Looking for a light outer layer (pref. smock) to pull on for descents or to head out in lousy weather. On the bike I hate waterproof shells and go down the warm/wet route – softshells, gabba, etc., so is it safe to assume I should be looking at windproof? Has to fit in a bumbag.

Looking at windproof – Buffalo Windshirt (or the 50gr lighter one with hood), waterproof Montane Minumus smock etc. Leaning towards the windshirt as I’ve been using their mountain shirt for years and like the idea of one of those without the pile lining, especially the big side vents.
OTOH, if I ever do fell races, seems a waterproof with taped seams must be carried.

Am I going to end up with both?

Yes if you’re going to race you will want both.

Yeah I’ve ended up with both

Yes if you’re going to race you will want both.

This. I’ve got a light windproof shell that’s great for dry days, and often starts in my pack and only gets put on when we get to the peaks, and a waterproof jacket that’s a bit too hot for most days, but ideal when it’s proper grim out.

I wear cheap tog24 windproof most of the iffy weather or cold days.
I wear my cycling waterproof if it really is chucking it down.

Yes if you’re going to race you will want both

I feared as much. I’m not aiming to do many fell races, just while I’m up in the lakes two or three times a year visiting family.

Just the one for now though (only started running last month, trying to keep GAS to absolute minumum!) – anything better than the buffalo? In purple of course 😉

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I do like my.columbia outdry caldorado TDMB approved shell

I bought it as I wanted a shell I can trust for mountain days on the bike -specifically it looked like 2 days of rain for the Cairngorm loop group start in sept and I find most MTB kit to be junk when it comes to prolonged wet.

Tried it out running and was really surprised how well it breathes when under heavy efforts. -was out in then snow and rain for an hour and not only was inside of jacket dry of rain but also dry of sweat.

I then decided if it’s cold enough I need a windshell then it’s probably cold enough to wear the waterproof ergo it was more useful.

I do enjoy running in the rain – a throw back from running in Nigeria as it was the coolest time to go.

In the Basque Country here TR, so rain in vast quantities is pretty much inevitable most of the year. Maybe slightly warmer rain than the UK until you get up high.

Aye that’ll be a bit of a different temperature. Warm and wet will be much easier for you

Yeah the buffalo windshirt is a good shout. I have a couple of similar pertex type things which get a lot of use. Proper grim weather I either don’t go out our wear a serious waterproof and expect to get sweaty (and return to warm clean clothes somehow).

The race waterproof is pretty much a carry-only deal, I’ve worn it about twice. But necessary safety gear.

Never tried it myself, but have you looked at the OMM kit (Fell running specific):

Clothing

Also, if you’re in the Lakes, Kong in Keswick has a good selection of FR specific kit to try on.

Looking for a light outer layer (pref. smock) to pull on for descents or to head out in lousy weather.

I think you’re starting point is that any waterproof fabric – even stuff like Gore Shake Dry which is pretty good – will get sweaty with heavy use. Personally I cool quite fast on descents, so while I’d not wear a waterproof on climbs, I’m more or less happy with a decent one heading down or heading out in really foul conditions.

Don’t get too taken in by the myth that Pertex is super breathable, it’s simply not. It’s a very closely woven, calendared – heat fused – fabric that actually has quite limited air permeability, which is why it’s windproof, but it’s not actually that much better than a good waterproof fabric, though a lot cheaper.

All this is relative because people run more or less fast and tend to function hotter or cooler than each other. Personally I’d look for something made in Pertex Equilibrium, which is the outer fabric Rab uses for its Vapour Rise stuff, which is very wind resistant, but appreciably more comfortable than Pertex or similar when working hard. Montane and Rab both used to do versions, not sure if they still exist though, Back it up with a proper lightweight waterproof.

Buffalo I’ve never really understood. Dated cut and weird 1980s throw-back vibe. If you want Pertex, find something that fits you, Buffalo or not.

Edit: Can’t find an Equilibrium jacket. Guess they’ve stopped making them.

Why not both? I absolutely love my Gore Active Run, incredibly light, fully waterproof, and the most breathable shell I’ve ever encountered. Well worth the fairly high price tag, I wear mine virtually every day in the winter.

Windproof.For me the reality is if its raining Im either going to get wet from the rain or wet from boil in the bag waterproof. Windproof is usually fairly waterproof anyway so gives some protection from the element. I dont race so I have no idea about rules for racing

Also, if you’re in the Lakes, Kong in Keswick has a good selection of FR specific kit to try on.

Pete Bland’s in Kendal also.

FWIW I have a Montane Minimus, really good jacket and packs down tiny, you don’t know you’re carrying it. Not sure if it will suit you exactly, but it’s a good choice.

I use an OMM Kamleika which is a thin softshell smock which would pack down nicely. When it gets nasty outside I’ll just use my Alpkit Balance which is a heavier hardshell waterproof.

Buffalo I’ve never really understood

Maybe guilty of a touch of rose (purple?) tinted glasses here. Borrowed my mate’s 20 year old windshirt this morning to try out. Fit is definitely funky, though it was a size too big.
Anyway, ventured out in fairly grim conditions, 8-10° and heavy rain the whole 75mins. Definitely need a waterproof….