This thread is one big mega-whine!
Yet here you are, whining about people whining!?
What is the British way of life and in what way are Muslims threatening it exactly?
In my line of work I meet and work with many muslims, and indians of various persuasion...
My experience is broadly in line with any other demographic, really, most are really nice people just going about thier lives like any other group of people.
And just like any other group of people, a small minority are 'grade A tossers'...who would have thunk it?
One thing that really opened my eyes was trying to organise an informal office meal out... let's book a big table at a curry house, we think, everone likes a curry, right?
Wrong!
Without thinking it turned out the curry house we selected was more ****stani than Indian, which resulted in in a boycott of the meal by aproximatley 50% of the 'asian' employees.
It didn't click until someone quitely pointed out to me that ****stanis and Indians don't have much love for each other, which made sense after it was pointed out.
Lesson? prejudice exits at all levels and in all walks of life.
Even I as a 'white' person get slightly annoyed and I don't like watching the rugby in the pub any more with my english friends.
As a Welshman, and If i wear a red shirt, it gets really old really quickly, and really irritating having to put up with being accused of having sex with sheep to a chorus of 'baaah baaaah' every 5 mins.
I can take it in good humour to a certain extent, but after a point it just becomes offensive and annoying when it's relentless.
Of course that kind of racism is nothing compared to what some people are subjected to, but that's not my point, my point is racism and prejudice permiates through all of society in one way or another and a lot of time people just play along with it instead of calling it out.
A load of very angry middle-class middle-aged men who need to rant everyday
Has it taken you this long to land on that piece of searing insightfulness? That'll also be why you're here everyday on the political threads whining about Starmer, or whining about other people whining about the Tories, that makes you just like everyone else.
Oh the ironing from ernie
Pisstake or lack of self-awareness?
I'm a middle aged, middle class, grauniad reader, and I hate Rishi and this current iteration of the Tories. It's cathartic to read other people whining about them everyday because otherwise I'd despair about us having to wait for the election
Let's get rid of these bastards and at least give Starmer and co a chance to fail before writing them off
It’s the Rochdale by-election tomorrow which is an absolute shitshow for everyone involved. A total circus, the result of which is absolutely meaningless
It’s just been pointed out on the north west news that when the date of the by-election was announced the Tory candidate already had a holiday booked and he didn’t even bother cancelling it to do any campaigning as there didn’t seem much point 😂
Given the business with Lee Anderson and Braverman over the last week, I bet he’s relieved to be sat on a beach, having dodged a bullet there. Loss of deposit incoming.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/grant-shapps-using-raf-choppers-32227059
Oh look, Grant Shapps has obviously been taking travel advice from Rishi Sunak.
Entitled ****s, the lot of them.
Has it taken you this long to land on that piece of searing insightfulness?
No, it took this morning's whining about rone who, god forbid, actually introduced a bit of politics* into this thread and talked about economic alternatives, for me to comment that I would rather his contributions than the usual "we hate all Tories because they are so beastly" nonsense.
*At least he tried to but the usual suspects got upset because apparently that's not what this thread is about.
It’s cathartic to read other people whining about them everyday
I bet it is! Which was precisely my point - whining daily about how awful the Tories are obviously satisfies an important need in some people 😃
Edit: Btw spawnofyorkshire, what about STWers who vote Tory - are they expected not to post on threads about the Tory leader? Or indeed any political thread?
How does that fit in with your middle-class Guardian-reading tendencies?
whining daily about how awful the Tories are obviously satisfies an important need in some people
I think we can all agree we need a general election sooner rather than later.
But Sunak, for understandable reasons, will leave that until 2 minutes to midnight.
In the meantime, we will have to put up with a steady flow of Tory MPs bi-elections and lost seats for various reasons.
Also in the meantime we have the council elections, I predict a devestating loss of tory councilors across the country.
I don't know how I will vote in a GE yet, but it certainly won't be conservative, it will be lib-dem, green, or labour as a last resort.
In the locals, I'll blindly hold my nose and vote labour in May. My minds pretty much made up.
Btw spawnofyorkshire, what about STWers who vote Tory – are they expected not to post on threads about the Tory leader? Or indeed any political thread?
Of course they can - but they will have to defend their support of the disgusting deliberate cruelty of the tories which is more than a little impossible
Bit late after a day of no phone, going back to the threat to the British Way of Life- didn’t it end with the Roman,Viking, Angle, Saxon & Jute invasions?
