And why might I want one….
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Why might I think it an expensive, shiny toy….
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Have always fancied an iphone, but wouldn't sign up to O2. Now that Orange are offering them I can upgrade my existing phone to an iphone, but have as many questions as answers!
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My main question comes down to operating cost – and not just the fixed contract charges, but whether the 3G data costs are going to be prohibitive.
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Sales person could't answer me a vital question regarding the iphone 3GS and (esp) GPS – does the phone need phone network coverage to operate the GPS app. Experience with "normal" GPS units says no – because it is reliant only on loS with the GPS satellite constellation, but some folks have told me that the iphone needs to be able to get phone coverage to access maps to go with the GPS app…..!

If so – a) it's likely going to be sh!te for many of the palces that I would want to go…. and b) going to get bloody expensive if the thing is always looking to dial home for more data (and this question applies to all apps – not just GPS)

So for those that have them – convince me that it is a useful shiny toy, or confirm my prejudice against something (else) that is going to drain my wallet.

Unlimited internet (3g) is free. Well, it is on O2, anyway…. 🙂

It doesn't need phone coverage to operate the GPS and data costs should be included in your tariff (usually subject to "fair usage")

I have one, and can't imagine not having a smartphone now. But the iPhone isn't the only smartphone on the market. Have a look around and see if there's anything you prefer.

G

It's a phone with media capabilities made by Apple. It seems to work very well for a lot of people and there are others who don't see the need for one (I'm a non-believer).

People seem more than happy to pay the 'high price' for the actual unit but monthly charges seem to be inline with other phones – it's now available on Orange, O2 and Vodafone (might be available on others).

GPS system – the built-in version seems to stop working if an incoming call/text is made – but I'd guess if the maps were installed on the actual device then you wouldn't need phone coverage (as no data would need to be transfered), but if the map detail wasn't on the phone then yes you would need phone coverage as it would need to download the maps.

Up to you if you want it, I'd suggest not but I prefer getting into the gubbins of a 'toy' so the fact it's entirely sealed and you can't do anything else to it other than what Apple dictate puts me right off. Battery life is poor (assuming you think it's not ideal to have to charge it daily)…

A lot of folk can't get enough of them, it clearly does work, but whether it works for you will only be found out by you trying it (or not and saving your cash!).

Ok – so the initial Q was tongue in cheek! I like the look of the apple, and the ones I've seen in use look reasonably functional. Heard good things about the HTC Hero as well. Don't have any desires towards a Blackberry…

Unlimited internet (3g) is free. Well, it is on O2, anyway….

That's as maybe for the UK – but timing wise, I was thinking of upgrading before a short spring skiing break, and I'm guessing that outside of the hotel wifi area it could get expensive.

What's an iphone?

For Apple Incorporated of America 'tis the very Philosopher's Stone of which the alchemysts of yore didst but dream. They have trasnmuted plastic, silicon and gimmickry into pots and pots of pure gold!

I'm not an expert, but the iPhone uses Assisted GPS, so if it's struggling to get an accurate signal it'll use the phone network help positioning. As for whether that costs or not I've no idea.

I'd guess it would depend which mapping application you were using as to whether the maps were stored on the phone or on the network.

It's a completely unnecessary and expensive device and if you get one you'll find yourself using it for hours and showing people apps until they start to call you an iPhone bore. Well that's been my experience anyway.

The GPS works fine without a phone signal. You don't say where you want to use it but you should be able to get some sort of unlimited data deal from your provider in the UK, but don't expect to use it outside the UK unless you're prepared for big bills, find a wi-fi service instead. To save you from yourself it doesn't do data roaming unless you explicitly tell it to. The default mapping application will cache maps so if you know where you're going and there's no data service you need to download the maps first. Other applications vary on how they handle this.

Buy an iphone if you want:
1) to be able to use lots of interisting applications on your phone
2) the best internet browsing experience
3) a very well executed touch screen keyboard and navigation experience

Don't buy an iphone if you want:
1) a decent camera
2) a phone that's robust and not too big
3) decent battery life (and using GPS kills the battery)

On the GPS question, you can probably get complete maps downloaded as an app so the GPS may work. The norm is for each map to be downloaded when required so will be very expensive abroad and very slow in remote areas anywhere as it's unlikely to have a 3G signal – e.g. anywhere in Highland Scotland.

