AlexSimon – Taiwan and China aren’t the same.

Depends who you talk to but fair point.

Kryton57 – A day, week, month or year?

What do you think?

If I had to put money on a bike lasting ride after ride through a couple of UK winters with minimal servicing, it would be an Orange every time, not a Canyon.

Buy a spare then. You can buy 2 Canyons with similar level kit for the same money.

Whats the average working class income now? It can’t be over 15k gross.

I think we may have a different idea of what dictates someones class, for me it’s more the mindset and the level of disposable income.

Anyone who can justify £6k on a mountain bike need not kid themselves is all I’m saying. I appreciate good workmanship as much as the next guy but I draw my lines with the bike market.. hence riding a £2.5k top spec Capra which is the most expensive bike I’ve ever bought and the only full bike I’ve ever justified buying.

I think the majority of the industry is mental – bikes have inflated well beyond the cost of technologies.

I don’t imagine YT’s production line is a horrific place to work and I certainly don’t value one life over another so I’m not going to be patriotic to supporting UK workers rights over just “workers rights”.

God I love it when Orange bikes are mentioned on here the hate only fuels my desire to buy another.

The stage 6 is this years black (for 2015 it was the capra 2016 was the 5010 )

Frame only will be the way forward and spec as I see fit , I don’t own a Rangerover /Audi or AMG neither do I own a Breitling Omega all the way

My orange bikes have all brought a smile to my face ,and work without fault in all conditions , pivots I change myself in minutes simple fun bikes . We delivery to both factory and showroom so maybe a little affiliation with the company ,but I love they way the look and ride . So need now to explain to SHMBO why I need another frame from Yorkshire

Class is a very outdated and abused system these days.

alexxx – I certainly don’t value one life over another so I’m not going to be patriotic to supporting UK workers rights over just “workers rights”.

Also a very good point.

thepodge – Member

What do you think?

I think I’m going to get the worn bearings in my Anthem replaced by my LBS, therefore shoring up the UK economy for far less of a personal contribution than buying the very latest design in filing cabinets.

That Orange is over priced and they are just following market trends in relation to costs.. and it still looks like a shitting dog!

Eh? Isn’t this the shitting dog look:

filing cabinets

BINGO

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/orange-bikes-launches-two-new-29ers-2017.html

not sure the pinkbike commentators approve.

Depends who you talk to but fair point.

The only people who will tell you they are the same are the members of the PRC government who claim ownership of Taiwan and the ROC government who claim ownership of the Chinese mainland. Taiwan separated from China after the Chinese civil war when then PRC deposed the ROC from the mainland. For decades China has insisted that no country consider Taiwan an independent state if they wish to trade with China.

It’s disappointing that so many threads on here end up as moaning about however much stuff costs – you aren’t obliged to buy this new stuff (I’m extremely happy with my three year old full-sus and have no intention to replace it for a long time) but if you have the money, then why not?

These bikes are a damn sight less expensive that the money spent on cars by many people – and I’ve yet to come across lots of millionaires working in the bike industry, so I’m not sure where these vast profits are going?

Are filing cabinets not pressed steel? If so surely more accurate description of a cotic ?

There’s a scary cooincidence going on:

http://www.staples.com/aluminum+file+cabinet/directory_aluminum+file+cabinet

http://www.cb2.com/tps-carbon-3-drawer-filing-cabinet/s630139

http://www.staples.co.uk/filing-
cabinets/cbk/438.html

http://www.scanoptics.co.uk/electronic-filing-cabinet

Better get back to work I suppose…

Buy a spare then. You can buy 2 Canyons with similar level kit for the same money.

No you can’t, you can buy two canyons but not the same spec the same spec is

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/mtb/strive/2017/strive-cf-9-0-race.html

By the way want to do a frame only canyon build. The frame is £2600. Orange will start around £1600. That said who the hell would buy a canyon frame only to build up at that price!?!?