Can’t beat reminding gammons that the English are immigrants and their culture is littered with adoptions from others -
Their Patron Saint Romano/Turk/Armenian
Their flag - leased from Genoa
Their football teams emblem - borrowed from Angevin nobility
.
Currency denomination does not determine economic theory.
Evry fule no dat.
The G7, because of their alignment, all follow very similar economic policies.
Edit; this post was in response to ernie who has now deleted his post. He could, of course, re-post...
Edit; this post was in response to ernie who has now deleted his post. He could, of course, re-post…
Sorry Frank I deleted it because something weird happened - I must have accidentally clicked on something which I wrote this morning. So I deleted at it was no longer appropriate and the conversation had moved on. TBH I can't even remember precisely what it said so I can't repost it - something about the US and the UK fundamentally operating the same economic model.
Edit: Actually I think I posted that comment this morning on the previous page to this one. I think I was having trouble posting this morning and a duplicate post was left which I accidentally posted just now.
Right, so to save any further confusion it's (probably) best everyone goes to their respective beds and start again in the morning or, preferably, not start again!
So, the Press going big this morning on plans to stop peaceful protest, I'm sorry, end "mob rule".
How long till they try and end that pesky democracy/voting thing?
Mob rule intimidating elected officials according to the radio this morning.
Wasn't sure if that's the protest marches or the braying back benches in parliament.
My understanding is the issue is threats and online abuse - which I think are already covered by criminal offences.
I'm not aware of any issues with protest marches that other governments haven't managed to cope with for 50 odd years.
Presumably soldiers on horseback are the solution like they were when Britain was "great".
"We all hated George Osborne’s position right – widely proved to be a disaster so why can’t you begin to agree that Reeves and Starmer taking his position must also not be a good idea?"
I don't believe Starmer/Reeves are taking his position for any other reason than to take a different one means they'll have the entire right-wing 'establishment' on their backs (and the associtaed gullible/selfish/frightened voters) and reduce their chance of becoming the next Govt. It's the same tact that Blair & Brown took in the mid-late 90's.
And Blair/Brown made a difference to ordinary folk once they were in power, took the best part of an administration and we had many good years of improving public services, until the (above) right wing establishment had something to beat them with (Global Financial Crisis). We went back around the circle but this time it'll take more than one administration to even just repair the damage, never mind start to get back to where we were.
It would appear that in a rare fit of cognitive clarity someone has twigged that they've let the genie out of the bottle.
Good luck putting it back in.
Sorry Frank I deleted it because something weird happened – I must have accidentally clicked on something which I wrote this morning.
Poor bloke has multiple tabs of STW open with half-written comments in them. It's a full time job keeping us supplied with educated political discourse.
"In the locals, I’ll blindly hold my nose and vote labour in May. My minds pretty much made up."
Why is it "hold my nose"?
Do you still believe that Tory Policies are correct, just don't like the current Govt - or something else?
It is quite odd that not being happy about the current state of labour is trying to be twisted to support for the Tories, it is logical gymnastics to try and present it that way.
I’m not aware of any issues with protest marches that other governments haven’t managed to cope with for 50 odd years.
Presumably soldiers on horseback are the solution like they were when Britain was “great”
It’s timely that the excellent miners strike documentaries have just been on BBC and Channel 4. They remind us what a Tory government and a militarised police force did the last time they started banging on about ‘Mob Rule’. Baton charges and mounted police cracking skulls, followed by industrial scale fabrication of evidence and malicious prosecutions.
I can’t see them being able to repeat that, no matter how much they’d like to, but I fear that we’re about to see a massive crackdown on the right to protest
It is quite odd that not being happy about the current state of labour is trying to be twisted to support for the Tories, it is logical gymnastics to try and present it that way.
Which is why no one has said that, as far as I can tell.
If all the disappointed Labour supporters (and I'm one of them) decide to vote for another party or not vote at all, thete is a risk that the shy Tories and gullible voters will crawl out the woodwork and the bastard Tories will sneak back in.
Why is it “hold my nose”?
In my case its the anti democratic nature of Labours actions towards Scotland, the refusal to do constitutional reform that IMO is essential for the UK to prosper, the continuance of Tory austerity.
