benpinnick – Member
Well interestingly the non threaded versions have a wave spring on the drive side…. why the threaded versions don’t I cannot tell you.

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I’ve seen that. So one version comes pre-bodged whilst the other version leaves it up to the user to organise their own bodge!

Idiots.

No actual reason for the gap, though. Other than stupidity.

The gap is needed as its not a preloaded system, so one side needs to float in order to account for frame variances, otherwise you’d not be able to get a proper lock on the other side. Why the gap is the size it is however I cannot tell you, but I guess its what they decided was best.

That’s not a bad answer actually.

Then the insert should come in a variety of lengths to take up the gap in my opinion.

Preload system seems a much better option to me.

In terms of use, XX1 shifts quicker, more quietly, with lower force at trigger. It needs less fiddling once adjusted and bedded in. XTR has a more audible and ‘clunky’ feel and takes more force at the shifter to make changes. XTR has also needed more post- bed in adjustment.

I just can’t reconcile this with mine at all – my XTR is about the same age and has probably done a bit more mileage and I’ve not had to touch the drivetrain at all since the bike was new. Not even a single cable adjustment. In fact, I’m feeling a little guilty that I probably should
do more than just squirt some lube at the pivot points now and then! I can’t compare the force required, but when I last rode a SRAM setup (it wasn’t XX1) it felt far more agricultural to me.

One thing I’ve seen over the years is that bikes with split-outer gear cables always seem to need more mucking about than bikes with one piece outers, which always seem more robust to British weather. Mine is a one piece outer and could this explain the difference?

Like Northwind says 10 speed Shimano probably was the pinnacle for any companies groupset

🙂

At some point I’ll doubtless add some more gear range but right now both bikes are happily running 10 speed Shimano: Saint shifters, XT cranks and cassettes, SLX mechs (and KMC chains) and have been since 2012 and 2013 respectively.

GX Eagle looks pretty good!

I just ordered a Suntour 11-46, 10 speed cassette. Staying with 10 speed Shimano for the time being.

I feel Shimano have either missed the boat or are playing a completely different game.

I think it is simply that their focus is elsewhere. Di2 is destroying the competition in the road market. Every single stage of the 2017 TDF was won on a Shimano equipped bike.

Be interesting to see if they can bring electronic shifting successfully to the mtb market.

Be interesting to see if they can bring electronic shifting successfully to the mtb market.

I’ve seen it on mtb and it looks super smooth and all that but with 2 chainrings and a front mech using all the fancy electrics give you sequential shifts. Guess what it’s being done with 1x and for those complaining about SRAM prices
https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-xt-m8050-di2-11-speed-gear-kit-97476.html
is it going to be comparable – that is the 1x version so only half the fancy bits

I have been big on Shimano for a while, but recently started shifting over to Sram. I like the lever feel better actually, though I miss the double shift down from Shimano. I like DM better than spiders. The shop hasn’t had great luck with Level stuff yet, but we haven’t really seen any Guide issues. The two big things for me that pushed me towards SRAM is GX Eagle, and Shimanos lack of care for local shops. When large online retailers like CRC discount groups before they’re even released, how is a shop supposed to compete? And replacement parts. It feels shitty to “overcharge” a customer for something, but CRC is selling it for less than our shop can buy it wholesale. The kicker was when on FB Shimano claimed there was nothing they could do about it. Which is total horseshit. It hurts shops and devalues the brand. Also side swing fronts below XT are trash.

I can’t help but think all this electronic shifting thing is solving a problem that didn’t exist. It is RANGE that Shimano should be focusing on, and they can’t do that until they change their freehub bodies.

but when I last rode a SRAM setup (it wasn’t XX1) it felt far more agricultural to me.

I think those days are gone. Back with 9 spd, I’d definitely agree. 10spd SRAM were definitely getting smoother but with 11spd it’s just really slick.

One thing I’ve seen over the years is that bikes with split-outer gear cables always seem to need more mucking about than bikes with one piece outers, which always seem more robust to British weather. Mine is a one piece outer and could this explain the difference?

I couldn’t tell you TBH. Admittedly, the XX1 has always been used with a full continuous run of outer and the XTR not. However, I’m pretty anal about maintenance – so the cables are regularly lubed on both.

In my experience it’s a bit of a shame, I enjoyed previous XTR setups that I’d run for years. In fact, I still have a functioning 8spd M950 drivetrain from 1996!

I must say though, I’m glad you have found yours to be excellent – makes up a bit for my disappointment!

