Orange – why no short travel 26" single pivot bike?
Because chances are you’d have more fun on a Five for practically no weight gain.
I have a Five and an Anthem and sort of see your point, but if I only needed one bike it’d be the Five with a lighter build.
They did build the ST4, Mr XC and Sub 3 and no one bought them, so there’s not much point in them investing in that sort of thing again.Posted 4 years agoAlexSubscriber
Hmm, My experience of the ST4 in the Malverns/FoD/Yat/Pyrenees/Quantocks/Peaks/etc was that you could definitely find the limits on big rocky stuff but you had a heck of a lot of fun getting there. It was a very poppy bike, a compromise yes but just lots of fun to ride anywhere and most (and I mean most) of the time, rider was the high water mark.
My mate on his 5 was faster on the very rocky descents but when I rode that 5, I didn’t like it. Probably as I wasn’t prepared to go fast enough to make it fun like the ST4.
I rode 2 ST4s (first one broke and ended up with the 2010 version with top tube mounted shock) over 3500kms. Probably wanted a bigger bike about 5% of that.
Still I’ve got the rocket now so I’m overbiked all the time to make up.Posted 4 years agowwaswasSubscriber
Cy was canvassing opinions on whether to go for a 130mm Soulalike to run alongside the Rocket or to go for somethign with similar geometry but with 100mm or travel that woudl take 120mm forks.
He’s now developing a 130mm FS Soul which shows where he thinks his commercial interests lie.
I do think it would be an intersting project to give someone like 18bikes if I had the cash…Posted 4 years ago
Not a chance. I have much more fun on a short travel bike.
The problem is the 5’s downtube is what makes the pivot stiff. Making it a 4″ bike wouldn’t reduce the weight as you’d probably need the same downtube, swingarm, etc.
You could probably get there with a bit more air in the shock, offset bushes (or just a short shock), slackset and short forks.Posted 4 years agobutterbeanMember
You can’t blame Orange for not making a short travel 26″ bike. Does anybody make a short travel bike with small wheels any more?
Not really, because it’s a dead market now.
Niche manufacturers like Cotic can get away with it, because their production runs would be minute, even compared to smaller manufacturers like Orange.
They simply would’t sell in a volume high enough to make it an economically viable option.Posted 4 years agojoeeggMember
I had a Sub3 and later on a 5.Posted 4 years ago
The Sub 3 was too heavy and the pivot point produced terrible kickback up rocky stuff . It was very strong frame though.
The ST4 was produced as some people at Orange felt they were losing sales due to the growing popularity of multi pivots.The ST4 frame was no lighter than the 5 but was solely brought in to fill a perceived gap.
Orange did produce prototypes with a mind to replacing the 5.
I rode one for about 18 months and felt it was a far superior bike to the 5 but was not a traditional Orange folded and welded type of design.This may have put off traditionalists.
If you’re going to make something shorter travel buyers also expect it to be lighter but in my experience Orange design for toughness and reliability first rather than cutting weight down to the bone.NorthwindSubscriber
I’ve always thought their design gets better the bigger the bike? The shortcomings don’t seem as big an issue and the simplicity works well.
roverpig – Member
Does anybody make a short travel bike with small wheels any more?
Loads tbh… Anthem X 26 is still the best selling Giant full suss apparently. But fork inflation means 120mm or even 130mm is seen as short travel now.Posted 4 years ago
OK, here’s a plan:
Buy an older (~2006) Five frame from ebay. Send it to Orange, who will replace the bearings and paint it so that it looks like a new bike.
Fit a Works Components 1 degree headset and some offset bushings. Add a nice light 120mm fork and the lightest wheels and kit you can afford.
That should get you a (relatively) light single pivot with 120mm travel and slack angles.
@Northwind: I’m surprised that the 26″ Anthem is still Giant’s best seller. I wonder if that is just in some markets? It’s hard to believe that they sell many in the States.Posted 4 years agoGaryLakeMember
I didn’t envy Hannah Barnes doing the Transvesubienne on 29lbs of Gyro.
