Scotland Indyref 2

That’s interesting Jim; how old are you? It’s just because Settler Watch were active in 1992-3,had two cells; one in “oil country” and a married couple in Dumfries. Even the parent group( since you brought them up as an example of anti English sentiment) can’t get more than a couple of dozen to their annual flag burning. I am curious as to where you saw the graffiti as my ex-wife was in Edinburgh at the time and I never saw a single example,either of that or her posh Welsh accent,which sounded English creating problems for her.They also hate all ethnic minorities,so to say they are a specific anti English group is incorrect. I would also question the specific targeting of English tourists/people in Edinburgh;do you have any factually accurate evidence, rather than opinion?

Nobody has said on here that it doesnt exist. They have said it isn’t the reason for an independence movement, which is a claim trotted out on here.

Since we are doing Scottish history….burning a union flag at Culloden…REALLY?

I do wonder about it when people say things like “Every English person living in Scotland has experienced ant-English racism at some point.” I lived in England for about a year and if you asked me if I experienced anti-Scottish racism I would say no.

If you asked me if I got the piss taken out of me for my funny accent, aggressiveness, drunkenness, heroin addiction, love of deep fried mars bars, etc then yes, if you wanted to reach that conclusion you could say that I experienced a lot of anti-Scottish racism.

As far as Anyone But England goes that’s completely justified. If the English had to listen to coverage of every sports event that only talked about it from a French perception then they’d very soon be saying Anyone But France.

BruceWee – Member
…As far as Anyone But England goes that’s completely justified…

That’s a wider phenomenon than just Scotland. I’ve heard it from Irish and Welsh people.

It’s common in the antipodes too, and maybe in other ex-colonies.

Maybe it’s more of a reaction to the way English sports teams get bigged up far beyond their actual capabilities, followed by the excuses.

You’ll find some racism in any sufficiently large group of people. It certainly exists in Scotland, and anti-english sentiment is a part of it.

However, it’s not linked to Scots Nationalism to any significant degree. The latter is far more to do with the wish for self-determination of a nation state, than the ethnic origins or skin colour of those living there. Frankly, considering things like the Poll Tax experiment which the English imposed on Scotland, I’m surprised there isn’t more anti-english sentiment. Maybe that’s long ago enough that people have forgotten.

I do wonder about it when people say things like “Every English person living in Scotland has experienced ant-English racism at some point.” I lived in England for about a year and if you asked me if I experienced anti-Scottish racism I would say no.

oddly, and quite surprisingly, the only proper anti english comment I’ve had, outwith banter, is when I started my PhD. chatting to some of the undergrad students and one asked if I was Australian, I said no, I’m from worcestershire, to which she replied ‘oh, your one of them’. It was serious too, I thought she was joking, but she refused to speak to me after that.

I blamedthe previous nights run of braveheart..

Other than that, the Scots have been more than welcoming.

For a comparison on racism in Scotland and England, there is an easy test.

Go to the Daily Express/Mail, find an article that mentions Scotland and independence and read the comments. The comments are not couched in logical terms to put it politely.

Now do the same in a Scottish paper and see if the comments are unpleasant about the English. Just about any time that happens someone pulls them up, but it’s rare anyway.

Try it and see.

Why would Scotland want to be shackled to a country with that attitude so prevalent to us?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/10/brexit-vote-paves-way-for-federal-union-says-all-party-group

Ahem

Stop detailing the remoaners brexishambles thread,
Tho obviously indyref2 is only a possibility thanks to that

But it seems to be ever more likely

Judging by the applause on QT for oakshot many Brexiters in England think that hard Brexit is the way forward, either way Scotland is fuct IMHO, just like the rest of Britain

It’s just which is the least worst option

The easy bit is to start by ruling our the disaster scenarios.

1. become a smalii indepeiendent (sic) member of the Euro Zone

The ultimate folly, and yet exactly what the Nicky Narcissist has in mind. “I only want what is in my best long term interests and bugger the people of Scotland”

I will satisfy the entry criteria by outdoing the filthy English with their austerity and then give up control of our fiscal and monetary policy. It’s called “INDEPENDENCE”……..no really!!!! C’mon fellow English haters this is the way forward – “Advance!”

exactly what the Nicky Narcissist has in mind

OF FFS his name calling has started already and from the man who says we should never ever play the man [sic].
Facepalm

Just disagree with her without the childish name calling.

teamhurtmore – Member

The ultimate folly, and yet exactly what the Nicky Narcissist has in mind.

Care to support this assertion? Are you still basing this entirely on that interview you linked before, when she said it would be discussed but “It is not the SNP’s policy to seek entry to the euro now or at any time in the foreseeable future.”, which in THM-world meant she wants to join the euro?

She’s a one that fish women eh.

Having been told No to independence, she now insists another vote y’no just in case the intellectual have changed
thier minds.

