The transition from:

respected company chairman, a member of the gun club for several years

to: a former company chairman, who recently lost his job, is suspected of shooting dead his wife and two daughters before turning the gun on himself can happen in five minutes never mind five years. That being the time between certificate renewals.

Constant security.

How’d that work?
Crikey the police can’t manage!, so I doubt anyone else could.
Again, the same people would still have access.

Oh what’s that I hear you cry? Ittul cost lots of money??

Nah, you hear me cry that it’s a daft proposition.

Surely you’re that into your sport that you’d be perfectly happy to pay extra for increased public safety. I’m sure you’re all that responsible, aren’t you?

Not my sport. Got no desire to shoot anything, and many of the people I’ve met who do aren’t people I’d want to spend much time with. But that in itself isn’t a reason for extra legislation.

I think people maybe need to separate arguments into ‘do people want legislation to reduce murder?’, and if so then examine if their proposals would do so, or ‘do people want legislation to ban things that they find repulsive?’, and if it’s the latter, how does society strike a balance between personal freedoms and society’s moralities.

Almost missed your little comment, Elfinsaftey. The use of the word ‘prick’ makes you think I’m angry…? Live a sheltered life do you…?

If I didn’t dislike the emoticon so much I’d roll my eyes…

To win an Olympic medal, TJ. Or simply participate in those Olympic sports that require a gun.

TJ – you are a knob of the highest order! You make a statement like this

This is not a troll. Its the unpalatable truth. Gun ownership is all about killing things.

and basically you naff all. Gun ownership got me many many medals and trophies at International level as well and all I did was KILL PAPER!!!!! Stop sprouting your garbage and grow up!

The difference is guns are designed to be lethal.

Nope, they’re really not, in fact they’re very carefully designed and engineered to be perfectly safe, there has been a huge amount of effort and seceral hundreds of years reactice put into making damn sure that they only go off when you pull the trigger.

Sit a loaded gun on the table, and it really will not hurt anyone, unless you pick it up, point it at someone and shoot it.

I’ll bet more people have been killed by car handbrakes failing, and cars rolling down the driveway and causing a crash, than have been caused by modern firearms spontaneously firing, without human involvement – they’re really quite safe, inaminate objects.

No one has come up with any reason why the private ownership of guns (except for those who use than as a needed tool) should be allowed other than “I want to”

Not having ever applied for a gun licence I can’t say with 100% certainty, but I am quite confident that if you put ‘I want to’ on your application, you won’t get a licence to hold a firearm.

TJ has it crossed your mind that i would not want to live in a country where ‘because i want to’ was not considered a legitimate answer.

The current legislation makes it a sufficent PITA to put off casual louts while still giving people freedom to live their lives as they see fit

I’m trying to picture Zulu in a Davy Crockett hat and wearing animal skins out doing some pest control using his survivalist skills. Flashfart can be his little doggie sidekick. I reckon they’d be in heaven. Huntin’ and a trappin’ and a campin’ under the stars. At one with nature.

Comparing guns to cars is completely spurious. Please stop.
Why?
They’re both fairly innocuous lumps fo metal if used properly fulfil great utility and pleasure, and if used improperly kill can kill people

Whilst I bow to your greater gun knowledge the only thing i can do with a gun is shoot stuff – it is designed to fire a projectile at high velocity into something t…why you want to compare a thing built to kill/maim /wound to any other object that can be misused to kill is lost on me.

Zulu – riduculous – guns are for killing things – that is what they are designed for

titusrider – I want to live in a country where dangerous weapons are not allowed without good reason and I don’t consider shooting things for fun to be a good reason. Freedom for people to do as they wish so long as it does not impinge upon anothers freedom

Nope, they’re really not, in fact they’re very carefully designed and engineered to be perfectly safe, there has been a huge amount of effort and seceral hundreds of years reactice put into making damn sure that they only go off when you pull the trigger.

Seriously, can you not see the stupidity in what you’re typing?

What is the one purpose of a gun? To help with the washing up?? To help out with the gardening or guide old people safely across the road?

As for your table analogy, I’m sure Nuclear weapons are pretty safe when they’re locked away in a **** off big hanger with the pins still in. It’s pretty clear what they’re designed for though.

Gun ownership got me many many medals and trophies at International level as well and all I did was KILL PAPER!!!!!

I know it’s not fair to you, you have done nothing wrong afterall, but sadly I and I’m guess quite a lot of other folk would opt to have your right to play at putting holes in paper on hold for the greater good of the general populus. Sorry 😥

edit – I put holes in bits of paper every now and then with an air rifle. Does than make me a hypocrite?

Zulu – riduculous – guns are for killing things – that is what they are designed for

And I ask you again, what exactly is wrong with that?

Guns only kill people if you misuse them.

Just like cars only kill people if you misuse them.

TJ, answer the question, geez. How would you assess who is capable of ownership of a firearm…?

“Are you are farmer ?”

No

“**** off then…”

TandemJeremy – Member

Zulu – riduculous – guns are for killing things – that is what they are designed for

And yet you say yourself that different logic should apply to archery, when the only use for a bow is to kill things.

TandemJeremy – Member

guns are for killing things – that is what they are designed for

Target guns are not designed for killing things.

