Without becoming too embroiled in something which quite clearly I no longer understand ( I have worked from home for the last 10 years ) ..things have certainly become more “fragile” since I was involved in an office environment..I ran two businesses employing female support staff in a fairly high pressure sales environment where big egos in terms of sales personnel were very much to the fore ..
Not a hint of a complaint was heard from either side with the women giving as good as they got ..
Maybe they werent as fragile back then .
In terms of what I have read on this thread ..the article which Hammyuk posted a little earlier was interesting as it was written by a woman ..and the person who is articulating my own take on this ..way way better than I ever could is GrahamS.
Well Done sir ..

Drac – Moderator
or whatever the Spice Girls said.
Girl Power!

Meaning women no longer being dominated by men and standing against it, such as sexual harassment.

Thanks for mansplaining ‘Girl Power’ for me, I wasn’t so aware of its deeper meaning. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for mansplaining ‘Girl Power’ for me, I wasn’t so aware of its deeper meaning. Keep up the good work.

Well when you seem to think it was the same as growing a set I felt the need to clarify it for you so you’re very welcome.

Apologies for the non-pc language but you’re mental mate.

Just popped into work for half an hour.

A male Kashmiri is currently giving a female Nigerian a head massage.

Who should I call, the Daily Mail or the United Nations?

Edited as probably too much info for a Sunday morning.
🙂

Junky do you have children?

The relevance of this answer to your behaviour should be fascinating to hear – I lack the superior intelligence to see the relevance and it looks like a smokescreen sidestep to this dullard.

I was applying Onions 1st Law.

Its worth applying[ and I do it much much more now] especially when its ambiguous but i think the benefit of the doubt left the building some while ago with this charmer.
IMHO he appears to have issues- it might just be a shit sense of humour 😉

Decent discussion – I am surprised 😉

A couple of points – I am not confused about my role in this. I did the wrong thing mainly by misreading the signals. IE after the arm touching incident I should have taken more note of the scornful expression and had the emotional intelligence to then not make the shoulder massage offer. Clearly me in the wrong.

Compare this to an incident that happened to me a few years earlier when I was the subject of comments on my appearance that made me very uncomfortable ( I was made to walk past a group of women who all were discussing the shape of my bum) I had the personal power to stand up to them and I really gave them a telling off for it despite them being senior to me. End of incident because they realised that they were wrong and acknowledged it. In the case in the OP the woman involved did not have feel she had the personal power / confidence to do the same to me.

Another incident recently with a male student nurse. Big powerful bloke in his late 20s. 3 different young nurses came to me and told me he had been too touchy feely. At his interim placement meeting he was officially told to be careful of peoples personal space. Unofficially I took him aside and discussed it with him. He vehemently denied it. I think he had been being friendly in intent and not even realising what he was doing. However if 3 people all tell me the same story I believe them. He started off saying this needs to be an official investigation. I pointed out that he really didn’t need an official investigation and my conversation with him was “man to man” to give him some advice. He changed his behaviour

Edit – and hopefully he learnt from this and learned to keep his hands to himself. I believe he did. Part of the chat I described the events in the OP to show how what we intend may not be how its seen and how careful men in nursing have to be

Quiet morning at Waitrose today Rusty? 😆

Which Waitrose? And do I just ask for rusty?

🙂

Direct payment chaps, form a queue.

What size does sir require?
Be honest now or it’ll get messy.

Can I interest you in a matching bag?

They always leak, just get a catheter in.

Interested to know from some of the no touching people do you openly encourage your young children to refrain from being touchy feely with the piers at school. Or does the no touching rule come in at puberty or just restrict it to the work place.

No – the real reason was I thought it an interesting point for discussion from me having been accused of sexual harassment.

Bah…. I was accused of rape. Was shunned by my family and had a cloud hanging over my head for 5 months until the girl fessed up to my cousin that she had consented.

We were caught doing the horizontal tango behind a bouncy castle.

