Thanks for all the input guys, it wasn’t quite what I expected in terms of direction for the thread, but its been a great source of knowledge.

Id also like this answered comprehensively please:

Question here.

So, you do your morning ride, fueled by your bodily fat reserves and glycogen stored in the muscles ?
Then when you get back from your ride.
You do not carb up.
Does the body then re-charge your muscles with glycogen, by converting your body fat to glycogen ?.

In hindsight, and based on the info provided here, im now thinking that Atkins isn’t the best solution for me rather a very low carb +simple carbs post exercise diet.

My next question would be, as a budding trainee traithelete and regular cyclist and runner, whats the best diet solution for me – considering that im also still very overweight.
Essentially, weight loss is my ultimate target, but performance during exercise is still very important to me.
For what its worth, I keep up with most slim folk in most disciplines – with probably the exception of running where I am very slow.

Lasts nights off road excursion left me reeling after approx 30 mins, at which point lactic build up in my quads made hill climbs unbearable.
Even wlaking up the stairs to my office this morning resulted in lactic burn. A feeling im not used to anymore!
Should I simply consume some simple carbs post exercise to aid recovery?

I heard the other day that sunflower oil was ok, as was olive oil. Is this true?

Slimjim I would say idave is right up your alley so to say.

What I want to know is does Solo explode at any point on this thread?

Not yet. Maybe he’s off having a glass of milk.

essential fats, or essential amino acids

I always thought that ^^^ plus vitamins (the clue is in the name) was it.

Vegetarians can help but eat carbs to get all the essential amino acids due to mix of grains/pulses required. Unless you just eat Soy

For what its worth, I keep up with most slim folk in most disciplines – with probably the exception of running where I am very slow.

As a bit of motivation to help realise the bennefits of weight loss-

So just how much can you expect to benefit from being lighter? Joe Henderson, the author of various books on running, has this to offer: “The loss of a single pound doesn’t mean much for a single mile, but the effect multiplies nicely. Ten pounds equals 20 seconds per mile, which grows to a minute-plus in a 5K, more than two minutes in a 10K, nearly 4.5 minutes in a half-marathon and almost nine minutes in a marathon.”

Which is why I am annoyed at myself for being so open on a public forum, at the end of the day my comments may do more harm than good, which is deeply upsetting.

Tom. Don’t apologise. you ate confirming a suspicion some of us have had from listening to our bodies and food cravings for a while. Keeping a food diary and spotting patterns (drink 2 cans of Coje as emergency fuel – overheat for the next two days) ties up with a lot of what you ate saying.

Not yet. Maybe he’s off having a glass of milk.

*waits*

I’m off for a swim after which I will eat some peanut butter and jam sarnies washed down with a pint of milk. Did you hear that Solo? Bread and Milk!!

you ate confirming a suspicion some of us have had from listening to our bodies and food cravings for a while. Keeping a food diary and spotting patterns (drink 2 cans of Coje as emergency fuel – overheat for the next two days) ties up with a lot of what you ate saying. ties up with a lot of what you ate saying.

Freudian slip?

I’d love to go for a bike ride with Dave and Tom I have a billion and one questions, being a biffer an all.

*edit* Not that I’d be able to keep up

autocorrect

dammit

Is there a link to comprehensive iDave diet info?

YGM Slim

if anyone wants to offer to guide me round the peaks they can have a day finding out everything I know, I warn you though, once I start talking I don’t stop.

@legspin
Any chance you could send me the info sheet please (if it is the new updated one)?

I’ll take you up on that Tom, if you don’t mind waiting at the top of the climbs?

Just want to say thanks to tomhughes, solo, idave and the other knowledgeble people here who took the time to share.

Just bought a copy of the diet delusion.

Ex Virgin Olive oil

No difference between ex virgin olive oil and plain old olive oil as far as I know apart from taste? I thought sunflower was generally regarded as pretty decent too, interested if this isn’t a case.

The only thing I’d add is there is a probably a difference between trained ‘athletes’ (i.e. people doing 4-5 hours on water alone) and the average person trying to stay in reasonable shape by eating carefully and riding a bit. I can conclusively say I suffer like a dog over around 3 hours if I don’t have porridge before I go out and eat a bit on the way around.

There is a massive difference I’m afraid. Much more than the taste.

Extra virgin is pressed, its a juice. Its not refined.

Regular olive oil is refined from all the crap that has been pressed for all its good oil. It is chemically refined and the result is…..Lamp oil!

This has high levels of certain toxins that are known to be toxic to humans and animals.
To make it fit for human consumption it has a small amount of extra virgin added to it to water down the toxic acids, from IIRC 6% (above which is toxic apparently) to 5% which makes all the difference apparently.

So that olive oil your using is no better than most other chemical refined oils.