Awe, got to feel sorry for Scotlandshire.

As one person said on QT last night, “is it best of three?”

NW, we will await her new currency solution then, they screwed up last time by their own admission – sounds a bit like Brexiteers with their ill-thought out nonsense. Are you brave enough to have a Scottish pound?

“Its not SNP policy to have a credible policy over a future currency.” Ends and means….

her new currency solution then, they screwed up last time by their own admission –

Still peddling the same lies despite being caught out on it previously?

Having been told No to independence, she now insists another vote y’no just in case the intellectual have changed thier minds.

Wouldn’t worry about that – inspired by Brexit and Trump this campaign will be aimed squarely at the dumbest end of the electorate

You’ve got to admire THM tbh, he can claim one second that Sturgeon is definitely pro-euro, “The ultimate folly, and yet exactly what the Nicky Narcissist has in mind.” and then without missing a beat when pulled up for it and for the childish name-calling, just move onto the next thing as if it never happened. And yet half his posts in this thread are going to be about dishonesty. Hate does funny things to people.

You are a card Scottie. Lies indeed 😀

Just listen to what Stiglitz said and read his new book on your future currency!!! He will have banked his fees and retired but the time your future generation have to deal with the consequences.

SNP are so lucky to have people who continue to swallow this guff. Tartan blindfolds all round.

3 Jackson’s Entry – the birthplaceof #posttruthpolitics

this campaign will be aimed squarely at the dumbest end of the electorate

Hence why we are debating it 😉

Its not unreasonable to reconsider the issue in light of the massive changes for scotland to remain in the union due to Brexit
That this change is against the will of the Scottish exacerbates this need

TBH any leader who did not explore this would be remiss in their duties but clearly the SNP is politically motivated on this issue and will seize any opportunity
Brexit just handed them a massive one.

Keep denying NW. Any honest person knows that she has admitted considering the Euro. There is no other option other than proper independence and your own currency and she is rightly scared of that.

#tartanblindfold – see no evil, hear no evil, speak lots of it 😉

I haven’t seen much in the way of demonstrable evidence that Scotland could actually stay in the EU without first exiting and then the timeframe and process of how we would get back in. Call me cynical but haven’t we been down this road of empty promises of a promised land. As a country we are in recession and our economy heavily relies on being part of a United Kingdom. I voted no when it was about heart not head, I’d prefer our government to focus on what it was elected to do, run the country not concentrate on this but it is what it is. Personally I think if we have a Indy vote and we vote to leave we will have 10 miserable years of poor economic outlook and sadly the lower classes will suffer as it’s no small matter that tax take will reduce and services will decline. That’s my opinion.

The SNP know they wouldn’t win another Referendum now so they don’t want one. Their goal is to pass legisation allowing them to call one as and when they want. They can do that in isolation but it will have not be binding as was the last one. It’s all for show, as usual.

As Alex said it was a “once in a lifetime” chance, 2 years to make the case. The SNP failed

It’s a bit like £350m, don’t worry about the truth, juts keep the lies in people’s minds and ultimately they will fall for it. The long war of attrition.

It’s all for show, as usual.

its really not they want independence and its their prime objective

As for only for show it will be hard to ignore a vote to leave and argue its not binding whilst arguing the Uk one , which is also non binding re the EU, is a binding one.
I am sure you will be able to do this mind as a lack of consistency is something you excel in

Of course they are playing politics they are politicians with an agenda and exploiting the scenario to try and achieve their main goal

I am not sure whether we should admire them or criticise them for this but its hardly a uniquely SNP thing

Late to this thread, read it until page 7 then realised it was 3 months old, I would comment as follows.

1)They, Scottish Politicians, should at least have the good manners, common sense, to wait until they know what it is they will actually be leaving, they’d look pretty sick if the UK strikes the deal it really wants (cake & eat it).
2)There is no chance they’d be allowed to remain/rejoin the EU/single market, Spain would never permit it.

3)Are they not running a massive fiscal deficit? They’d have to use sterling, they’d have a lot of trouble floating their own currency, bitcoin maybe, but I doubt even the bastards at Goldman Sachs could offer them a similar Greek cookbook to fix their accounts, so they’d remain tied to us but without the benefits.

4)I never really understood why the want to self govern, especially now since they’re helping to govern us, 56 of the buggers from a 1.6million vote aint exactly fair and proper, but they’re here and vote on stuff they shouldn’t at the drop of a hat if they can cause a nuisance to the party we elected.

They are acting like spoilt children, the referendum was clearly only permitted on the basis it was a one time only vote and common sense prevailed, they have reaped the benefits of devolution and have devo plus with all those SNP folk at Westminster, why not quit whilst you’re ahead, always the way with Scots give them an inch and they’ll take the arm that gie em it.