How are Orange still surviving…

Probably cos you don’t work for them.

Comparisons with other brands which use dealer networks would be more helpful.

You can bash any traditional bike company with direct sales pricing, not just Orange.

No you can’t, you can buy two canyons but not the same spec the same spec is

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/mtb/strive/2017/strive-cf-9-0-race.html

Wait, what? Aren’t we comparing to:

https://www.orangebikes.co.uk/bikes/stage-5-le

The Canyon you linked you has £1000 groupset, that Orange has a £300 one. The wheels on the Canyon are double the price. Not to mention it’s carbon.

No, I was comparing to the £2500-2900 sort of models. Aluminium, GX instead of XT. Admittedly those Lyric RC are only £700 to the £850 Fox, that’s about it though? Tragically I’d bet money the Canyons frame would be a good chunk lighter.

The main difference is you’re spending £3000 for some guy to weld it together and a distributor to shift it around. I still think they’d be more competitive if they sold direct.

I’m going to buy one and will do so because I can.
Your a long time dead and shit 3 4k 5k who cares .
It’s worth the extra as I’m proud it’s made in UK .
That’s the main reason for me .Yes I know there’s better performing cheaper bikes but that’s not the point for me.
Orange won’t give a damm about this thread in fact it’s become a bit of acceptance and gloss over. But does it matter really.

^^^^ This

I’m going to buy one and will do so because I can.
Your a long time dead and shit 3 4k 5k who cares .
It’s worth the extra as I’m proud it’s made in UK .
That’s the main reason for me .Yes I know there’s better performing cheaper bikes but that’s not the point for me.

Thanks for that, my wife & kids will be so pleased for me after I cancelled our annual holiday and I’ve used your responses in defence of my new bike delivery.

Big-Bud – Member

I’m going to buy one and will do so because I can.
Your a long time dead and shit 3 4k 5k who cares .
It’s worth the extra as I’m proud it’s made in UK .

Not going to testride it or anything? Made in the UK doesn’t mean you’ll like it. Or are you just going to do a Grantway and tell yourself it’s better than all these other bikes you’ve never ridden?

Grantway

Oh man, I’d not heard that name in a while. Amazing guy.

My only issue I’m moaning about is that the new ones seem a bit pricey. Even a Segment with SLX for example is £2800, I don’t mind that, seems fair enough.

I can’t help but wonder if everyone is funding some new tooling with these new ones? Just seems totally bonkers. Given the value of the kit on it, is the frame going to be £4000 or something?

Wait, what? Aren’t we comparing to:

https://www.orangebikes.co.uk/bikes/stage-5-le

The Canyon you linked you has £1000 groupset, that Orange has a £300 one. The wheels on the Canyon are double the price. Not to mention it’s carbon.

No, I was comparing to the £2500-2900 sort of models. Aluminium, GX instead of XT. Admittedly those Lyric RC are only £700 to the £850 Fox, that’s about it though? Tragically I’d bet money the Canyons frame would be a good chunk lighter.

The main difference is you’re spending £3000 for some guy to weld it together and a distributor to shift it around. I still think they’d be more competitive if they sold direct.

Well to be honest we are both wrong, so you are not comparing apples with apples or oranges with Canyons to be brutally honest.

The spec on the Orange is as follows:
Fox 36 RC2 Boost £1059
X2 Rear shock £619
Fox Fctory Transfer £370
XT Groupset £300
Hope Cranks £250
Hope Brakes £300
Renthal carbon bars and stem £200
Hope Hubs on Easton Arc 30’s – £500 (guess)

The model strive i linked has:
Same Forks
Cheaper Rear shock
Cheaper Dropper
Comparable wheels (i actually have 1501’s and replaced Easton arcs with them so i prefer the canyon option They are certainly not double the price and not carbon)
YEs it has Eagle – but i personally would pay extra to remove all SRAM from my bike
Guide brakes – See above.