SRAM, i’m very happy my GX/sunrace set up as i was my X9 2×10 before. However as covered in this thread and some recent ones, the jockey wheels are and have been notoriously bad since forever…my GX one’s have seized and turned to mush already, just like my previous SRAM set up.

I would very much doubt the anythings changed with Eagle, and not too many 3rd party suppliers yet for the 14tooth top jockey wheel. I wouldn’t willing buy anything with sram bearings if i could avoid it.

When I got a bike with Sram gears on it I did notice a difference in Shifting. Shimano is better. I also noticed I had to keep replacing my rear mech as the B adjustment screw kept bending to about 45 degrees. Not sure if this is normal or I was just unlucky. I have changed to Shimano.

I had to keep replacing my rear mech as the B adjustment screw kept bending to about 45 degrees. Not sure if this is normal or I was just unlucky.

Id say not normal at all, trying to work out why that would be happening really (and why a bent screw needs a new mech – sram 11sp?)

SRAM, i’m very happy my GX/sunrace set up as i was my X9 2×10 before. However as covered in this thread and some recent ones, the jockey wheels are and have been notoriously bad since forever…my GX one’s have seized and turned to mush already, just like my previous SRAM set up.

I would very much doubt the anythings changed with Eagle, and not too many 3rd party suppliers yet for the 14tooth top jockey wheel. I wouldn’t willing buy anything with sram bearings if i could avoid it.
That’s OK, the XTR bearings are excellent quality and last forever. Sadly, the plastic jockey wheels themselves are made from soft, French cheese and last about 10 minutes. You’d have thought that by now, one of these companies would have sorted this out!

Im still on 10 speed, so very happy with bodged* shimano
(*oneup link on rear mech and a sunrace cassettes)

also tainted by my experiences with x7 & x9 sram that came on my 2015 bike, just made of cheese! and at the time way more expensive than far better slx or even deore.

New bike will probably come with sram, which im fine with (though seen a few mates & racers struggle with their Eagle after a few muddy races)
Prob switch to slx cranks though as Im still not convinced by them (& Ive never had much luck with raceface)

Not only that but SRAM is heavily supporting GXE in the aftermarket with very competitive pricing all things considered.

Very good point. And ultimately, a large chunk of where sales will be going.

I think it is simply that their focus is elsewhere. Di2 is destroying the competition in the road market. Every single stage of the 2017 TDF was won on a Shimano equipped bike.

Another very good point. There’s a reason Campag only dipped its toe into the MTB market and then retreated; there’s more roadies out there, and a lot of them aren’t afraid of spending money on shiny things.

I’ve run both over the last 20 years, several times.

Enjoyed the initial rapid-fire-shotgun-feel of the earlier SRAM gear, and haven’t felt the sublime ‘organic’ Shimano feel for years – probably since M739 / M950!

Now running a Saint/Zee/Sunrace 1×10 set up on recommendation. Sure, the shifter is nice, but I wish I could make every shift have that super slick ‘ooh that was so smooth I didnt even feel it changing’ shift on every attempt – but I’d guess that’s only 1 or 2 out of every 10 shifts I make.

Sad to see the negativity towards M8000, if they’d taken M785 and moved it forward it would be brilliant, instead, it seems they’ve taken 2 steps back.

SRAM X01 was very nice, and light, but I couldnt possibly justify it again over a cheaper 1×10 or possibly other 1×11 system.

My next move will likely be towards NX. 12sp does seem interesting too.

RE forks, the most bomb-proof reliable and solid performers i’ve had have always been RockShox – dabbled with older Fox’s but they did seem more fiddly and fragile.

Just about to receive a new Fox 29er though, so keen to see how the new Fit4 damper fairs.
TBF, im a heavy rider so I loose most of the small bump sensitivity you guys are used too – I suspect Fox would win here if I were able to set up at lower pressures.

Sad to see the negativity towards M8000, if they’d taken M785 and moved it forward it would be brilliant, instead, it seems they’ve taken 2 steps back.

I just don’t get this. I’ve been running M9000 and it’s been exquisite and this weekend built an M8000 bike and it was, honestly, the easiest setup I’ve ever done on a bike. Almost embarrassing really:

1. Set the high screw so the mech runs clean in the smallest sprocket with no cable attached
2. Pull the inner through, give it a bit of a pull and tighten up the pinch bolt with cable only finger tight
3. Test gears and be amazed to find that it’s perfectly indexed
4. Set the low screw and B screw
5. Make a tea.

Really, that was it. Not a single adjustment on the shifter. In the end, I did adjust it half a turn to get the mech perfectly aligned on the sprockets, but it would have been completely fine without.