Labour or tory in power at Westminster will make very little difference to Scotland
Last westminster election the labour candidate in my constituency was up to his neck in the coverup of the Statutory notice scandal that had the potential to cost me my house and my retirement.
also here there will never be a tory MP from my constituency so it really does not matter who I vote for as it will be either labour or SNP
really does not matter who I vote for as it will be either labour or SNP
If, hypothetically, Labour were to fail to achieve a majority by 1 seat and your constituency returned an SNP member instead, then that could lead to a Tory coalition. Pretty slim chance though I admit, since who tf would form a coalition with Tories now?
A link (via Twitter) to a FT article about access to politicians, specifically when the owner of a loss-making start up company who is now embroiled in a fraud case lends you his private jet.
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1763101874939371581?t=ZwnjRN_L_rbIH2f1U3oFaA&s=19
They do like their air travel don't they! Shapps article yesterday about him treating RAF helicopters as his own private Uber, Liz Truss racked up hundreds of hours on board a Voyager...
Nothing shouts "man of the people" quite like having a couple of private jets on call.
Oh and from last week where Sunak enabled the hatshit mental "farmers" to be slightly more batshit and mental at the expense of actual farmers...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/28/wales-farming-environment-sunak-protest
Sunak is very punchable, isn't he.....
Smary prick.
Listening to him on PMQs makes me angry. Vapid ****.
The type of person who coveted this kinda crap.....
who tf would form a coalition with Tories now?
Presumably Reform...
The type of person who coveted this kinda crap…..
He was 'Head Boy' at Winchester wasn't he? Of course he was.
He's a horrible, nasty, petty little dweeb and a very dangerous one. This whole 'Mob Rule' nonsense looks very much like 'rolling the pitch' (to use a Boris Johnsonism) for a draconian crackdown on civil liberties, which we know they've been gunning for for a long time.
Would you bet against him now advocating pulling out of the ECHR in order to 'restore law'n'order'?
It also has some pretty unpleasent Trump-like overtones too in that the subtext to this seems to be a nod and a wink to the far right and pandering to their prejudices that this is all 'Islamists' and 'lefties'
Its ratcheting up their already vile culture war, to widen the remit and 'other' large sections of society who they'd rather weren't there being vocal about their failings
If, hypothetically, Labour were to fail to achieve a majority by 1 seat and your constituency returned an SNP member instead, then that could lead to a Tory coalition.
No it wouldn't because of the 30 ish SNP and a dozen lib dems seats would mean if labour were one short of a majority tories would be 40 odd short so it would be a labour minority administration.
either labour or SNP in my seat makes no differnce to the chance of a labour administration because the SNP will allways oppose the tories
The SNP have formed coalitions with all parties in local councils, including with the Tories. But it seems highly unlikely now, even if there are further changes in who is at the top of the party, that they would join a coalition at Westminster with either the Conservatives or Labour. If the numbers were right, they might take a step back to allow either to form a government without opposition from them though, in return for some Scotland only policy concessions (a referendum on independence or federalisation being the most obvious candidate for that).
The SNP have formed coalitions with all parties in local councils, including with the Tories.
Have they? Which councils are they in coalition with the tories? Its usually tory / labour coalitions to stop the SNP
Edit: Its labour, lib dem and tory policy never to do deals with the SNP. In the past they did have some support from the tories at holyrood on a you scratch my back I'll scratch yours but it was never a formal agreement and D.Ross has now stated he will not work with the SNP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Dumfries_and_Galloway_Council_election
LibDems got clobbered. Labour became largest party. SNP kept the Tories in.
ernielynch Full Member
I bet it is! Which was precisely my point – whining daily about how awful the Tories are obviously satisfies an important need in some people 😃
Michael Stipe said it well:
I know that this is vitriol,
No solution, spleen-venting,
But I feel better having screamed,
Don't you?
kelvin - 12 years and 2 elections ago. that is not the case now
"SNP and Independent Group Coalition with Labour support until February 2023.[51] Conservative minority administration from March 2023.[45]
so no formal coaltion with either troies of labour right now
Nor was it a formal coaltion with SNP / tories in 2012 - it was a tory / independent coalition with SNP support
Actually different sources give different emphasis on this. My bet would be labour refused to work with the SNP so tory administration with SNP support was the only way to get a functioning council but I do not know for sure
Labour became largest party. SNP kept the Tories in.
