Looks interesting.

BBC Newsnight ? @BBCNewsnight

Tonight #newsnight reveals how over 2,000 senior public servants are potentially avoiding tax by not having their pay taxed at source.
😐

Wouldn’t it be hilarious if they are all from HMRC. 😀

wow, can’t wait 😀

Probably a smart pension adjustment, doesn’t everyone do this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17927792#TWEET136474

I just caught the end of the debate, but consensus seemed to be that long term high level positions like Ed Lester being paid through a system that is designed for short term contractors is wrong.
One in the eye for the public sector. 😥

One in the eye for the public sector

You really think so? It’s hardly news that there are over paid senior managers throughout the public sector, they’re no better than bankers and usually very cosy with politicians, this hardly reflects on the hard working under appreciated “normal” public sector worker that make up the majority of the public sector.

IMO comments like that just try and reinforce an “Us and them” mentality between public and private sector workers. At the end of the day we’re all being screwed by current politics and divide and conquer suits their agenda.

“normal” public sector worker that make up the majority of the public sector

Interestingly the link talks about “More than 2,000 public-sector workers” presumably that is the estimated amount of public sector employees who are paid over £58k. Bearing in mind that there are 6 million public sector employees that kind of puts it into perspective. I wonder how that compares with the private sector ? Or does no one in the private sector have “arrangements” to minimise their tax liabilities?

It’s hardly news that there are over paid senior managers throughout the public sector,

Not the over paying, more the cheating in order to reduce tax and NI payments while colleagues are paying the full amounts.
I then have to listen to the holier that thou rhetoric of the public sector doing no wrong.
Comments like that justify the “us and us” in that the difference between corruption in the public sector is not that much different from corruption in the private sector, it’s just one is more willing to ‘fess up and pay the price without the pontificating.

….the difference between corruption in the public sector is not that much different from corruption in the private sector

Corruption is pretty much nonexistent in the UK public sector. Where incidents are unearthed they tend to get significant media coverage and the penalties are generally severe. Did you mean something different ?

tax avoidance is cheating 😯 …god you rabid lefties get everywhere 🙄 [ just thought i would also have no actual opinions and take up a contrary position for the joy of argument]

It is not an acceptable position nor is it a fair reflection of the public sector but you know this
yes i know whatever

The irony of public sector workers avoiding paying tax is there’ll be nothing in the pot to pay for a pay rise or pension contributions next year…
Lower tax take = need to make more public sector job losses too 😯

Where incidents are unearthed they tend to get significant media coverage and the penalties are generally severe. Did you mean something different ?

I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

fairly common in the nuclear industry to have long term (5 years+) contractors mostly as it’s a nice little earner

I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

The link you provided only talks of “loopholes” and “overturning the legally agreed pay deals”, there is no mention of criminal activity – why would you expect to punish anyone ?

.

The irony of public sector workers avoiding paying tax is there’ll be nothing in the pot to pay for a pay rise or pension contributions next year…
Lower tax take = need to make more public sector job losses too

Actually the irony I noticed was mentioned in the article :

“The government, as employer, could potentially have to meet the extra costs of National Insurance and pension payments, as well as various statutory employee rights.”

2,000 senior public servants are potentially[/i] avoiding tax

How many are avoiding it then? Any actually evading tax? Pretty duff item on the face of it.

why would you expect to punish anyone ?

Where do you get that I want to punish anyone? I’m not sure sure I mentioned punishment.
Come to think about it, I didn’t mention criminal either, you appear to be inventing things again to satify your own arguments ernesto. Why am I not surprised about this?

It mostly looks like an IR35 type game, if they are true employees then they will be required to repay any tax owed.

Where do you get that I want to punish anyone? I’m not sure sure I mentioned punishment.
Come to think about it, I didn’t mention criminal either, you appear to be inventing things again to satify your own arguments ernesto. Why am I not surprised about this?

