Orange – why no short travel 26" single pivot bike?

Home Forum Bike Forum Orange – why no short travel 26" single pivot bike?

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 80 total)
  • Orange – why no short travel 26" single pivot bike?
  • Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    I think they found with the Sub 3 that the reduction in travel didn;t result in much of a reduction in weight.

    Most people with ‘short’ travel bikes probably perceive single pivot as too ‘bobby’ for the type of riding that they want to do (rightly or wrongly).

    Premier Icon Angus Wells
    Subscriber

    Try the Gyro. 120mm, which is about 110mm plus 10mm.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    It would be VERY HEAVY?

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    Gyro ?? 110mm at the rear and 120mm at the front. 30.9mm seatpost and guides for a dropper post too.

    kudos100
    Member

    Oh yes, no wagon wheels, 26″ only.

    munrobiker
    Member

    Because chances are you’d have more fun on a Five for practically no weight gain.

    I have a Five and an Anthem and sort of see your point, but if I only needed one bike it’d be the Five with a lighter build.

    They did build the ST4, Mr XC and Sub 3 and no one bought them, so there’s not much point in them investing in that sort of thing again.

    Premier Icon Alex
    Subscriber

    I had a couple of ST4s that were just like that. Not much lighter than a 5 I guess but very different to ride. Pretty sure the Gyro killed it off.

    kudos100
    Member

    Because chances are you’d have more fun on a Five for practically no weight gain.

    Not a chance. I have much more fun on a short travel bike.

    “140mm is fine” they said. “You might as well have the extra 30mm” they said. And a thousand authors of “overbiked” threads felt a shiver down their spines and knew that something was wrong in the world.

    munrobiker
    Member

    Not a chance. I have much more fun on a short travel bike.

    You need better trails.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Because chances are you’d have more fun on a Five for practically no weight gain.

    Is that another way of saying they can’t make a light XC bike?

    Premier Icon Alex
    Subscriber

    Hmm, My experience of the ST4 in the Malverns/FoD/Yat/Pyrenees/Quantocks/Peaks/etc was that you could definitely find the limits on big rocky stuff but you had a heck of a lot of fun getting there. It was a very poppy bike, a compromise yes but just lots of fun to ride anywhere and most (and I mean most) of the time, rider was the high water mark.

    My mate on his 5 was faster on the very rocky descents but when I rode that 5, I didn’t like it. Probably as I wasn’t prepared to go fast enough to make it fun like the ST4.

    I rode 2 ST4s (first one broke and ended up with the 2010 version with top tube mounted shock) over 3500kms. Probably wanted a bigger bike about 5% of that.

    Still I’ve got the rocket now so I’m overbiked all the time to make up.

    olie
    Member

    A 100mmish “5” with a slack head angle and steep seat angle would rock!

    Dropper seat post, maxles, big tyres, big bars and a 1 by. Perfect!

    munrobiker
    Member

    Is that another way of saying they can’t make a light XC bike?

    The Elite frame was about 2.5lbs.

    But no, they couldn’t make a light full suspension bike for toffee. I didn’t envy Hannah Barnes doing the Transvesubienne on 29lbs of Gyro.

    kudos100
    Member

    A 100mmish “5” with a slack head angle and steep seat angle would rock!

    Dropper seat post, maxles, big tyres, big bars and a 1 by. Perfect

    This is exactly what I’m after. I guess there is no market for this as most people prefer longer travel.

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    You can’t blame Orange for not making a short travel 26″ bike. Does anybody make a short travel bike with small wheels any more?

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    Cy was canvassing opinions on whether to go for a 130mm Soulalike to run alongside the Rocket or to go for somethign with similar geometry but with 100mm or travel that woudl take 120mm forks.

    He’s now developing a 130mm FS Soul which shows where he thinks his commercial interests lie.

    I do think it would be an intersting project to give someone like 18bikes if I had the cash…

    There’s no market because of all of the huge mountains to launch their Fives down in Surrey.

    Not a chance. I have much more fun on a short travel bike.

