Possible demise of CRC / Wiggle

It's 'Self-administration', right?

So, what the execs are probably doing is restructuring Sigma to be profitable. Keep the brands and retailers which look to have a future and then probably packing up the poorer bits to sell (maybe to Sports Direct).

I ordered a cheap 11sp XT derailleur (only £48) on Friday, was delivered Monday. I've placed another order today, for more very competitively priced parts. Fingers crossed CRC keep things going...

How many people are buying trousers and not wearing them for 364 days before raising a return request?

It's the ones which have been used/worn particularly I'm thinking of.
Or the buy a brake etc on the off chance then send it back three months later when you've bought something better or didn't need it in the end by which point they've replenished stock etc.
Or the return it to rebuy it for £5 less than the previous one you bought and so on.

There's always a big part of any volume over distance selling that relys on the customer being too lazy/slow to return things like the two extra sizes of shoes they bought and so on. The longer a window you give the more likely they are too get round to it but also the more likely you are to end up with over stock, old delisted kit and do on.
The also the "it's a huge bargain so I'll buy it in spite of not wanting/needing it" side of things which is great for creating cash flow but coupled with 12 months returns gives a big chunk of time for buyers remorse to set in.

Are they accepting returns at the minute? (seem to think I saw a post up there saying otherwise).

Who arranges shipping if you do return it? (if the answer isn’t them then if it doesn’t get accepted at their end it’s your risk. if it is them then in theory, so long as you’ve proof it was collected you may have recourse further down the line if needed.)

Yes, my return was refunded yesterday (arrived there last Thursday evening).

Just dropped it off at a Evri collection point where they print the label for you and job done.

It’s the ones which have been used/worn particularly I’m thinking of.

Do they not fall foul of any returns policy?

I placed an order for a bike on Monday, order has been processed and it's marked as dispatched.

I'm aware if they go under it could be tricky with warranty but I'd be surprised Nukeproof totally vanish.

Ordered shoes Sunday evening, delivered today. No issues. 

It’s the ones which have been used/worn particularly I’m thinking of.

Do they not fall foul of any returns policy?

Up until fairly recently it was no quibble, to the point they almost encouraged returns of warranty stuff as it was quicker than warrantying it.

They willingly accepted used stuff.

breadcrumb

I’m aware if they go under it could be tricky with warranty but I’d be surprised Nukeproof totally vanish.

You know any new owner is unlikely to be obligated to honour the contract between you and the previous owner of the company.

I’m aware if they go under it could be tricky with warranty but I’d be surprised Nukeproof totally vanish.

[guess mode] nukeproof will end up like muddy fox. Even if the retail arm stays that nukeproof USA has all but vanished makes me suspect it'll be gone in its current form. Expensive to develop, expensive to market, wiggle owned in a crowded market and it's going to be difficult to deliver the USP of value without the buying power of Signa behind them. Loss of supplier and reseller faith following this too.
It'll be sold off as a house brand to someone like Evans, halfords, go outdoors or decathlon. [/guess mode]

That. See above

Neil SuperstarComponents

You know any new owner is unlikely to be obligated to honour the contract between you and the previous owner of the company.

True. It's a gamble I'm willing to take. It's a £800 hardtail, with a quick search no real trend of broken frames.

Anymore than that and I wouldn't of been so eager.

Wouldn't HAVE been so eager.

nukeproof will end up like muddy fox

I mean, I remember nukeproof before nukeproof was nukeproof

I mean, I remember nukeproof before nukeproof was nukeproof

You mean when they made hubs that you might have found on a fancy 90s mountain bike before they cracked?

Wouldn’t HAVE been so eager.

🫡

Surely Nukeproof is a viable brand worth picking up by investors, new products recently launched and extra team members this year suggests they were making a profit regardless of bad business practices by the ownership having lots of eggs in one big basket. It would be an absolute travesty if they vanished.

Bigger brands have come and gone, sometimes twice over.