If you look at the two bikes side by side you can see that the spec on the Orange is superior. All bar the groupset and arguably the wheels.

Now this is where it gets interesting and i counter my arugment….

I actually have an Orange five built to the spec of the Stage 5…. I got rid of all the hope stuff as its overrated in my opinion (cranks and brakes) I replaced my wheels with XM1501’s But I would not run SRAM kit on a bike again. The point is you cannot buy a 2 x Canyons for the price of that Orange new. In fact it isnt as far away in price as you would think. Especially if you upgraded the shock on the Canyon to the Orange spec, Brakes and other bits to match.

To be frank, trundling around at an average of 11mph, you might as well be on a 3 4k 5k bike as a £700 one. Most riders wont get anywhere near the limits of their ‘rigs’ so spending more money matters not a jot to them, image you see. Look fast at the pub.

Im really not sure why people get so annoyed around what others spend their money on. I mean its not like they built an Ebike or anything……

My vex wasn’t with what people spend their cash on it’s with how over inflated the pushbike market is and it’s only going to get worse with the justifications given for why spending £6k on a bike is a good idea.

I love buying things however, I prefer good value for money and I don’t see that often in the MTB industry if YT hadn’t brought out the Capra I’d still probably have only justified a second hand build.

Anyway, my musings over… it is a forum after all, not everyone is on the same page.

Im really not sure why people get so annoyed around what others spend their money on. I mean its not like they built an Ebike or anything……

Who’s annoyed? Are people not allowed to express an opinion, for fear of offending one of the potential customers?

The Canyon you linked, you are aware you’re spending a fortune on the carbon frame? The alloy version is £2000 less.

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/mtb/strive/2017/strive-al-6-0-race.html

I’ve had a Five before, bought new with a set of Kashima forks for £2k, I do have an interest in their new bits. Even if you bought all those bits you’d listed previously for online prices, you’d still have about £3000 left over (assuming the frame comes with a shock), I wonder if that’s going to be the sort of price they’re asking.

I was trying to think of another company doing similar prices for flash aluminium frames, without being custom built. The only thing I can think of is something like Nicolai?

I like the geo numbers on the XL Stage 5. It’s usefully longer than my large Nicolai Helius AC 29er and although I’d prefer to see a sub-500mm seat tube 508mm isn’t the end of the world and I’ll still manage to squeeze in a 170mm Reverb. Would stick my 150mm Avalanche Pike on it though.

I recently had my single pivot prejudices readjusted after a 2hr blast on an XL RocketMax, during one of their organised demo days, so I’m willing to give both of the Stages a chance of being my next frame purchase so just need to try and get a demo on one at some point soon.

445mm stays on the Stage 5 are the same length as the RocketMax which felt playful enough (my Nicolai is 454mm as reference) so I would like to assume the Orange would feel ok too.

Great time to be looking for a new LT 29er frame….

5.5 k for that build is a joke but i assume some fanboys will buy it, and if they can afford to then fair enough

I’d never buy an orange personally, regardless of where they are made and VFM I think there are far better bikes out there, and they look crap.

I love Orange frames, I’m a fan of single pivot designs anyway but i especially like the industrial over built looks of an Orange frame.
The frame only deals (usually around £1500-£1600) are comparable to other brands, my Giant Trance frame and shock was £1500, what I have a problem with is the build spec.

It’s crap, let’s be honest for the money they’re asking it’s pretty poor.
If it ever goes on sale as frame only for the usual £1500 then I could spec a better build for the 5.5k they’re asking, it’s irritating because aren’t they supposed to be able to buy in bulk for discounts?…they must get some kind of trade prices at least?…it doesn’t seem like this gets passed onto the customer.
Who actually pays £1000+ for a fork?!….i can go online and find that fork brand new for around £800….a full XT groupset is around £300 including brakes, why then only put half of it on and instead charge a premium for Hope brakes that in my experience are no better than Deore!?….their full builds reek of style over substance and quoting the manufacturers rrp for a particular part is no defence when anyone can go to CRC, wiggle, Jenson etc and get the same parts for several hundred quid less…it’s why YT, Canyon, Radon etc are doing so well, people don’t like being offered an average spec bike for top money.
In short I love the frame but I hate the company ethos.