My son was riding it this weekend and having jumped straight on it, didn’t have a single missed gear or fluffed change. With the 30-42 ratio on 26″ wheels, I swear he can ride up the side of the house now 🙂

If it stays like this (and my experience of Shimano is that this is usually the case) then I don’t see how this could be bettered, tbh.

good to hear, and I concur, set up is easier than ever on most systems these days.

But ive read too many negative reports about brake reliability on M8000 for it to not be an issue. In fact, some magazine reviews just state that they cannot recommend them for the amount of trouble they’ve had (including XTR).

Conversly, just bled my M785s last week – despite the required old school bleed nipple tweak it was an absolute doddle.

But ive read too many negative reports about brake reliability on M8000 for it to not be an issue. In fact, some magazine reviews just state that they cannot recommend them for the amount of trouble they’ve had (including XTR).

I can’t defend that bit – my first set of M9000 brakes had to be warrantied (sticky master cylinder), but the replacements are working just lovely now. I guess there’s nothing to stop people running different brakes with the XT/XTR drivetrain, but I’m very fond of the feel of the Shimano brakes. And for kids, the tiny little levers are brilliant for small fingers – both of my kids run some form of the new-design Shimano levers for this reason.

My old Hope 4-pots didn’t have to be touched for 5 years, but their replacement (E4) had to be serviced at least annually or the pistons would stick in the calipers. In fact, for most of the time I had them, there was at least one sticky piston out of the eight on the bike.

Yeah, I ran Guide RSC’s which felt lovely with globs of modulation, but there’s something very satisfying about that Shimano ‘bang! brakes on!!’ feel.

I think it is simply that their focus is elsewhere. Di2 is destroying the competition in the road market. Every single stage of the 2017 TDF was won on a Shimano equipped bike.

Be interesting to see if they can bring electronic shifting successfully to the mtb market.

I agree. The problem is that so far the DI2 for mtb has suffered from woeful reliability issues with many people having problems with it. As a result Shimano are struggling with narrower range cassettes, and DI2 that doesnt work well enough for MTB and is of questional benefit for those running 1x setups

I just don’t get this. I’ve been running M9000 and it’s been exquisite and this weekend built an M8000 bike and it was, honestly, the easiest setup I’ve ever done on a bike. Almost embarrassing really:

Same here. The M8000 I built up was brilliant; sooo much less faffy than the 10 spd with booster and One-Up cage. The smoothing seems as slick as ever too. However I’ve not used SRAM for a few years – maybe it’s time to.

TBF I’ve not used M8000 brakes for a while as the bike with them on is on holiday. However it seems SRAM have stepped up their game which, again to be fair, they needed to.

What all this says to me though is that it’s good, healthy competition. I’m very pro-Shimano (long story), but one of the best things SRAM have done is give them a bloody good shock but proving to be good competitors. If this means Shimano sit up and take notice again, maybe improve the reliability of their brakes, make SLX the privateer groupset of choice or whatever, then brilliant – we, the end user, is the winner.

I would very much doubt the anythings changed with Eagle, and not too many 3rd party suppliers yet for the 14tooth top jockey wheel…

We are saved from SRAM’s horrid jockey wheels hurrah!

CeramicSpeed Adds 14t Pulley Upgrade For SRAM Eagle

Except those jockey wheels are more than my entire drive-train cost me,…jesus.

I haven’t used SRAM for sometime after some bad experiences with brakes and drivetrain on two or three bikes we have owned in the family so when the road bike I was looking at came with SRAM only I had doubts. However everything I read recently was telling me SRAM was much improved so I took the plunge and bought it. No, SRAM is still crap, scraping brakes, rubber mechs and clunky shifters. Cassettes however are fine

dragon – Member

I think it is simply that their focus is elsewhere. Di2 is destroying the competition in the road market.

Certainly true but Di2 as a hero product seems a lot less succesful than Sram 1×11 and now 1×12- Shimano are winning at a top end narrow niche while SRAM romp the middle ground and sell kabillions of things to OEMs.

I thought it was ok until I took the lid of a gx shifter to release a bent cable, bloody thing exploded into million pieces.

Certainly true but Di2 as a hero product seems a lot less succesful than Sram 1×11 and now 1×12- Shimano are winning at a top end narrow niche while SRAM romp the middle ground and sell kabillions of things to OEMs.

Again, road vs. MTB.

Road market is substantially larger. Roadies spends lots on top kit.

Pimpmaster Jazz – Member

Road market is substantially larger. Roadies spends lots on top kit.

Sure, but di2 is still a small minority product. I don’t think SRAM would swap winning at 11 and 12 speed for winning at electric road shifting