[Closed] Pentlands Hillend Mtb development. ?

OOh I didn't know about that, sounds good. I was thinking with the proposed investment in Hillend ski centre it would be good to make a proper stab at a biking centre, as there is a decent enough height different twixt the ski centre and the top of the hill. Getting it through planning would require a serious investment and a lot of work though, and I would be very surprised if anyone could do it given the costs of making it happen.

there was a little downhill track at the side of Hillend ski slope but I take It It was scrapped due to Erosion.

I think it was cos of the lift - they had to stop the chair to get the bikes on, and it always used to proper piss off the skiers.

There's been renewed muttering but I haven't seen anything solid.

Back at the start of the year when i got laid off I thought about having a stab at it myself but I couldn't see it being profitable... But councils have a different remit to private companies so that doesn't mean it can't happen. (Most bike venues aren't profitable in themselves)

I helped construct the original track which ran to the left of the elbow of Hillend ski slope. Dont know what the situation is now though!

Sounds good! 😀

There was mention of some redevelopment of MTB facilities, but given that plans for the site have just been published and they don't include bikes I reckon it has been kicked into the long grass.

I really think you could get make some excellent trails, its really steep at the top from Caerketton, a nice wooded section through the T Woods, skids on the golf course greens and big jumps over the bunkers...if I win the lottery I'll come up with a proposal...

That would be outstanding if it got some traction - truly excellent location for a bike park development in terms of access. It's not Whistler, but you've got some altitude to work with, and with the ski centre in situ you've mitigated the environmental impact somewhat.

Just need to get the pitch polished up for the venture capitalists, wee European grant for fat-fighting and we're all set. Anyone know if the ski centre makes money?

It was making a half a million quid a year loss I think!

Wasn't hillend going to go bust only a year or so ago. Put it this way, never seen it even remotely busy. Id have thought that the current owners would be desperate for a bit of extra revenue. Plus you would think it would be more profitable than somewhere like glentress simply because they'd make the money from the uplift service.

Not convinced it would be all that long if it went from the top of the chair lift though, I'm assuming you'd still need to hike up the hill a fair bit...

Half a million loss pa - Is the ski centre a reasonably-sized operation then? I've never been - would have thought you'd just need to switch the chair lift on and pay a few gadges to collect tickets, work the bar etc.

tpbiker That was my thoughts as well , get the lift to the top then make a switchback climb to the top and downhill track back down . Surely there are more bikers than skiers willing to pay for an uplift and feed there bellies in the cafe.

GT only down the road and look how busy that is.. Inners trying to get a chairlift on the go..
Surely this could have potential? Like someone above says, a further switchback climb to thetop and it would be a decent descent.. Would prob need to take up a bit of room as it zig zags down the hill though, is the land available?

trouble is isn't it run by snow sport scotland, so they'd probably rather it go to the dogs that see their prized possession overrun by rowdy kids on 9 inch full bouncers every weekend..

Would be great fun however, I'd pay!

Garry Lager, Its a pretty decent sized place, must need quite a few salaries to support it, and the leccy bill must be pretty chunky for the lifts and floodlights! I've seen it busy to the point you can't get on, but also its dead most of the time. Also I don't know who the landowner is but the rent could be pretty steep. The military own quite a bit of the pentlands, not sure if they own that bit.

I think in reality making 'commercial' bike tracks from top to bottom would be a real challenge to get through planning and would take a lot of consultancy fees, but you could play the nevis range/glencoe card and pitch it well in that context i reckon.

Suppose if the land is owned by HMFs might be easier to get planning??

So basically there Is half a decent uplift there already and If im not mistaken have a trail running from the top of the hill to the East you have some woods , make a run heading back west to the cafe and you could have a fairly decent downhill trail. Also Its a fairly easy cycle from the centre of Edinburgh . Time to get behind this Fb group.

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Im also fairly sure some of the trail builders of local DH stuff like Carberry and Bonaly would muck In to save costs.

it's like a mini Inners chairlift thread. but no less hilarious or indeed any more likely to happen.

rode the previous "DH" track when I lived up there. no offence to hopefiendboy and those that got off their arses to build it, but it wasn't very good.

lack
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vertical
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Maybe so Proteus but there Is no harm In trying , some of the best Downhill tracks don't really have much vertical height. Just because someone has built a trail in the past that didn't excite dosent mean It couldn't be improved in the future. Look at the height drop in something like Berm baby Berm at Gt , Its not that much maybe 70mtrs at most but If you stand at the bottom you will fail to see anyone who dosent exit with a smile.

proteus - the difference being the chairlift is already there. room to build a couple of different lines Numbers needed to make a profit would b low.

proteus - Member

lack
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vertical

345 foot, which I think is more or less the same as the FOD uplift and UK Bike Park? Not drastically less than Hamsterly or Blandford apparently. Or if you prefer, about twice the height of Laggan's uplift.

stanfree - Member

Look at the height drop in something like Berm baby Berm at Gt , Its not that much maybe 70mtrs at most

Almost bang on 30 metres according to the OS map! Uncanny really.

Well put Northwind - reckon a free ride route would work there? Something to wean the kids off the Nibbler? Speaking of which, what is the height of that trail for comparison? Must be pretty similar...

Not sure exactly where on the map the top of the nibbler is, but if you take the absolute highest point of the hillside it's on, then it's about 350 feet down to the wee bridge over the stream.

