Bruce - carry on, it most be very nice to love is a blissful world where reality merely passes you buy. Enjoy it.
I think what's passing you by in your blissful enlightenment is that when you call everything you don't agree with post-truth politics you yourself are playing a kind of post-truth politics.
So, once again, can you use google and that big old brain of yours to copy and paste a statement from the last seven days from Nicola Sturgeon or any other member of the Scottish government that is so blantantly false (something like "we send £350 million a week to the EU" or "I'm going to build a wall and I'm going to get Mexico to pay for it" will do) so that we can see that you actually have a case for calling post-truth politics and not just trying to write off every argument without actually having to justify yourself.
And no, your interpretation or saying what they really meant doesn't count. Find an actual quote.
Carry on Bruce, I would hate to disturb your state of bliss. Enjoy
(p.s. putting the interests of the people of Scotland first)
So it's post-truth politics to say "putting the interests of the people of Scotland first" because according to [i]your interpretation[/i] she's not putting the interests of the people of Scotland first?
Surely it must be dawning on you now that you don't actually know what post-truth politics is and you are just saying it because it makes you sound clever without actually having to justify anything.
Carry on Bruce. Your state of bliss is awesome. Enjoy.
(p.s. the Scottish government - remember it - have pointed out her nonsense, but don't let that get in the way. Ends and means, ends and means)
see aracer this is what he prefers to do rather than deliver his wisdomCarry on Bruce, I would hate to disturb your state of bliss. Enjoy
edit: ah he did more as i typed
Carry on Bruce. Your state of bliss is awesome. Enjoy.
So.... are we agreeing you're full of shit? I'm not as smart as you so it's difficult for me to keep up sometimes.
Edit for your edit:
(p.s. the Scottish government - remember it - have pointed out her nonsense, but don't let that get in the way. Ends and means, ends and means)
Like I said, copy and paste an actual quote because you can't call post truth politics based on your interpretation of what she said.
genuine question , but is Scotland dependant on rest of the union financially or could it balance the books ( same deficit level as everyone else obviuosly ) on it own ?
Well we agree. Dont bother, as I said, much nicer to enjoy the state of bliss. I would far rather live in that kind of wonderland. It would be much nicer than reality which is really
or could it balance the books ( same deficit level as everyone else obviuosly ) on it own ?
😀
So does that mean you're not going to use words you don't know the meaning of anymore?
No it means I would encourage you to carry on in your state of bliss. I only wish I could experience the same. Enjoy.
To her credit though, dear Nicola is playing a canny game by pretending she is keen on another vote (keep the sheep happy) while being scared of the same (keep reality at bay). Smart cookie.
cchris2lou
Average of the recent past - easily. In the future - I'm not worried. Right now? A nice big fat deficit. too big. depends to an extent on separation terms tho.
Are we getting the usual mix of condescension and ignorance spiced with a tinge of racism from the usual suspects? I haven't read the whole thread.
We Scots can run our own country and overcome all the real and imaginary difficulties that our colonial masters are chucking up.
Just like every country that has gained independence from the UK has - and even those that have run into real difficulties prefer that to coming back under the UK umbrella.
But I doubt we could manage such a royal ****up as the Tories have just managed, so maybe that disqualifies us.
I don't care about the BS, I just want us to take back control of our country.
Mmm, where have I heard that before....?
BTW well said Ben.
Alex was happy to renage on debt - so you had no deficit - no really!
Welcome to fantasy land
Sturgeon is completely out of her depth. She is pandering to the vocal minority who are putting nationalism before sensibility. Unfortunately for the Jocks, most of the English don't give a toss and will be pleased to see em go.
Are we getting the usual mix of condescension and ignorance spiced with a tinge of racism from the usual suspects? I haven't read the whole thread.
Yup.
Ignorance for sure. The SNP relies on it. See no evil, hear no evil...
Reality versus rhetoric
Reality versus rhetoric
Those in glass houses...
No it means I would encourage you to carry on in your state of bliss. I only wish I could experience the same. Enjoy.
You're having trouble achieving a state of bliss?