Sunflower oil is the same I’m afraid. The high heat involved in refining causes alterations in the fats – now let me be clear – we do not know if these are harmful YET, but the skeptic in me says they are manmade so best avoided. The also DO create trans fats, which are isomers of the originals – if my chemistry isn’t failing me there. It doesn’t go full saturation like margerine but still alters the fats makeup. Not good in my opinion.

legspin I’ll take you up on that if you retract your earlier statement in the thread 😛

Which one? Don’t take any notice of me, I’m great at programming CNC machine but know bugger all about food. Just what the *experts tell me*

The hero one, I do admit though I was being an arse.

Now all I need to do I convince my 15 year old that sugar is bad and the wife who is trained by the NHS to get people thin. Might be harder work than converting me.

And thats probably the sadest thing about it.
For years, decades, people have believed and trusted the advise.
Now, its seems, that somehow, somewhere.
It all went wrong.

Still, no use wringing your hands about yesterday.
Better to get busy with the course change.
So long as this time… diet suggestions can be backed up by good science.
😉

*** Finally !, a diet / nutrition thread on STW of use and which has calm, informative debate… Who’d have ever thought it***

Ok you will have to wait a bit longer to get hero status.

Iirc avocado oil is ok to use for cooking due to it not degrading at high temps as well.

You could always try GT85 for frying it’s not much use for anything else…

diet suggestions can be backed up by good science

I’ve been drinking milk for nearly 30 years and I ain’t dead yet. 😉

I was going to go out for a quick ride, but I started reading this thread and now it’s too late.

Off for some beans now.

right, off out on the bike for a while. Do doubt I’ll be back here later. Oh and Phil milk is great for you, just try to make it full fat or jersey gold top.

I didn’t refresh before posting 😳

No, not milk.

But a trip into the sunny country side in my convertible.
To a little pub, where in the company of the World’s most beautiful woman.
I had Venison, with caramelised onion gravy, mushrooms, salad and pea, broad bean and spinach Fricassse.

Washed down with a large glass of Shiraz.

And to think some mug has just had bread, jam and peanut butter.
Must be hell… Being an exercsie addict
😉

Lovin this red meat, good fats, low sugar, eating.

8)

I see a few Qs on Oils.

It may be useful to some to read what Mark has to say on Oils.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/healthy-oils/

Oh and Phil milk is great for you, just try to make it full fat or jersey gold top.

sshhh, you’ll set Solo off. 🙂

, where in the company of the World’s most beautiful woman

Pictures or it didn’t happen.

Mainly to Tom -Another consideration which goes hand in hand with the other stuff I mentioned would be longer term outcomes of low carbs diets.

For individuals with epilepsy (a big part of my work) low carb diets have proved to be beneficial in seizure reduction for medication resistant epilepsies. I have even seen people become seizure free.

However, studies suggest adverse effects on blood lipid levels and an increase in cardiac arrhythmias, and I know individuals who have had to end the diet and accept higher seizure frequencies.

Maybe something else to add to your reading list.

FWIW.

I now fry in butter.

KerryGold is grass fed, which is supposed to be a good thing as opposed to butter from grain fed cows, yadda.

I have found Yeo Valley claim that their butter is grass fed and organic.

I see a few Qs on Oils.

It may be useful to some to read what Mark has to say on Oils.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/healthy-oils/
Interesting reading – but he doesn’t mention cold-pressed rapeseed oil (only talks about the processed stuff which he calls “canola oil”). Perhaps it doesn’t exist in his part of the world? Surely it is one of the “good oils” though?

Well it only took 2 years+ for someone to come along and back up what I’ve been bleating on about and getting grief over. cheers tom, I owe you a beetroot juice.

re’ oils I use flaxseed, rapeseed and extra virgin olive oil. and finishline on my chains.

Interesting reading – but he doesn’t mention cold-pressed rapeseed oil (only talks about the processed stuff which he calls “canola oil”). Perhaps it doesn’t exist in his part of the world? Surely it is one of the “good oils” though?

Fair point.

But we might ask what we’d get from unrefined rapeseed oil, and whether we need it or whether such nutrients might not be available from another source.

Things that interested me, was how heating Olive during cooking may degrade it, from a nutritional perspective.

I’ve done a bit of reading on that site and seems the omega 3s aren’t particularly robust.

Hence my switch to Frying with butter.

But I still knock up salad dressings using olive oil.

I just thought that as Tom, iDave, etc are busy.
That I’d offer up some info on Oils.
I can only hope it helps.
🙂

Well it only took 2 years+ for someone to come along and back up what I’ve been bleating on about and getting grief over. cheers tom, I owe you a beetroot juice.

Aye !. I’ve been watching this for around 18-24 months.
You’ve done well to stay the course.

Things that interested me, was how heating Olive during cooking may degrade it, from a nutritional perspective.

When I was a chef one of the restaurants I worked for had some studies done on oils and what happened to them at high temps.

From the results we ended up using pomace oil for cooking, though it’s extracted using solvents so you may choose to avoid it.