    The problem is the 5’s downtube is what makes the pivot stiff. Making it a 4″ bike wouldn’t reduce the weight as you’d probably need the same downtube, swingarm, etc.

    You could probably get there with a bit more air in the shock, offset bushes (or just a short shock), slackset and short forks.

    butterbean
    Member

    You can’t blame Orange for not making a short travel 26″ bike. Does anybody make a short travel bike with small wheels any more?

    Not really, because it’s a dead market now.

    Niche manufacturers like Cotic can get away with it, because their production runs would be minute, even compared to smaller manufacturers like Orange.

    They simply would’t sell in a volume high enough to make it an economically viable option.

    joeegg
    Member

    I had a Sub3 and later on a 5.
    The Sub 3 was too heavy and the pivot point produced terrible kickback up rocky stuff . It was very strong frame though.
    The ST4 was produced as some people at Orange felt they were losing sales due to the growing popularity of multi pivots.The ST4 frame was no lighter than the 5 but was solely brought in to fill a perceived gap.
    Orange did produce prototypes with a mind to replacing the 5.
    I rode one for about 18 months and felt it was a far superior bike to the 5 but was not a traditional Orange folded and welded type of design.This may have put off traditionalists.
    If you’re going to make something shorter travel buyers also expect it to be lighter but in my experience Orange design for toughness and reliability first rather than cutting weight down to the bone.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    I’ve always thought their design gets better the bigger the bike? The shortcomings don’t seem as big an issue and the simplicity works well.

    roverpig – Member

    Does anybody make a short travel bike with small wheels any more?

    Loads tbh… Anthem X 26 is still the best selling Giant full suss apparently. But fork inflation means 120mm or even 130mm is seen as short travel now.

    Colin-T
    Member

    The Sub-5 had around 110mm travel.

    I still love my Sub-5.

    scruff
    Member

    As no-one buys 29ers any more and 650b is ‘everywhere’ but I’ve only ever seen 1, then short travel nimble 26” bikes could be the next big thing.

    munrobiker
    Member

    Anthem X 26 is still the best selling Giant full suss apparently.

    I didn’t realise they still made the Anthem in 26″, I assumed with all the fluff about 29ers that they’d stopped making it. Thank god for that- I was wondering what I’d do when mine died.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    not any more, I think giant is a 29 only company these days.

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    OK, here’s a plan:

    Buy an older (~2006) Five frame from ebay. Send it to Orange, who will replace the bearings and paint it so that it looks like a new bike.

    Fit a Works Components 1 degree headset and some offset bushings. Add a nice light 120mm fork and the lightest wheels and kit you can afford.

    That should get you a (relatively) light single pivot with 120mm travel and slack angles.

    @Northwind: I’m surprised that the 26″ Anthem is still Giant’s best seller. I wonder if that is just in some markets? It’s hard to believe that they sell many in the States.

    kudos100
    Member

    I’d love a single pivot bike with about 110mm travel. Perfect for most of the uk. I had a cannondale rush which was great, but had a 27.2 seatpost.

    Not sure of the reasons why, maybe it would take away from 5 sales, or not enough demand?

    GaryLake
    Member

    I didn’t envy Hannah Barnes doing the Transvesubienne on 29lbs of Gyro.

    Did hers really weight that? Mine’s 29lb (real and verified) with a Hans Dampf/Nobby Nic combo and a dropper (1×10 admittedly). Racier wheels and tyres and it’s 27lb…

    I did the Wales Coast to Coast non-stop on 28.5lb of Superfly and the bike weight was the last thing on my mind…

    Regarding a shorter travel 26er Orange – as mentioned, the ST4 was exactly that. It was brilliant and much like the Commencal Meta 4. Problem is, it was barely any lighter and most people didn’t get it.