That's strange, it sounds like you're very sure of yourself and have complete faith in your views. Surely it must be quite blissful to not have to re-evaluate your thinking all the time.
I am and do, but reality is nowhere near as fun as fantasy land
It would be great to avoid reality and wander along in la la land
Real life is really rather a downer esp at the moment
[quote=Junkyard ]see aracer this is what he prefers to do rather than deliver his wisdom
I think I agree with you - and I wish he'd stop because he has so much to add to this thread. I'm kind of hoping that complimenting him in this way might be more likely to persuade him to change than you lot just arguing back at him all the time (which I'm inclined to think just encourages him).
I didn't mention in my previous post that at best I'm skimming most of his posts or simply ignoring others - not because they upset me, just because I CBA.
SOH aracer SOH
The whole thing is so absurd - except for the poor folk who are taken in by this stuff, they are screwed - that you have to have some fun from it. It's too far from reality to be taken seriously.
I really would be able to ignore reality - it really must be fun. I am genuinely envious of Bruce.
I am and do, but reality is nowhere near as fun as fantasy landIt would be great to avoid reality and wander along in la la land
Real life is really rather a downer esp at the moment
You're saying that never having to change your thinking is actually a bit of a downer?
If it's such a problem maybe you should try to engage others in conversation thus opening your mind up to new ideas. New ideas might help you become less of a downer.
Great idea Bruce. From now on I will agree that politicians are working in my best interests. Honestly.
Wow this is fun...
The trouble is THM, your SOH often violates Wheaton's Law - I'm assuming you're not really aware of that, so just trying to point it out in a friendly manner.
Are we getting the usual mix of condescension and ignorance spiced with a tinge of racism from the usual suspects?
Yes, of course we are. Unfortunately xenophobia towards Scotland and Scots in general is perfectly acceptable to those running the forum. That's the vibe I am picking up anyway. This place is toxic.
Too kind - still kept the bottle of Amarone company and graham nortons over now. Sleep well - looking forward to the new dreams
Km - everyone loves you guys that's why we are desperate not to lose you
Great idea Bruce. From now on I will agree that politicians are working in my best interests. Honestly.Wow this is fun...
Did someone tell you politicians are working in your best interests?
Normally someone has to tell you something before you can agree or not. That's how it works, you see. Someone says something and if you agree you say, "Mm, yes, quite right" and if you don't agree then you say, "Well actually, I think....".
It helps if you can try to be polite. If you aren't polite then sometimes people will get annoyed and verbally slap you around a bit.
Bruce relax. Forums are like politics (and the SNP). Should never be taken seriously. Still it's been educational. Thanks
I didn't realise you weren't taking the forum seriously. Looking at how much time you spend posting I just assumed it was your job or something.
Amusingly playing the edinburgh defenceSOH aracer SOH
I think you liek to insult folk and them claim its humour when in reality you are just insulting folk
Why not just clearly explaining your view and insult folk. Its when its just insults , claiming to be humour, it gets a bit dull. You almost say nothing these days - well nothing of any real substance its just all scorn for almost everyone- in the last few bits with Bruce its completely baseless and just digs.
I am assuming he is aware of it and its his main aim.If not he really is unlucky.I'm assuming you're not really aware of that,
Its a shame as he does have a great depth of knowledge but he would rather be "humourous" than informative.
Perhaps we all* get to this point after long enough on here ?
* I mean me really as I can be just as guilty
Some real humour
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/snp-announces-second-instalment-of-independence-day-trilogy-20161014115378
maybe
But I still haven't heard why we shouldn't be independent.
All the problems raised are temporal, politicians, ideologies come and go, finances rise and fall, but why should we not be independent?
Why would the country that has given so much to the world in just about every field of endeavour be unable to run its own government? Our people are as capable as anyone else's.
C'mon, what's the reason?
One can argue that any nation, state, region, etc can be independent. Of course they can but that is not the question. The question is what structure maximises the benefits of its members.
The answer to that question is blindingly obvious hence the requirement for smokescreens and subterfuge of those pushing the opposite.
