@convert Not sure there’s any need to be rude, try and keep it civilised please.

Oh, and neither of your binary choices 👍

So what a lot of people are saying is you can pull out with inpunity when you don’t have any ROW so long as you feel the conditions merit other drivers taking avoiding action.

You’re misunderstanding. They’re saying you can’t fly round a corner, crash into a stationary hazard, and then claim that there is no possibility of fault on your side. Even if you were only doing 59.9999mph in a 60.

If there was a stationary queue of traffic, or a tree, or a works van fixing a wall and you go into the back of it, then SOME fault rests with you. Even if you had ‘right of way’.

The original question was ‘who would be at fault?’ I think the answer is they both would have been.

The OP for pulling out. He may have believed it clear and exercised caution but the fact there was another car on the ROW carriageway evidences his belief to have been wrong.

The other driver for not driving within his ability/conditions/visibility etc

Not black and white and a rapidly changing situation so very very difficult to be definitive but on balance, I would have thought 50/50.

<edit> My point about ROW up thread shouldn’t be taken to imply the person with ROW has carte blanche to do as they please, they don’t. But they do have ROW – it’s an absolute. They also have to exercise caution and drive within the conditions etc. As per Spiderman; with great power comes great responsibility…

That reminds me of the Goofy cartoon from the 1950s – Motor Mania.

Amazingly accurate for something made 70 odd years ago

@convert Not sure there’s any need to be rude, try and keep it civilised please.

Brought it on yourself old boy….

if a lgenerally held belief, might explain the shitfest we have for road discipline nowadays…

You accused everyone try to explain to you in simple syllables the nuance you had clearly missed/ were ignoring that they were responsible for a ‘shitfest’ and clearly beneath your esteemed driving standard. You were rude and discourteous and if that’s not an invitation for a tosspotting I don’t know what is.

Blimey, I haven’t read everything, but the general absence of references to the Highway Code is a bit depressing.

Amazingly accurate for something made 70 odd years ago

Yep – I remember seeing it as a kid and it stuck with me ever since.

I would have thought 50/50.

Seems like it might, but it isn’t. Again, what do the two warning triangles indicate to you on the major road? They should alert you to the fact that just around this bend, there may be some-one pulling out. This is rural Wales, it could be anything from car to tractor with hay cart to school bus.

He may have believed it clear and exercised caution but the fact there was another car on the ROW carriageway evidences his belief to have been wrong.

It’s a blind bend, the fact that there’s a car coming is hidden from the person pulling out, he has no choice other than to rely on the ability of the car on the major road to pay attention. Otherwise, if he can’t see the road is clear beyond where the road disappears around the corner, how is he ever to decide that the road is clear enough to pull out?

But they do have ROW – it’s an absolute.

So what? As you say it’s doesn’t give you carte blanche to drive as if no one else is using the road, the warning triangles are there for a reason. They generally indicate you need to be prepared to do something.

~EDIT~ RoW is dynamic, it’s not fixed. For example If you’re on the major road, and you decide to turn right, you don’t have RoW any longer, you have to give way before making your turn.

It’s a blind bend, the fact that there’s a car coming is hidden from the person pulling out, he has no choice other than to rely on the ability of the car on the major road to pay attention. Otherwise, if he can’t see the road is clear beyond where the road disappears around the corner, how is he ever to decide that the road is clear?

Easy, he has to get out of his vehicle and walk up to the corner to make sure nothing is coming and then run as fast as humanly possible back to the vehicle doing the best 1950s Le Mans start you have ever seen and pull out. That’s the problem with people these days, too lazy to walk.

HGVs and buses often start their maneuvers when the road is clear but it takes so long that by the time they are half way through a car has come along and had to slow down.

If you drove into the side of an HGV half way through pulling out I doubt any insurance company would assign 100% of the blame to the HGV driver (or any of the blame) even though technically the driver already on the main road has right of way.

If this was the case you would think it would be a full time job for some people to drive into the sides of HGVs and buses to claim the insurance.

I think this “right of way” idea is the cause of much unnecessary confusion. Technically, it doesn’t exist.

I’ve skim read the last page as I saw my point of view had already been made.

However, someone mentioned some subtle signage. It’s not subtle, it’s got a florescent yellow background which is only used where there have been multiple accidents resulting in serious injury at that location. A grey/metal background means there have been lesser accidents and still an increased risk.

You see yellow backed signs, you know accidents have resulted from the signed hazard. And a yellow backed skid sign doesn’t mean it’s a slippery road surface, it just means previous accidents have been caused after a skid, which is why you see skid warnings where the road surface already has a high grip surface. Before pedestrian crossings for example.

Looking at that corner I would say that it would be impossible to see an approaching car until it’s less than 30 to 40 meters away.

If the car was traveling at 60 mph it would take it roughly 1 to 1.5 seconds to cover 30 to 40 meters.

I don’t know of any camper van that could go from being stationary to clearing the left lane in less than 1.5 seconds.

I’m not sure what the people who are saying it’s 100% your fault (or even 50/50) think you should have done. Even turning left wouldn’t help in this situation.

Just to stick my oar in…

This is like listening to a right bunch of old farts

general absence of references to the Highway Code

Mine was verbatim for the oldies version. New one is:

146
Adapt your driving to the appropriate type and condition of road you are on. In particular do not treat speed limits as a target. It is often not appropriate or safe to drive at the maximum speed limit take the road and traffic conditions into account. Be prepared for unexpected or difficult situations, for example, the road being blocked beyond a blind bend. Be prepared to adjust your speed as a precaution where there are junctions, be prepared for road users emerging in side roads and country lanes look out for unmarked junctions where nobody has priority be prepared to stop at traffic control systems, road works, pedestrian crossings or traffic lights as necessary try to anticipate what pedestrians and cyclists might do. If pedestrians, particularly children, are looking the other way, they may step out into the road without seeing you.

154. Make sure you can stop within the distance you can see to be clear