So anyway... Like I say, I don't think it'd be likely to be commercially viable, but then lots of things like this aren't. Could it be a goer as a subsidy-magnet? A small year-round running profit that makes Hillend's lift system look less like a white elephant? Unsure. It'd need a pretty full-on approach, half-assing it would just fail again- it's got to attract decent numbers, and decent replay, so that means multiple quality trails to appeal to multiple user groups.

given that the chairlift is already in place and running then addition cost are not high. a fair amount of capital to build the trails ( even using volunteer labour) then up keep would not be a lot. Uplift prices would have to be fairly low to get the custom.

You could get 1/4 - 1/2 mile trails in surely looking at the map - three side by side blue red black with the black able to be used for DH racing

^^sounds good^^!

I read that the Fairmilehead Inn was under new ownership and was going to be developed as an outdoor centre for the Pentlands. Wouldn't harm the MTB cause but a strange choice given its location on the other side of the bypass.

I also heard a rumour that the guy who owns Lothianburn golf course was looking at developing it for MTB riding, which if[i] true would make the Hillend option a much more viable proposition.

Just spoke to hill end on the phone and they are very interested in some kind of trail development.

Are any of the riders on here interested in getting involved with developing the trails/centre?

What I'm thinking of as a starting point is some simple trails and a mini bus with trailer from the main road upto the ski centre then from the ski centre upto the top via the lifts.

There is a building at the bottom of the hill that would be perfect for a small bikeshop/rest spot and all of the rest of the facilities are there!

What are you saying to it STW, do you want to get intvolved in making this happen?

erm, yeah kaesae the game is afoot. All you need is financiers, volunteers, capital, a pricing structure, a business plan, market research, constructors and most importantly a user base....

proteus has a point, inners Mk2 this. If they ever needed confirmation nothing will happen at inners they can look at this in 4 years and see that nothing has happened even though the lift is already there.

Who set up the facebook page? It seems to have fizzled out already. It would take a heck of a lot more than that to show the support and benefit of such a scheme anyway.

I would imagine that, assuming interest and cooperation by all concerned parties, by the time the scheme was designed and put to planning, with consultancy fees and all, it would be a six figure cost to get that far. There would be a lot of opposition in terms of landscape and visual impact alone, and the Friends of the Pentlands would literally explode at the thought of kids messing up their hills hooning around on bikes.

kaesae is the new TJ

How about we think out side of the box for a second here!
No point in making things too complexed with fuddy duddery!

All we need is a lift from the bottom of the hill to the top of the hill, then we ride our bikes back down 😉

Friend of the Pentlands on hearing of this :

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Not sure if that pic will work. Big trouble in little china exploding dude anyway, if it doesn't.

I do think it is a great idea, but would take a huge amount of work.

The main road to ski building isn't far or that steep...can people not ride to it? If so, you have saved a whack of cost as you won't need transport there.

Sounds good but the trails would need to be built properly I.e. designed to keep you coming back, easily maintained, not requiring a huge amount of extnalmaterial shipped in (keeps costs down) and it needs to fit alongside everything else going on there.

I think this has more potential than innerleithen's chairlift idea, but it's going to be an uphill struggle for whoever steps up to do it.

bigjim here's some advice mate, focus on the solution not on the problem.

What ever natural features are there we simply enhance them and start of with some simple trails, if the uplift and trails are popular then we expand on it, if not it doesn't work.

But all it would cost for a mini bus and trailer is about £5,000, this will take care of the DH riders, with the support of MTB'ers to build some simple trails we can have a go at this.

Have you ridden there Kaesae? There's really nothing there in terms of trails atm - you'd be riding down a piss-boring grassy slope. Would require loads of trail building (also need a decent path up to the top as the chair lift goes about 2/3 of the way).

So it's obv pretty speculative as has been stated. Nowhere near as big a stretch as the Innerleithen chairlift would be, that's a terrible comparison tbh.

Yes I've been a few times, but it has to start somewhere, making some simple trails and having a go on them will be the best way to get an idea of what needs to be done to move forward.

If this is going to get started it needs to be simple and inexpensive.
There are loads of features that could be made with wood and other recycled materials.

I'm sure if enough people will pitch in something can be done!

I heard that the field at the back of the petrol station on the main road was going to be used for a "family friendly" bike facility - I don't know what that would look like. I was told by someone who works at Swanston. Might just have been an idea though - conversation happened at a christmas party.

From what I heard is that the council has already been approached about this possibility by 2 people who are very experienced in running a mtb business and have been told that the council wants to concentrate on the skiing side of things for the foreseeable future.

Wonder if anything came of this?
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/edinburgh-mtb-survey

From what I heard is that the council has already been approached about this possibility by 2 people who are very experienced in running a mtb business and have been told that the council wants to concentrate on the skiing side of things for the foreseeable future.

Lots of rumours but this is the one I have also heard.

kaesae - one does not simply walk into the pentlands and start building trails on someone's land. No one is going to allow anything to happen without it all being very organised, legal and consented, not least the landowner and the pentland hills regional park, who manage the park. Any kind of path network would have to be fully agreed on by all stakeholders and things like erosion management would be a priority in somewhere like the pentlands.

I'm not being negative, I think the whole thing would be brilliant, but it isn't just a case of turning up wiht a spade. To get an idea of how difficult it can be, look at the struggle Balerno community council have had trying to get a simple footpath link from Balerno to the pentlands built. People going in gung-ho will just make things worse, it needs to be a coordinate and professional approach to be successful.