No one doubts the abilities of the Scottish people - after all most had the wisdom to vote remain and all but four voting categories (not sure of correct term) voted to stay "better together" - many, more convincingly than even the ardent nats of Dundee.
Why deny them their wishes and the benefits they currently enjoy.
The answer to that question is blindingly obvious hence the requirement for smokescreens and subterfuge of those pushing the opposite.
The problem with conservative types is that they struggle to envision scenarios that differ from the way things are at the moment.
The two main reason that people voted to remain was because they felt that the risk of the unknown was too great plus the fact that they were promised sweeping new powers. Now it turns out that staying in the union is proving to be a massive unknown and the sweeping powers that were promised never materialised.
I find it amusing when people talk about the result being decisive. When you consider the fact that when the referendum was announced it was 70/30 in favour of the union you have to wonder how you would even go about describing it if that had been the final result.
Considering the fact that we're starting from a 50/50 split this time, there's uncertainty with both options, we know better than to believe any promises of more powers or anything else from westminster, we're looking at a Europe that will be much more accommodating than last time, plus the fact that this time we can expect the support from at least three of the major newspapers then its very conceivable we could win it this time around.
[quote=BruceWee ]The problem with conservative types is that they struggle to envision scenarios that differ from the way things are at the moment.
You seem to be totally missing the point. Both scenarios are being considered, and it is quite clear which scenario is actually better for people in their day to day lives. Does the warm glow of being governed from Edinburgh instead of Westminster make up for having less money in your pocket?
I wish Mrs Crankie would STFU about another referendum. You can't keep having one till you get the result you want. She clearly doesn't believe in democracy.
aracer - Member
Does the warm glow of being governed from Edinburgh instead of Westminster make up for having less money in your pocket?
So lets get down to the nitty gritty. What's the evidence for this?
poah - Member
till you get the result you want. She clearly doesn't believe in democracy.
You can, you clearly don't understand democracy.
An absolute fundamental factor of it is that people are allowed to change their mind. Nothing is set in stone forever.
For similar reasons that Brexit is bad for both the UK and the EU.
and it is quite clear which scenario is actually better for people in their day to day lives.
Indeed. In fact, if you had a blank sheet of paper the optimum scenario is always to have access/be a member of as wide as region as possible while mainting the highest level of devolved power/sovereignty.
The odd thing in both votes is that the status quo - rather than represent conservatism with a little c - was/is about as close to perfect as possible (given that it will never be 100%).
Why would you want to deviate from this - to avoid scrutiny of actual track record??? Avoid awkward questions over why you are unable to maximise, even use, the benefits of the status quo??? Not difficult to answer is it.....?
aracer - Member
For similar reasons that Brexit is bad for both the UK and the EU.
Lets get down to the numbers the real details. Show us the evidence?
You seem to be totally missing the point. Both scenarios are being considered, and it is quite clear which scenario is actually better for people in their day to day lives.
I think what you mean is that in your opinion it's clear which scenario is actually better for people in their day to day lives.
Can you explain why?
Indeed. In fact, if you had a blank sheet of paper the optimum scenario is always to have access/be a member of as wide as region as possible while mainting the highest level of devolved power/sovereignty.
So for Scotland the optimum scenario would be to be independent while a member of the single market while the worst scenario would be to be a small part of a large country without access to the single market.
Like I said thm, it's pretty clear which ever investments you have are based on the status quo, you dislike change for this reason.teamhurtmore - Member
and it is quite clear which scenario is actually better for people in their day to day lives.
Indeed. In fact, if you had a blank sheet of paper the optimum scenario is always to have access/be a member of as wide as region as possible while mainting the highest level of devolved power/sovereignty.The odd thing in both votes is that the status quo - rather than represent conservatism with a little c - was/is about as close to perfect as possible (given that it will never be 100%).
Why would you want to deviate from this - to avoid scrutiny of actual track record??? Avoid awkward questions over why you are unable to maximise, even use, the benefits of the status quo??? Not difficult to answer is it.....?
A wee bit of honest disclosure would be nice here. Or you are in danger of looking a bit like, how would I put, the deceitful one. 😆 All bluster to further you're own agenda!