Did hers really weight that? Mine’s 29lb (real and verified) with a Hans Dampf/Nobby Nic combo and a dropper (1×10 admittedly). Racier wheels and tyres and it’s 27lb…
I did the Wales Coast to Coast non-stop on 28.5lb of Superfly and the bike weight was the last thing on my mind…
Regarding a shorter travel 26er Orange – as mentioned, the ST4 was exactly that. It was brilliant and much like the Commencal Meta 4. Problem is, it was barely any lighter and most people didn’t get it.
It seem to have worked in 29″ guise as there’s a decent weight diff and enough of a geo difference between the Five29 and the Gyro (Five29 is a good 2-3lb heavier)
Although I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Gyro go the way of the ST4 as everyone buys Five29s regardless of whether they’d have more fun on a Gyro…Posted 4 years ago
Mike- there are three models of the Anthem X in 26″ on the Giant UK site. And they’re doing 650b hardtails next year.
I still don’t see many 29ers on the trails and I suspect your average bike buyer is still someone who doesn’t read many magazines and doesn’t ride very hard. And likes to stick to what they know- so end up with a 26″ Anthem. They’re used to the wheel size and it’ll handle Sherwood Pines (or Cannock/Swinley/insert relatively tame local trail name here) nicely.Posted 4 years ago
Getting a bit off-topic, but I’d love to know what Hannah really thought of her Gyro on that event. She’s light enough and fit enough for weight to matter. I, on the other hand, am not. I could probably lose another 10 lb before I counted as underweight and even a modest training programme would probably give me a 10% increase in power to weight ratio. So, I’m certainly not going to worry about a couple of pound here or there (as it’s only 1% of the total weight).Posted 4 years ago
I still don’t see many 29ers on the trails and I suspect your average bike buyer is still someone who doesn’t read many magazines and doesn’t ride very hard.
I think there’s an element of truth there.
But I’d put it down to most people buy a bike, and ride iut untill it’s compeltley busted (or never ride it enough to completely bust it). So there’s a 4-5 year delay between “29ers are outselling everying” and “29ers are all you see on the trails”, so that’s proabbly at least another 3-4 years off. Even on STW the number of people buying a new bike every year is probably only a small minority. i probably do, but most are cheep flings and borderline disposable (2nd hand singlespeeds etc), the big £2k+ purchases are probably every 4-5 years at least.
Ditto it’ll probably be another 8 years before 650b becomes the default small wheel option (if it happens at all).Posted 4 years agoFOGSubscriber
I have a commencal super 4 which I run with 120mm rebas [originally 100mm] and 100mm rear travel which is more or less what you describe. It is an excellent bike, weighs 27lb in current spec and can deal with a lot more than I can. However I have only seen 2 others in the 4 years I have had it and I notice that when they come up 2nd hand there isn’t a rush of posts demanding them. Even taking into account Crackencals reputation nobody seems to want this style of bike even though I suspect they would suit a lot more people than would admit it.Posted 4 years ago
When the time comes to replace I will be looking for whatever shorter travel FS Cotic come up with as I am very happy with my Soul.NorthwindSubscriber
mikewsmith – Member
I think giant is a 29 only company these days.
Nah, they still do most of their lynchpin models in 26- Anthem, Trance, Talon, Reign, even the XTC Composite race bike surprisingly. Just had a quick look and I don’t think they have a single 29er only model. Though they’ve dropped the Anthem X for the US, it’s a big deal in the rest of the world (and Giant don’t seem to do that Specialized thing of “The USA is EVERTHING”)Posted 4 years ago
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-au/bike-finder/everyone/offroad/?level=allPosted 4 years ago
apart from the kids & reign it’s 29 only for Oz
When the time comes to replace I will be looking for whatever shorter travel FS Cotic come up with as I am very happy with my Soul.
Didn’t Cy say that if it did happen it’d be no lighter or better pedaling than the Rocket?
Effectively it’d be worse for the sake of it.
Personaly I prefer short travel bikes to be steep angles and long stem. If the trails smooth enough not to need more travel then it’s smooth enough no to need such stable angles.Posted 4 years ago1981mikedMember
Im after a short travel FS aswell, having ridden a 5 and an St4 I preferred the overall ride of the St, the 5 was ace going down but a bit of a slog on the ups, the St was not much slower going down for me but noticeably quicker up and along.. Felt like riding a hardtail. So If anybody had a 16″ Orange St4 or Commencal Meta 4 let me know.
Merci.Posted 4 years ago
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