Look at Iron Horse and Saracen. Plenty more where they came from. It's just a label at the end of the day, once this year's run is gone does it really make any difference?

breadcrumb

I’m aware if they go under it could be tricky with warranty but I’d be surprised Nukeproof totally vanish.
______
You know any new owner is unlikely to be obligated to honour the contract between you and the previous owner of the company.

Agree not likely to see a warranty honoured IF Nukeproof ceased to exist in its current form (and this is all still speculation just now).

There is an argument that if you were buying a hardtail (especially) at current discounts you're unlikely to be far out of pocket even if you break one large ish part.

Let's say the frame breaks then you've still got an entire hardtail of parts at a good price.
With an FS the frame is a bigger part of the price and the economics might not be quite as good.

If I was in the market I'd have no qualms on a Scout but would accept I could end up shopping for a new frame a year or two down the line in the pretty unlikely event I cracked it.

Bit of a risk based decision. Cash benefit of a bargain vs. Probability of breaking it and needing to pay to replace some large part with part of the saving you already made.

Surely Nukeproof is a viable brand worth picking up by investors, new products recently launched and extra team members this year suggests they were making a profit regardless of bad business practices by the ownership having lots of eggs in one big basket. It would be an absolute travesty if they vanished.

IF they disappear it wouldn't surprise me. I guess they (and Vitus) would be hard to value as I doubt their non-CRC sales through LBS's make up much of their turnover? So if CRC goes, any buyer would need to start up from scratch with nothing more than some IP and a rolodex of contacts in Taiwan. They'd need:
New offices,
New staff (assuming all but a few are shared with other parts of the business).
New direct to consumer website?

Speaking of 90's bling brands I'd like to see make a comeback, I reckon Woodman would look good on the side of a range of XC/Trail bikes.

is there a responsibility on the previous owners to realize they are getting into a deal with the devil and think about maybe less growth/profit but greater long term stability?

Is this a thinly veiled British Empire / Gaza reference?

I'm sure Nukeproof would be pleased people think it's such a solid brand.

It was only about 10 or 12 years ago they revived the brand name with that first, round-tubed Mega - and they've made some really good (if sometimes flawed) bikes since then.

Personally I'd like to see them successfully restructure CRC/Wiggle and keep Vitus attached, hopefully with Nukeproof as well.

I really don't think their prices were THAT low to be unsustainably undercutting everyone else. At least not until they started the big discounts this year when they were already in trouble.

It was only about 10 or 12 years ago they revived the brand name with that first, round-tubed Mega

They've been making components a while longer than that. Not sure the brand ever disappeared as such but I think crc bought the name about 15-20 years ago and used it as a house brand for bars stems and the like for a number of years before they started doing frames.

I really don’t think their prices were THAT low to be unsustainably undercutting everyone else. At least not until they started the big discounts this year when they were already in trouble.

I seem to recall they were very much a bargain until the merger with wiggle when vitus took that mantle and NP became more of the premium house brand.

Iirc vitus was wiggle's house brand and as a result mostly road focused, NP was crc and mostly mtb. (part of me thinks that's wrong and wiggle's brand vanished but I can't think what it was called if it did)

Speaking of 90’s bling brands I’d like to see make a comeback, I reckon Woodman would look good on the side of a range of XC/Trail bikes.

Were Woodman ever that "bling"? I remember them being pretty lightweight but non-descript parts - Woolly Hat Shop was a big dealer for them 🙂

Woolly Hat Shop was a big deal

Ah, the 90s, we miss you.

Speaking of 90’s bling brands I’d like to see make a comeback, I reckon Woodman would look good on the side of a range of XC/Trail bikes.

Syncros coming back as proper Syncros would be nice. Or Klein as proper Klein with fancy paint done properly. Not that I'd want a Klein but it's good to have pretty things to look at.