Interested to know from some of the no touching people do you openly encourage your young children to refrain from being touchy feely with the piers at school.

We are the touching type (and we’re non-coastal 😉 ) so our approach has been to encourage understanding of consent and have the PANTS talk.

Our kids are very free with hugs and caring strokes for peers and others. I like that.

IMHO he appears to have issues- it might just be a shit sense of humour

Everyone has issues Junky. I’ve been very open about mine to the point of ridicule.

As I’ve got older I’ve come to the realisation that the main point in life, the pathway through which the most meaning and value is derived, is having children and and being a good parent.

All this other stuff we bicker about and debate (and which leads to a lot of mudslingjng and back biting) is just stuff we make up for our entertainment. Ultimately being a good parent is all that really matters. When I’m tucking my boys up and reading them a story and they put their arms around me and tell me they love me, that’s when the whole point of life and all it’s injustices and fubars cease to relevant and the pain goes away.

If you have kids Junky you’ll understand that. If you don’t then You won’t. That’s why I asked.

chip – Member
They always leak, just get a catheter in.

It won’t leak if you stop fiddling with it.

chip – Member

They always leak, just get a catheter in.

They don’t leak if you measure ’em properly and once fitted give it a really good squeeze 😉

alpin: Jesus that’s rough. Was she being malicious or just embarrassed/defensive?

It’s something that gives me a moments ponder when people talk about “always believing the victims”.

What they really mean (I hope) is “always take allegations seriously” – though in the age of trial by (social) media, the burden of proof does seem to be slipping.

Related: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/does-an-allegation-equate-to-guilt

True TJ, true.
Nice air gap and don’t get kinky with your hose.
😀

😉

I must have a magic penis, it changes in stature like the wind, it can go from respectable to pitiful and back again. 😀

Interested to know from some of the no touching people do you openly encourage your young children to refrain from being touchy feely with the piers at school. Or does the no touching rule come in at puberty or just restrict it to the work place.

Just in work. Outside of work I’m quite a huggy, tactile person.

needs my delicate touch chips 😉

Responding to the OP’s original post, I don’t think I have ever put my hand on anybody at work. Personally, I find people who put their hand on the back or arms of subordinates in particular are doing so as a way of reinforcing their superiority. We had a CEO who would do it whilst partly congratulating you on good work but more obviously asking for a lot more work to silly deadlines. He was a ****.

As for offering a massage, I would never ‘go there’ – it really isn’t worth the aggravation even if you are a qualified masseur in your spare time and know it would help.

In a work context I’d much rather be rewarded for going over and above with some more pay or some time off in lieu rather than a patronising touch on the forearm, thank you very much.

It’s a strange world were are in at the moment, where the most powerful man in the world was elected despite the fact he can boast of grabbing woman inappropriately, but the average man has to seriously think about putting an arm round a work colleague even he has know her years if she was upset.

On the flip side though, as a glass collector in a bar as a youth i was fondled and man-handled more times than i can remember, when i wore an army uniform for some reason many ladies felt that was a sign to say i’d like to just be grabbed however they wanted and even on my bike i’ve had a lady of more mature years lean out of her car window to stroke my thigh and make a few comments, as a man you are expected to laugh these things off (and i did), but it does make you think why is that OK?

“What is wrong with women these days ?
What men should do is completely ignore them and see how long it is before they start questioning themselves as to what is wrong / have I suddenly become unattractive”

Oh that already happens, on Friday night I found myself in our buildings bar, where two women, one a red head who looked liked Laura Prepon when she had red hair – and a brunette, got pretty drunk….and then yanked my arm and had me dance with them. Didn’t ask for it and didn’t want it.

Because:

A) Married (morals, loyalty etc) and rumour travels fast in our building even if your intentions are innocent.

B) They were drunk and I am not going down on charges of being a pervert.