Is however true depending on where you look from
"If, hypothetically, Labour were to fail to achieve a majority by 1 seat and your constituency returned an SNP member instead, then that could lead to a Tory coalition. "
The SNP would go into coalition with the Conservative & UNIONIST Party - do you even realise this is their name?
I saw a great documentary last night on the film channel. It was called Children of Men, and was about modern Britain.
A bit flattering to Bexhill-on-Sea, but otherwise on the money.
meanwhile
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1763519316719210769
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1763519674052973026
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1763577930599301215
Todays polling has the Tories a whisker away from being the 3rd party and Labour with nearly a 400 seat majority, especially if people were to vote tactically
Interestingly in Rochdale Refiorm collapsed, thats a silver lining for the Tories and could see them boosted
but still Tories looking in almost as bad a position as they were under Truss
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1763592132898504862
Beth Rigby on Sky
BREAKING: PM to make a statement outside No 10 at 5.40pm. Understand this is not calling an election but I also hear he wants to make a statement about something that is important to him. Might be about recent divisions over Gaza and issues of extremism…
Might be about recent divisions over Gaza and issues of extremism…
Sunak:
Dear plebs,
Due to things around extremism, mostly things that we've stoked up and inflamed, you're all banned from any form of protest from now on.
Also we've decided that things are so serious we can't possibly call a GE right now so we'll be in power a while longer.
And you can't protest about it so **** you.
Bye!
/Sunak
I reckon that ^^ mostly covers it.
Given the guardian is reporting this as "Rishi Sunak to make Downing Street speech about 'need to protect democratic processes'" then my guess is crazylegs is about right and he is going to announce draconian measures to stifle dissent
Another early evening party political broadcast from the No.10 lectern in time for the evening bulletins. Shameless.
An unelected (even by his own party members) PM should be the last one to talk about 'protecting democratic processes'.
What the fudge was that about !!
dead cat , or dead duck trying to rabble rouse ?
I think the reference to hate and division was directed at those in his own party, Braverman, Gullis, Anderson etc..etc.
Apart from the above interpretation he got three “**** offs”, one “****”, two “****’s” and one “It’s your ****ing party that’s the issue” from myself, he could’ve done much better
The little tease- saw the breaking news banner and thought he was going to call the election 🤬
So is rishi now trying to tell his headbangers that immigration is good?
That's going to go well
With the tone of that speech I was waiting for the 'We are protecting democracy by declaring Marshall law' line.
I suspect that if they are asking the police to take sides they should have have given them a bigger pay rise last time
An unelected (even by his own party members) PM should be the last one to talk about ‘protecting democratic processes’.
To which the first question should be "ah, you'll be publishing the report into Russian interference into UK elections (and the Brexit referendum) then?"
Closely followed by further questions about Boris shaking his security detail and buggering off to a big party hosted by Lebedev and then giving Lebedev Jr a seat in the Lords.
fair play to Sunak
it would be good to see him crackdown on those in his own party that stoke division so much
Fair play to him? Balderdash. He and his party have spent the last decade stoking the fires or extremism. He needs to boot all the racists, homophobes and islamophobes out of the party. There is one key factor in the rise of extremeism in the UK - tory party policy and public pronouncements
The man is a gross hypocrite
John Crace is on the money as ever, highlighting how crap Sunak is at this whole politics lark
With the tone of that speech I was waiting for the ‘We are protecting democracy by declaring Marshall law’ line.
Agree with this. Felt genuinely sick listening to it. Democracy is under threat from imaginary forces so we must crack down on uour freedoms to protect you.
Straight out of 1930s Germany.
The voters of Rochdale have exercised their democratic right to elect Galloway, for whatever reason. That doesn't threaten democracy, and the people saying it does would be better off looking at WHY they voted for him, and for an indy candidate in second place.
Probably the most doublespeak statement from a UK politician of all time. Just when you think we're at the bottom, the Cons keep on digging.
That doesn’t threaten democracy, and the people saying it does would be better off looking at WHY they voted for him, and for an indy candidate in second place
Indeed. But self awareness is very out of fashion this week.
Sunak doesn't mind a bit of extremism, it just has to be the right government approved extremism.
