But you put bigger springs in your passenger Berlingo. Rip out the seats. At what point does it become a van?

At the point the DVLA accept your reclassing paperwork (won’t ever happen)

From a mate who is a senior traffic rozzer:

A road should only have one limit. If there are speed signs and repeaters (small ones) then that applies..limits have precedence over national, it’s probably because those roads have changing limits along stretch or maybe set as a reminder as high collision routes.

Car derived van is simply down to what was type approved first.

There is at least one van derived car, but I can’t for the life of me remember what it was. It’s subject to van speed limits though. Might just be something obvious like a VW T but registered as a car and paying VED at that rate rather than as a commercial vehicle.

The Berlingo car ….has seats. Iirc it also has a lower pay load due to softer springs.

Other way arround actually, the Multispace gets the stiffer setup.

Although it’s possible that a Berlingo with seats could qualify as a Dual Purpose Vehicle, and thus be subject to the same speed limits as cars.

Dual purpose vehicle was a different thing, that was a tax dodge on company cars if they had a separate load area.

So a Berlingo wouldn’t fit it under any definition.

From a mate who is a senior traffic rozzer:

So if an 18-wheeler passes a (70) sign it’s OK for them to do 70 because it takes precendence?

If that’s what they’re asserting then I rather think your mate is as wrong as I was on the previous page.

From a mate who’s not a senior traffic officer. He’s talking shite.

It’s set around the vehicle limit. The 70 signs that appear on very few roads is to make it clear what the maximum is for cars and motorcycles.

Actually I’ve just reread that. Your mate is saying the same, that it’s there to remind people of the limit. Not that it’s the maximum for all vehicles. I’ll tell my mate.

A road should only have one limit.

That’s correct – the road has one limit – but the vehicles also have limits, and the lowest one counts.

Dual purpose vehicle was a different thing, that was a tax dodge on company cars if they had a separate load area.

So a Berlingo wouldn’t fit it under any definition.

The DPV may have been introduced as a tax dodge, but the legislation doesn’t say anything about that. I don’t have a Berlingo to check, but from specs and photos it appears to have an unladen weight less than 2040kg, a rigid roof, a row seats behind the driver that occupy at least 1/3 of the space, and windows in the back – so why would it not meet the legal definition of a DPV?

@ Drac

Thank you for retracting your aggressive and incorrect misinterpretation.

I’m 100% my buddy knows the traffic regs inside and out.
I asked him in order to assist the OP and for no other purpose.
You might want to take a deep breath and apply due consideration prior to posting next time.

Sometimes if you haven’t anything nice or meaningful to say, it’s best not to say anything at all! 😎

I apologise if I come across as aggressive that was not my intention. It’s literally how I speak when someone says something my errr mate thinks is bollocks. It’s pretty much a standard answer from me.

so why would it not meet the legal definition of a DPV?

Doesnt a DPV need a bulkhead? I thought that was the defining characteristic.

Hence a pickup is a DPV, but a Discovery (commercial version) isn’t.

@Drac

Cheers, no worries 😎

so why would it not meet the legal definition of a DPV?

Because it’s type approved and taxed as a car.

The dpv existed to get high emissions commercial vehicles into lower paying. Tax classes.for bik and contractors

Doesnt a DPV need a bulkhead?

Maybe it does. I’m not arguing that a Berlingo Multispace must be a DPV, just trying to understand why the legal definition doesn’t match the interpretation.

Because it’s type approved and taxed as a car.

Thanks – in that case the speed limit question is moot.

I think I’ve understood it now – the Berlingo car is in all respects a car, despite being derived from the van,
while the Van is a commercial van, because it came first, despite meeting the rest of the criteria for a car derived van. Apologies for being slow.

despite meeting the rest of the criteria for a car derived van.

Almost. But the MK3 Berlingo is over the 2t laden criteria for car derived van anyway.

The MK1 600kg I had previous was legally classed as car derived as it came in mid 1900kgs on the plates

I’m 100% my buddy knows the traffic regs inside and out.
I asked him in order to a

Either what your mate said, or how you’ve written it down though is wrong… (or at least wrong in how most people will interpret it). Is he saying I can tow my trailer at 70mph if the sign says (70) rather than (/) ?

So how it was explained to me on a Traffic Speed Awareness course 😉

On all roads except motorways:
Roads with Street Lights – 30 mph
Unlit Roads – National Speed Limit
UNLESS there is a red speed limit sign designating another limit which will be at regular intervals along the road.

Dual carriageways need a divider or barrier between the opposing directions. So you could have one lane in each direction. Or just a meter wide patch of grass for example. Another example 2 lanes each direction but with nothing dividing the opposing flow isn’t a dual carriageway.

Motorways are different basically 70 unless it says otherwise.

So if you’re on a lit dual carriageway you may see a 70 limit red circle black numbers.

Vehicle limits override any signed or national limits.

On all roads except motorways:
Roads with Street Lights – 30 mph
Unlit Roads – National Speed Limit
UNLESS there is a red speed limit sign designating another limit which will be at regular intervals along the road.

I don’t believe that this is right. It’s not just lit / unlit roads, rather the distance between them matters. In the absence of signage, irregularly lit roads are NSL.

In any case, it’s a reminder if you don’t know because you weren’t paying attention and there aren’t repeaters. The last sign you passed applies.

Dual carriageways [etc]

Correct.

Vehicle limits override any signed or national limits.

… whichever is lower.