So now I’m gay apparently, and now I’m having to fend off the questions of the resident dandys. I jest, but I’m pretty irritated by the whole thing, if I’d yanked a woman on to the dance floor like that I’d have been dragged back to my room by the concierge.

Also, welcome back to the 1920s – the hairstyles back, the taste in booze is back, the clothes are back and soon the chaperones will be as well!

Tom while I wrote the comment you quoted above ..you missed off the bit of my original post right at the end ..which said ..” A quote “
There was a very good reason for that as the ” quote ” was not from myself but the person I was discussing this thread with at the time …my wife.

@gt
Yes I have kids yes they are the most important thing but I am not sure what the point is in stating that ,its a given for everyone , and absolutely irrelevant to this debate or my views on this subject

Like you I decided to not pass on the harm that was done to me and it stopped with me. I carried* the burden of my childhood and I dont repeat it with my kids. Still not relevant to this discussion.

* glad I put the past tense there[ not through effort] but it will never be entirely true

I wasn’t taking issue with your quote.

I was talking to a very old friend of mine from 6th form, she’s 30 now – attractive but single. She managed to spend the conversation complaining about men like Weinstein, but then complained about the man she was seeing because he’s too soft, sensitive and not direct enough. I tried to get her to reconcile her opinions of Weinstein and the current man she was seeing, but her retort was “Where have all the decent men gone, the ones that aren’t soft but aren’t Weinsteins”.

I gave up at that point. I’d add that she is a fan of 50 Shades of Grey as well.

Whatever the positive outcomes from ‘Girl Power’, I will need a lot of convincing that this was not just a cynical marketing approach to get young girls to buy pop CD’s.

Tom_W1987 – Member
I wasn’t taking issue with your quote.

I was talking to a very old friend of mine from 6th form, she’s 30 now – attractive but single. She managed to spend the conversation complaining about men like Weinstein, but then complained about the man she was seeing because he’s too soft, sensitive and not direct enough. I tried to get her to reconcile her opinions of Weinstein and the current man she was seeing, but her retort was “Where have all the decent men gone, the ones that aren’t soft but aren’t Weinsteins”.

I gave up at that point. I’d add that she is a fan of 50 Shades of Grey as well.

POSTED 6 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

That’s not really about sex, though. That’s more to do with control. She sounds like a high maintenance nightmare who will end up being single, having brief but unsatisfactory/bad relationships and spending the gaps in between wondering why….. 🙄

Tom ..I got that you weren’t taking issue with the quote .
Stating that my missus said that was to align my thinking to yours and also to show that not all women are so delicate as to cry wolf at the slightest physical interaction ..her way of saying from a woman’s point of view that they need to grow a pair

slightest physical interaction ..her way of saying from a woman’s point of view that they need to grow a pair

That’s what I said, got told off for it.

Yes I have kids yes they are the most important thing but I am not sure what the point is in stating that ,its a given for everyone , and absolutely irrelevant to this debate or my views on this subject

It’s something we can both agree on. It’s something that we can observe in each other and conclude that that person is a good person. It’s something that can cut through the whole gender political BS that defines quite a bit (but definitely not all or even the majority) of the issue we are discussing.

This and the other related threads have been, at times, truly vile places with lots of things said that are personal attacks (and mine to Scotroutes was done in direct response to just such an attack).

So what’s the relevance? It’s the thing that stops the nastiness and brings us back to our senses.

Love you buddy. Whatever else gets said, I know you must be a good person.

giantalkali
That’s what I said, got told off for it.

It’s the new rules – you have to be wearing a skirt to get away with that sort of comment.

It’s the new rules – you have to be wearing a skirt to get away with that sort of comment

True the Scots get away with all kinds of anti-English comments but any hint of the other way round and down comes the hammer inappropriately

says the man who used to say sweaty scots all the time

You have become a parodoy account these days

I tried to get her to reconcile her opinions of Weinstein and the current man she was seeing

What is there to reconcile?
Weinstein is not “direct”. He’s accused of being a rapist.