Probably the most doublespeak statement from a UK politician of all time. Just when you think we’re at the bottom, the Cons keep on digging.
am no fan of Sunak, but still think it was right for him to denounce extremism on all sides
obviously his own party have done nothing but stoke division for the past 8 years and the hypocrisy is off the scale
anyway with every single Tory retweeting Sunak's "Powerful" speech for the first time im thinking they might actually be going for a May election
Bonkers beyond belief with such a huge gap in the polls
Just call a **** election.
just over 3 more weeks before it's too late to hit the Locals in May (and if they do it at a different time itll cost an extra £100milliin)
Agree with this. Felt genuinely sick listening to it. Democracy is under threat from imaginary forces so we must crack down on uour freedoms to protect you.
Straight out of 1930s Germany.
Was having this exact conversation with my History teacher wife this evening.
So much of what comes out of the Tories right now smacks of the 1930s playbook. Not being alarmist and saying that's where we're actually heading, but the tactics being used to stir up mistrust of the 'other' and create divisions within society are worryingly similar.
Both of Sunak's recent declarations stink of wanting to use the police and the law as a (party) political weapon.
When the Tory Party officially churns out extremist hate-filled shite like this:
https://www.suellabraverman.co.uk/news/islamists-are-bullying-britain-submission
It comes as no great surprise that the good people of Rochdale didn't rush out to vote Conservative yesterday.
I don't believe for a moment that the Rochdale by-election result came as any sort of shock to Rishi Sunak.
But I can see from his little speech outside Number 10 that he intends to exploit the result to whip up even greater fear of "Islamists" taking control of the country.
Sunak has an unavoidable general election coming up soon, he is both desperate and a Tory, that was obvious from his Downing Street speech this afternoon - he wants to scare people into voting Tory.
Sunak was right about one thing this afternoon - there is a problem with division and hate in our society. Him and his party are indisputably part of the problem - they have contributed so much in that respect.
Some nice barbs at Sunak in this. Leaving the interviewee and the surrounding subjects aside.
"you're talking to him as if he was god. We're talking about little Rishi Sunak in the fag end of his prime ministership"
"don't keep telling me about the prime minister as if he was Moses"
https://twitter.com/HensonJames11/status/1763633326202438109
The whole interview was hilarious. Enjoy this segment.
I didn't find it funny. I said about a week ago that Galloway's ego would be insufferable if he won Rochdale. The smug patronising contempt he treats that Sky reporter confirms my worse fears.
And of course with the laughing female fans in the background to egg on Gorgeous George.
just loony liz waa busy sticking 2 fingers up at sunak whilst he gave his speech
https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1763696711367639197?t=C8NtkrkTS_eLYw2iEpQE1Q&s=19
I said this to specifically try and keep the lid on this can of worms.
Fairy nuff. But it made me uncomfortable to see him ridiculing the Sky reporter. I reckon Galloway has sufficient talent to make his point forcefully without showing that level of contempt to the person who is interviewing him.
It didn't make pleasant viewing for me.
It didn’t make pleasant viewing for me.
Nor me.
galloway has no redeeming features - at all.
He is objectionable and his comments/views have no relevance.
The voters of Rochdale will soon find out how empty his words are - irrespective of his grandiloquence.
He is a self-serving and egotistical money grabber.
Rochdale, to him, is nothing more than an opportunity.
galloway is so far up his own arse that he sees no need to be polite/pleasant to or considerate of others.
Truck him and his followers.
Just call a **** election
This government is creeping towards not calling one at all.
However it's not going to be May. As late as possible if they play ball.
Mortgage approvals up - house market starting to move and interests rates pivot soon. This is the only bit of 'good' news they can hope for
That's my guess anyway.
So much of what comes out of the Tories right now smacks of the 1930s playbook. Not being alarmist and saying that’s where we’re actually heading
I suspect a lot of Germans in the 1930s thought it wasn't where things were heading either.
Thats the worry
Mortgage approvals up – house market starting to move and interests rates pivot soon. This is the only bit of ‘good’ news they can hope for
They'd best hope this list of Tory economic record doesn't get too wide an airing then....
John Crace nails the PM's urgent speech last night...
They’d best hope this list of Tory economic record doesn’t get too wide an airing then….
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/02/conservatives-economic-record-budget-deficit-gdp-tax-tory-budget/blockquote >
I came to post this. Let's not forget that the Tories are the party of the economy....