If the GPS is the big deal, get a cheaper phone and a proper GPS with maps built in which will work 10x better and integrate with Memory Map etc

an iphone is like any other phone only smugger

I think the short ish answer(s) to your question are:

1. No, it doesn't require a phone signal to use the gps

2. But….Most (all?) mapping applications download the maps as the are needed (ie they are not stored on the phone), thus a phone signal is required.

However, the iphone is a crap device for navigating (out of town) with really – fragile, poor battery life (plus probable need for a phone signal). If you want a gps, by a dedicated one.

p.s. unlimited data (in the UK) will be included in your iphone plan, so you won't have to pay extra for it (unless you are abroad, which is ridiculously expensive).

hat's as maybe for the UK – but timing wise, I was thinking of upgrading before a short spring skiing break, and I'm guessing that outside of the hotel wifi area it could get expensive.

Yeah, data roaming (i.e. using a data connection on a foreign network) is generally a killer on ALL phones on ALL UK networks and should avoided at all costs.

The iPhone has a specific "Allow Data Roaming" setting, which will be Off by default and should probably stay that way.

IME, it is generally fairly easy to find an open wifi connection when abroad. Coffee shops, hotels etc are usually good candidates.

As for GPS: the built-in app is basically Google Maps, so it needs a data connection to actually download the bits of the map you are looking at.

However, most of the decent GPS apps available have the ability to load areas of map onto the phone so no data connection is needed.

As verses says, it does use Assisted GPS, but only if a suitable data connection is available. It will still get a GPS lock and do mapping without a data connection, though the initial lock will take slightly longer.

GPS will work without the phone bit – so it will know where it is. The built in google maps needs a data connection to download the maps though. There are plenty of options for satnav or OS mapping that are stored on the device though so it will go on working even with no phone signal.

As said, on O2 you get "unlimited" data, the others cap it but it's a long way above any reasonable use (I'm a pretty heavy user and only average about 300Mb/month download over 3G so Orange's 750Mb/month is loads).

For use abroad, it can be pricey (O2 – £3/mb in EU, £6/mb outside) but the default setting is for "data roaming" to be set to off, so it will work as a phone for calls/texts but won't let anything connect for data. You can happily use wifi points in the hotel and elsewhere but no risk of running up roaming charges. If you think you'll need it, you can add an international data bolt-on that makes that cheaper and you can just have it for the months you'll need it.

if you are gps oriented you can actually bu the tomtom app for them for approx £70 (if ever you felt the need……)

I was thinking of upgrading before a short spring skiing break

There are quite a few skiing apps, including ones that use the GPS to show you where you are on the slopes, like iTrialMap 3D, and ones that can overlay navigation info like REALSki: http://www.rtp.com/company/realski.aspx

In terms of iPhone vs other smart phones: use the search, this has been squabbled over loads recently. Other smartphones exist and are better at some things and worse at others. Pick the one that is right for you.

iTrialMap 3D looks interesting, and may sway me! A few colleagues have also recommended this. It also has the resort(s) that i'm off to and can pre-load maps

I saw a feller drop one onto a concrete pavement recently. I thought he was gong to cry. 😥

They are an exciting glimpse into what technology will be available in a couple of years, but they're a bit limited for now. A luxury item really.

iTrialMap 3D looks interesting

It's a total gimmick.

It is quite cool being able to see where you are on a fully-rotatable 3D rendering of the mountain – but it is of no practical use at all.

Having a piste map on the phone is partially useful (if you lose your paper one maybe), but it doesn't show you where you are on the piste map, so not exactly handy.

I saw a feller drop one onto a concrete pavement recently. I thought he was gong to cry.

I've done that several times with mine, without any protective cover, and it's perfectly fine.

They are an exciting glimpse into what technology will be available in a couple of years, but they're a bit limited for now.

Technology is always going to be a bit limited compared to what will be available in a couple of years time.

Personally I don't find the iPhone (or HTC equivalent smartphone) particularly "limited". If anything it has fundamentally changed how I use the web.

I've done that several times with mine, without any protective cover, and it's perfectly fine.

This one wasn't. Completely smashed.