Almost missed your little comment, Elfinsaftey. The use of the word ‘prick’ makes you think I’m angry…?

Yes.

Live a sheltered life do you…?

No.

Car = a form of transport.

Gun = something ultimately designed to kill.

Unless an expert can show me evidence contrary to all the historical reference to the invention of gunpowder and guns….

None of the rifled guns I’ve shot was designed for killing things. They were all designed to comply with the rules of a sporting dicipline, TJ.

You’re wrong. Prick…

8)

Not you, Edukator. It was meant for Elfinnotsafe…

You’re wrong. Prick…

Well done you…

And with that, I’m off

teasel – Member

TJ, answer the question, geez. How would you assess who is capable of ownership of a firearm…?

“Are you are farmer ?”

No

“**** off then…”

Two things – a proper mental health assessment and a good reason for owning the gun.

Erm, no actualy, I’m always right and am never wrong. Scientifically proven.

Which, using such scientific logic as is accepted throughout the World, means that it is in fact you who are wrong.

Soz, but that’s how it is. 😐

Now, try again, without being rude, if you can.

something ultimately designed to kill.

Again, whats the issue with that Fred? whats the problem with killing things? You accepted yourself that this was a perfectly acceptable utility, as farmers use them for that.

the only problem that any of you really seem to have a problem with, is guns being misused to kill people

Well, they don’t just do that on their own, do they?

Elfinsafety – Member

Or just let gun owners keep their guns at home.

I’d really rather not live near anyone who had guns in their home. Speshly if I had kids.
Yes the odds are extremly high that they would come round and kill you and your children that happens every day……….no actually it doesn’t. By the way I don’t like cars and for environmental reasons I think you should have a valid reason for owning one. After all there are busses, trains, car sharing, cycling. Car ownership just means people take unnesecary journeys leading to more roads more pollutin and more destruction of the countryside. And no you don’t need it to get to work move closer. Private car ownership jsut alowes people to move away from work and kill children in there rush to get home.

Yes the odds are extremly high they would come round and kill you and your children that happens every day……….no actually it doesn’t

The more guns there are around, the greater the risk that something bad might happen. Less guns = safer. Scientifically proven fact.

Which, using such scientific logic as is accepted throughout the World, means that it is in fact you who are wrong.

Didn’t you have the same, boringly repetative response the other day when someone else accused you of being wrong, Elfin ?

Do you know what tedium means…?

Northwind – the point about longbows is an interesting one and would require a bit of thought and you rightly pick up an inconsistency. It had never occurred to me before this debate. I think longbows are not attractive tot eh violent fantasists that like to own guns. I do have a crossbow tho 🙂

Hahahahahha – Pwned, Chapeau Northwind 😀

Didn’t you have the same, boringly repetative response the other day when someone else accused you of being wrong, Elfin ?

I expect I did, when faced with someone incapable of displaying any manners and instead resorting to unnecessary insults.

Please be quiet now thx bai.

I do have a crossbow tho

…thank god, I was beginning to think you were a bit odd.

AFAIK you’re not allowed to hunt with bows in the UK, but I guess Z11 will know.

A good point raised a bit higher up.

TJ. Do you want to get rid of Private Gun ownership because you believe it will significantly lower the murder rate in this country, or is it simply that you don’t like them ?

I ask because you started of by making out that “All” these shootings were done with legally owned guns.

When that turned out be made up “TJ Stats” you changed your argument and spent the last five pages arguing semantics over the term “USE”.

I’m not sure I can remember the last shooting incedent round these parts involving human death and I’m pretty sure that a large number of my neighbours have guns at home.

Correct Ian, bowhunting illegal in UK.

a proper mental health assessment and a good reason for owning the gun

I agree with the first bit and the second is already in place. Infact, after this recent event I would imagine the powers-that-be will implement some form of intensive psychological testing in the very near future.

Flange – my tongue was firmly in cheek with that post. FFS…

(again with the eye-rolling)

Tj, ive not had much of a problem with your views on other articles, hell, ive even come close to agreeing with you 🙂 but this close minded and childlike ‘im right and im not listening to anyone else’ attitude is frankly, stupid.

just because you cant see the point in them doesnt means no-one else can. having guns is fun for those who are sensible with them. guns will always be used by criminals to kill people no matter how restrictive you make the laws for legitimate owners.

laws only effect the lawful…

No I know it’s not a perfect solution, just trying to look at options is all.

One of the most sensible posts on this thread,

Removing firing pins could work.

I personally have my guns in a locked cabinet which is in my attic which is only accesable through a small padlocked hatch. This keeps them well out of the way and in a safe place. (not to hand)

I think more money should be put into looking into who is having the guns and the people who go check where the gun cabinets are. The rules are ok there just needs to be a lot more effort into it.

The car remarks aren’t entirely pointless they do kill, but its the way people through them back at the anti-gun crowd that makes it look daft.

TJ may think there is no real use to a gun but I don’t care there are plenty of things in this world I think are pointless but I don’t care as they don’t directly effect me.

simon_g – Member
A life devoid of things that have “no possible utility” would be a very sad one indeed.

What, other than food and warmth has any utility?

I expect I did, when faced with someone incapable of displaying any manners and instead resorting to unnecessary insults.

Nope, it’s just your default setting. You think it’s amusing, others not so much…