Explain this to me then :

Me :

Corruption is pretty much nonexistent in the UK public sector. Where incidents are unearthed they tend to get significant media coverage and the penalties are generally severe. Did you mean something different ?

You :

I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

Are you in one of your grumpy/stroppy moods again DS ?

so its a loophole that maybe affects 2000 people that will get closed down

I have mates that work in IT in the city that employ similar methods to reduce their tax bills significantly
and things like the 3bn tax write let off for Vodafone or camerons advisor Mr top shops avoidance measures
all put this admittedly shitty behaviour by less than 0.1 % of the. public sector into perspective

Looks like IR35 type game

Johnnydepp:

Accept my apologies if I am mistaken, but are you an automated device of some kind?

I wouldnt wish to jump to conclusions, but your post made little sense and your posting history is a bit, well, brief, y’know?

Again, many apologies if i have called this wrong, Johnny. Ta!

Isn’t this a great opportunity for cost savings, given cuts are required. Long service civil servants must be very expensive to make redundant, and a very long winded process too. If these guys work for a separate company, just cancel or don’t renew the contracts and give them a cardboard box with their stuff.

Aside from the rights or wrongs, don’t forget that this wee trick also removes the need to fund those pesky civil service pensions, as well as all the other benefits (death in service etc) for the ‘contractors’.

Funny really, they’ve already largely outsourced the bottom end of the public service hierarchy, now it looks like the same is happening at the top.

Of course it could be argued that everyone is a contractor these days- all jobs are temporary and subject to the whims of the employer, it seems- just that some get additional tax breaks

so its a loophole that maybe affects 2000top level people that will get closed down

😉
I am quite warmed by the fact folks are coming out to defend this.

How on earth do they do this?

Someone please write a “How to”.

We had a consultant working with us for 6 months and at the end of that period HMRC began to ask questions. They clearly stated that if the consultant worked for us over a period of time they would, from HMRC’s perspective, become an employee and therefore subject to the same tax implications as out full time employees. The consultant worked part time but just for us on a 3 month contract that we renewed once. Some of that lot on Newsnight have been in post for years.

What will be interesting is to see the balance of tax take vs the cost to the state in PAYE & NI.

I am quite warmed by the fact folks are coming out to defend this.

No defence at all for this except the “please don’t tar me with the same brush, they are but 0.2% of our workforce”.

And of course any number of points of ‘whatabout’ and diversionary defence usually trotted out by the Toryist Bighitters on this forum. But I won’t bother, anyone arsed to read this thread knows it all anyway.

is this still the same story as this one?

http://www.BBC.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17339374

No defence at all for this except the “please don’t tar me with the same brush, they are but 0.2% of our workforce”.

Perfectly happy to do this, let’s see if it can applied the other way, not all private sector workers are Madoffs. 😉

Rather like noisy economic data, a sense of proportion seems to be needed here. I thought it was part of a 24 hour news / Newsnight special that is becoming all too frequent ie, the need to inflate the significance of stories to create the impression of important news. Normally associated with that Emily woman – the one with bigger cocones than Paxman!

DS, may I suggest that you may also be falling into the same track. You could perhaps try the Meryln King believes that Labour caused a million more unemployed if you want to stir things up a bit. He seems to be on a bit of a stirring it up phase himself at the BoE – creating a smokescreen for his own failures like the politicians? But this story really needs some perspective.

Shame that Newsnight is becoming more down market/sensationalist/dumbing down. Is that the story of the BBC?

I am quite warmed by the fact folks are coming out to defend this.

now defending included saying

this admittedly shitty behaviour by less than 0.1 % of the. public sector into perspective

In that case i would like to defend DS posting on this thread as pretty shitty 😀

It’s everything nowadays, but ultimately I don’t think there’s any incentive to change it. I suppose this doesn’t really apply to the public sector, but the punishment comes down on the employee, not the employer (who, of course, avoid all that unpleasant stuff like employer’s NI and pension contributions), so when people are forced into doing this to keep their jobs it’s massively unfair.