Iirc vitus was wiggle’s house brand and as a result mostly road focused, NP was crc and mostly mtb. (part of me thinks that’s wrong and wiggle’s brand vanished but I can’t think what it was called if it did)

Vitus was bought by Chris and Frank from CRC, and was a CRC house brand.

If I remeber correctly CRC own X-Lite too which is a name some might know from 90s bling products.

Were you even a mountain biker in the 90s if your bike didn't sport X-Lite bar ends!! 🤔

Vitus was bought by Chris and Frank from CRC, and was a CRC house brand

You can't recall wiggle's old brand can you? It's bugging me quite a bit now, as these things do.

@garage-dweller

My thoughts exactly, if the frame were to fail (unlikely) it's only a HT frame, and it would give opportunity for something else at not much £££.

The forks will be swapped for a set of Pikes I have before it turns a wheel, the OE fork will be sold, knocking a few more quid from the purchase cost.

Iirc vitus was wiggle’s house brand and as a result mostly road focused, NP was crc and mostly mtb. (part of me thinks that’s wrong and wiggle’s brand vanished but I can’t think what it was called if it did)
Vitus was bought by Chris and Frank from CRC, and was a CRC house brand.

Verenti was the wiggle equivalent, I had a Rhigos, it was good. I think Vitus having an actual history meant they shoved all of the 'cheaper' own brand stuff under that banner.

Verenti

Thank you!

I still have a saved search on ebay for a 56cm/large Verenti Isolation (the bargain 853 SSCX they were selling off for a daft £300).

Woolly Hat Shop was a big deal

They still exist, mostly selling via ebay.

I get pangs of nostalgia for their wierd / unique / ahead of it's time / overly javascripted website whenever I see their name come up.

They still exist, mostly selling via ebay.

Woolly Hat Shop now trades as www.BikeParts.co.uk

I remember their early website too, nostalgia indeed. The 'thing' I remember clearest from ordering BITD was calling Merlin Cycles with my MBUK paper advert in front of me, and it always being the same bloke who answered the phone with a very cheery "Merlin Cycles!" in a distinctive manner.

If I remeber correctly CRC own X-Lite too which is a name some might know from 90s bling products.

X Lite is now better known as muc-off. Not sure Alex ever sold it on?

If I remeber correctly CRC own X-Lite too which is a name some might know from 90s bling products.

Really?! I thought it just became Muck-off and was quietly retired as a brand name after Rex Trimnell died.

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/x-lite-returns-with-brant-richards-at-helm/

😮

I wanted X-Lite bar-ends so badly when I was a kid, had to make do with Tioga Power Studs.

I'll be back in a day with an amusing bar end related update.

I was more than happy with Onza bar ends. Seem to remember X-lite often being photographed in multiple pieces.

Have bar ends come back for flat-bar gravel yet?

If not, someone should get in there quick and corner the market. Could even be the salvation of Chiggle?

SJS already do a clone of some ergo bar ends, I have a pair and they're ace.

@brant ah well, it's been over 13 years, I'm sure we can wait a bit longer.

I wanted X-Lite bar-ends so badly when I was a kid, had to make do with Tioga Power Studs.

I had some enormous steel ski-bend things from halfords, they were practically wide TT bars.

I’ll be back in a day with an amusing bar end related update.

Moleskin bar ends with brass hardware handmade in Yorkshire?

I’m genuinely surprised they didn’t make a U.K. made boutique brand out of x-lite back when they bought it.

maybe the lure of cheap stuff out of China was too powerful 

Shame really

Neil SuperstarComponents

@superstarcomponents, apparently Muc-off took off so well that they never got round to it.

Nice problem to have…

maybe the lure of cheap stuff out of China was too powerful

For the buying public or crc?

I still have an x-lite fly stem

https://flic.kr/p/o9VN5

I remember X-Lite from the days before I had my own money. Always wanted a Fly stem. Think I bought some of the knurled handlebar plugs from Bike '98 at the NEC or similar.

All hope products vanished !...tech issue or stocks been pulled returned etc ?