To understand Orange pricing, just look at the upgrades. £290 to upgrade to a Reverb that you can buy for £245 (and you don’t get the £25 seatpost so it’s effectively £315). Upgrade to Hope BB and it costs £65 and again you don’t get the standard BB that you’ve already paid for so it’s effectively £90. And so on.

Actually I’ll totally defend the pricing of the frames, but their markup on the upgrades is a total pisstake.

Actually deviant we are on the same page here. Like I have said earlier in this post. I wouldn’t buy a full build orange. Adding hope parts to something a charging a premium is short sighted to me. I prefer to spec my own bike. Perhaps I am one of the few orange owners who does not rate hope products. But to me it’s no selling point. In fact the only parts I would keep on that build are the forks, shock, seat post and groupset. All of which I would find cheaper online.

I kind of guess this emphasise my point. I would only buy an orange frame, as actually they are priced inline with everything else. I like how they ride and they work for the amount and places I ride. Full build…forget it!

….their full builds reek of style over substance and quoting the manufacturers rrp for a particular part is no defence when anyone can go to CRC, wiggle, Jenson etc and get the same parts for several hundred quid less…it’s why YT, Canyon, Radon etc are doing so well, people don’t like being offered an average spec bike for top money.
In short I love the frame but I hate the company ethos.

To be fair to Orange, scale and route to market aren’t comparable to the competitors you mention so don’t hate the ethos, it isn’t their ethos, it’s just how OE parts arrive to you and who needs a margin along the way. Same for many small brands. You can just buy a frame and shop online if you want more bike for less £ and don’t want/need retailer support.

I think I’ll seriously look at getting one.

Orange have always been pricey but that price is nuts, at the end of the day it is still a pushbike ffs!

If it had Eagle and carbon rims they might be able to justify the price tag, but XT with that weighty cassette? The £5.5k price does appear to carry a **** tax.

But as myself and others have said, there will be other builds and a frame-only option.

I don’t understand going “OMG £5.5k FOR A BIKE??!?!?”

You do know there are intense bikes that are £8.5k+ ?

Oranges aren’t the best value but they have a USP and heritage/following so do well.

I’ve been waiting for these to be released, kinda hope the reach/sizing would be sightly longer for the medium but happy to demo one to see how the actually feel in reality.

Certainly wouldn’t be paying 5k+ for a full build though, much prefer to buy frame only and use stuff I already own.

I suspect the pricing is reflective of the impact of the low value of the pound, making the import costs much higher.

Those thinking the frame only will be around £1600 like the frames are today, I think you’ll be off by ~£200 when the new pricing comes out. Factor in a shock upgrade, so you get a decent shock and it does become expensive.

I had a five29 for 18 month and have a Five now. Value for money isn’t the initial cost, it’s the £20 you spend to replace all the bearings. It’s the £200 you pay in two years to get the frame repainted and stickered. It’s the fact it is very unlikely to break 0.47% failure rate.

And if they do break, it’s the fact they’ll have a spare part out to you in days – not begrudgingly months like YT or Canyon.

Value for money isn’t just the initial outlay, it’s total cost of ownership and the post sales service.

You like it, or you don’t, but you can’t argue Orange makes the best suited bikes for the UK’s absolute minging conditions.

I’ve been waiting for these to be released, kinda hope the reach/sizing would be sightly longer for the medium but happy to demo one to see how the actually feel in reality.

Theyve dropped the seat tube by and inch on the large, so it’s now 18″ not 19″, therefore you can size up easily now to get the bigger top tube. I did the same on my Five.