I’m of the view that the vote should be given to the entire nation wether it wants to allow bits to break away, I don’t recall voting on the devolution thing that just got slipped in there by Blair wasn’t it, he has such a lot to answer for.

teamhurtmore – Member

Keep denying NW. Any honest person knows that she has admitted considering the Euro.

You see what I mean?
THM says: “The ultimate folly, and yet exactly what the Nicky Narcissist has in mind.”
I respond : “she said it would be discussed”
and THM inexplicably goes from this to:
“Any honest person knows that she has admitted considering the euro.”

So- by his own admission I’m honest, because I said she’s considering it, and he is dishonest, because he claimed it was definitely her plan. And somehow this becomes “Keep denying NW.” It’s not healthy tbh.

The SNP know they wouldn’t win another Referendum now so they don’t want one.

Correct

Their goal is to pass legisation allowing them to call one as and when they want.

Correct

They can do that in isolation but it will have not be binding as was the last one. It’s all for show, as usual

What are you going to do should they win, send the troops in?

You know, these allegations of a BBC bias may have something to them …. 😆

What are you going to do should they win, send the troops in?

wait for Shetland to go for an Indyref

So if it is all about democracy, as the SNP claim, if there is Indyref2 and the Scottish Borders along with Dumfries & Galloway vote no again does this mean we stay as part of the UK?

Do the borders or d&g have their own parliament?

Do the borders or d&g have their own parliament?

Aye at Westminster!

No point in SNP harping on about Scotland’s vote re Brexit then ignoring the vote of those in areas who (possibly) vote twice to remain in the UK.

If areas want to secede from an independent Scotland that’d be up to them I reckon. There’s obviously a difference between voting to remain in the UK along with the whole country, and voting to secede, though. But if there was a genuine movement for it then it’s hard to see how a future independent scottish government could deny it really.

jambalaya – Member
The SNP know they wouldn’t win another Referendum now so they don’t want one. Their goal is to pass legisation allowing them to call one as and when they want. They can do that in isolation but it will have not be binding as was the last one. It’s all for show, as usual.

Brexit has set the standard, referendums are binding, whether they are legally binding or not.

selkirkbear – Member
Do the borders or d&g have their own parliament?
Aye at Westminster!

No point in SNP harping on about Scotland’s vote re Brexit then ignoring the vote of those in areas who (possibly) vote twice to remain in the UK.

i’m perfectly happy for toryville to remain part of the UK. 😆 crack on.

Personally I’d prefer an independent of state of glesga and the surrounding areas.

Chookterville is no concern of mine! 😆

No, Westminster is (supposed to be) the parliament for the UK. The Scottish Parliament is the parliament for, wait for it, Scotland. I’m sure you understand the point but there’s a big difference between a country and a region. To take your argument to its logical conclusion why don’t we all just decide as individuals if we’re going to be independent or not. Hey, that’s a thought. Then maybe someone could tally up all those decisions (let’s call them “votes”) and see what the majority consensus is.

i’m perfectly happy for toryville to remain part of the UK. crack on.

Personally I’d prefer an independent of state of glesga and the surrounding areas.

Chookterville is no concern of mine!

You’d need your passport to visit any of the 7 Stanes 😀

….and see what the majority consensus is

Totally agree. Just making the point that the SNP shouldn’t try to use the votes of a minority, how Scotland voted in UK Brexit vote, to make a case for Indyref2.

Just making the point that the SNP shouldn’t try to use the votes of a minority, how Scotland voted in UK Brexit vote, to make a case for Indyref2.

it was a majority vote

DO you mean it was less than 50% of those who could vote?
If that is the case then they are also allowed to ignore the indy ref 1 vote as that also did not meet that threshold of 50% of all voters so they can ignore that
Its pretty strange to argue a govt should ignore the majority wish of its population be it the leaving the EU or the remain in the UK union

Which matters most? Who knows lets have a vote on it to see
IMHO its obvious this is a substantial change to remaining in the union and its not unreasonable to ask the populace which they prefer
WIthout the brexit vote what you say is true

It’s probably safe to assume that the vast majority of the anti-independence / anti-SNP posts on here come from English residents. Perhaps quite understandably, you’re all mostly missing the point – there are so many deep and fundamental differences between England and Scotland that are driving the independence desire / debate up here. I for one do not understand the English Brexit viewpoint “let’s take back our sovereignty and control immigration”. The EU laws that we all have to abide by are hardly onerous or causing deep damage to our lives. EU immigration is not a problem. If the Westminster government seriously wanted to spread the wealth then immigration would be spread over the entire country rather than concentrated in the south east. In Scotland we are comfortable with sharing some common laws in order to gain advantage. English people still seem to have an “empire” mentality whereby nobody should rule over us. Independence is coming because our two countries are growing apart.

No the english like unions they dominate and control and dont like ones where they are only a member

Hence why they dislike the EU and love the UK