The iphone is 'limited' in that it lacks a few fundamental features that could make it really useful, such as effective Bluetooth capability with data transfer, the ability to use it as a portable storage device, optical connection, storage expansion via SD card or similar, and a front mounted camera.

The real beauty of the iphone, is the marketing that has created such a mythical status of such a device. Nobody 'needs' one, but everybody wants one.

The real beauty of the iphone, is the marketing that has created such a mythical status of such a device. Nobody 'needs' one, but everybody wants one.

You should copyright that idea. It's very original.

I think it's been done before! 😀

"whats an i phone?….but have as many questions as answers!"

theres an app for that!

If you have as many questions as answers, then surely that's ok then isn't it?

Do the answers cancel the questions out though?

it lacks a few fundamental features

none of those features sound remotely "fundamental" to me. If they could be added without adding size, weight, cost or security issues then I probably wouldn't say no, but I can't say I'm especially missing any of them at the moment.

The real beauty of the iphone, is the marketing…

🙄 it's hard to believe, but not every iPhone user is an Apple devotee blinded by clever marketting. Some folk like it purely because it is actually quite good.

Nobody 'needs' one

well no, but without one I'd be sat here reading the papers at lunch, rather than wittering on here. 😀

iTrialMap 3D looks interesting

It's a total gimmick.

In that it doesn't work well – or in that it's not a "useful" app?

Surely wanting to know where, how long and how fast is a suitable amusing / interesting gimmick…

… in the same way as a bike computer provides similar info – of little use to say navigation, but interesting to see what you've done?

it's hard to believe, but not every iPhone user is an Apple devotee blinded by clever marketting.

Rough estimate of number of Apple devotees is given by sales of Apple computers: about half a dozen.

Rough estimate of iPhone users: several zillion.

Ergo, to claim that iPhone users are all Apple fanbois seems to be complete blx.

But we knew that already …

I have 2 apple computers (and love them), but I got rid of my iPhone after about 1 month, because I hated it.

What does that make me?

What does that make me?

<sits on hands> 🙂

In that it doesn't work well – or in that it's not a "useful" app?
Surely wanting to know where, how long and how fast is a suitable amusing / interesting gimmick…

Well its USP and raisin-deterrerer is showing a little 3D rendering of the the mountain and your position on it. This works just fine and is amusing (once) but entirely useless to actually navigate by (if that's what you wanted to do).

Yes it can also show you Lat, Long, Elevation, Total Distance and Total Vert – which are interesting enough, but other apps also do this and are free.

Interesting how every topic about anything Apple makes always descends into a pro/anti argument! 🙂

Back OT – I'm a great fan of Runkeeper on the iPhone for running and biking. It's a good app for tracking but not brilliant for navigation, so depends what you're after. I've also used it whilst skiing, and if you're going off-piste it's great for seeing where you've been. If you want to view the maps whilst you're on the mountain you'll need a data connection but once you're back in the resort you can use wi-fi to download the maps and see where you've been, how fast, elevation profiles etc. Also can be used to provide co-ordinates to tell the rescue helicopter where to come if you need it…

raisin-deterrerer

I'd quite like one of those. I can't stand raisins.

Or sultanas.

I can't stand raisins.

You just want a normal raisin-deterrer then.

A raisin-deterrerer is for people who like raisins and wish to prevent them being deterred.

Well, maybe I need a raisin deterrererer then? 😕

raisin-deterrerer

Please tell me you are s***ing us?

I'm s***ing you.

The iTrailMap app is absolutely rubbish at deterring any form of dried fruit, or indeed any dried fruit deterrers 😀

I don't mind dried apricots.

The iphone is 'limited' in that it lacks a few fundamental features that could make it really useful, such as effective Bluetooth capability with data transfer, the ability to use it as a portable storage device, optical connection, storage expansion via SD card or similar, and a front mounted camera.

None of those is particularly useful at all. I've had winmo phones that had those features (except "optical connection" – wtf?) and none got used except a quick try-out when I got the device. Bluetooth is too slow for bulky things like music/movies and everything else can go over the air (why bother bluetoothing photos when you can upload them straight to flickr?). As for front-mounted cameras, I thought the idea of 3G video calling was dead and buried – no-one used it, no-one wants to.