    It seem to have worked in 29″ guise as there’s a decent weight diff and enough of a geo difference between the Five29 and the Gyro (Five29 is a good 2-3lb heavier)

    Although I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Gyro go the way of the ST4 as everyone buys Five29s regardless of whether they’d have more fun on a Gyro…

    munrobiker
    Member

    Mike- there are three models of the Anthem X in 26″ on the Giant UK site. And they’re doing 650b hardtails next year.

    I still don’t see many 29ers on the trails and I suspect your average bike buyer is still someone who doesn’t read many magazines and doesn’t ride very hard. And likes to stick to what they know- so end up with a 26″ Anthem. They’re used to the wheel size and it’ll handle Sherwood Pines (or Cannock/Swinley/insert relatively tame local trail name here) nicely.

    kudos100
    Member

    Already done something similar with a giant trance x.

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    Getting a bit off-topic, but I’d love to know what Hannah really thought of her Gyro on that event. She’s light enough and fit enough for weight to matter. I, on the other hand, am not. I could probably lose another 10 lb before I counted as underweight and even a modest training programme would probably give me a 10% increase in power to weight ratio. So, I’m certainly not going to worry about a couple of pound here or there (as it’s only 1% of the total weight).

    I still don’t see many 29ers on the trails and I suspect your average bike buyer is still someone who doesn’t read many magazines and doesn’t ride very hard.

    I think there’s an element of truth there.

    But I’d put it down to most people buy a bike, and ride iut untill it’s compeltley busted (or never ride it enough to completely bust it). So there’s a 4-5 year delay between “29ers are outselling everying” and “29ers are all you see on the trails”, so that’s proabbly at least another 3-4 years off. Even on STW the number of people buying a new bike every year is probably only a small minority. i probably do, but most are cheep flings and borderline disposable (2nd hand singlespeeds etc), the big £2k+ purchases are probably every 4-5 years at least.

    Ditto it’ll probably be another 8 years before 650b becomes the default small wheel option (if it happens at all).

    Premier Icon FOG
    Subscriber

    I have a commencal super 4 which I run with 120mm rebas [originally 100mm] and 100mm rear travel which is more or less what you describe. It is an excellent bike, weighs 27lb in current spec and can deal with a lot more than I can. However I have only seen 2 others in the 4 years I have had it and I notice that when they come up 2nd hand there isn’t a rush of posts demanding them. Even taking into account Crackencals reputation nobody seems to want this style of bike even though I suspect they would suit a lot more people than would admit it.
    When the time comes to replace I will be looking for whatever shorter travel FS Cotic come up with as I am very happy with my Soul.

    Premier Icon ddmonkey
    Subscriber

    No-one makes short travel bikes for 26″ wheels any more, because it’s a dead market now – except Transition, Banshee, Pivot, Specialized, to name a few…. 🙂

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    mikewsmith – Member

    I think giant is a 29 only company these days.

    Nah, they still do most of their lynchpin models in 26- Anthem, Trance, Talon, Reign, even the XTC Composite race bike surprisingly. Just had a quick look and I don’t think they have a single 29er only model. Though they’ve dropped the Anthem X for the US, it’s a big deal in the rest of the world (and Giant don’t seem to do that Specialized thing of “The USA is EVERTHING”)

    When the time comes to replace I will be looking for whatever shorter travel FS Cotic come up with as I am very happy with my Soul.

    Didn’t Cy say that if it did happen it’d be no lighter or better pedaling than the Rocket?

    Effectively it’d be worse for the sake of it.

    Personaly I prefer short travel bikes to be steep angles and long stem. If the trails smooth enough not to need more travel then it’s smooth enough no to need such stable angles.

    1981miked
    Member

    Im after a short travel FS aswell, having ridden a 5 and an St4 I preferred the overall ride of the St, the 5 was ace going down but a bit of a slog on the ups, the St was not much slower going down for me but noticeably quicker up and along.. Felt like riding a hardtail. So If anybody had a 16″ Orange St4 or Commencal Meta 4 let me know.

    Mikedonald@hotmaildotcom.

    Merci.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 80 total)

The topic ‘Orange – why no short travel 26" single pivot bike?’ is closed to new replies.