[Closed] Opinions Please VPP or DW Link

Does no one have a bike with either of these linkages, or are you all old crippled roadies as i have previously suspected l.o.l 😆

No - but none of them are rich enough to have both / all four so they can't compare them.

Go book some test rides is probably the best advice, but especially for you, and only because it's you, I'm going to recommend the Mojo.

How could someone called Ibis ride anything else? 😉

That said, some of those are probably on my short list for my next bike (which is probably still two years away), but as a bit of an Orange fan so are the Five AM, Blood and Alpine 160 - once I can decide what sort of riding I do - honestly actually do, as opposed to aspire to.

As suspected sarcasitc roadie forum
more interseted in shiney sunglasses and arse cream ❗

The new DW spot is beautiful, the Mojo is delicious, the LT is so so and the Tracer is OK. All of them ride just fine I'm sure.

Sarcastic? Yes probably - but really just get our and ride them as only you can tell whether you like the ride. THey are all decent bikes and the Intense, SC and Ibis are all on my try is if I can list. The Intense might be a little harder to try.

Roadie? In my dreams. At 6' and 16st I'm never going to beat Lance over the Alps. Though I do own a road bike of course - I think a lot of serious mountain bikers do.

If you do get to test them all, I'd be interested in your findings/opinions!

i've ridden a couple of VPP bikes and was astonished by the amount of pedal feedback when cranking it. horrible, horrible feeling. nothing on horst link!

I hated my Spec FSR. Dull feeling. My 5.5 on the other hand is much more fun. Not tried a DW though.

Love my Blur LT2, but it is all down to person preference and riding style. The suspension type is totally irrelevant - presumably you don't buy a car by deciding that you must have something with McPherson struts?

It is how the feels to YOU (not other people) that matters, so a proper test ride is a must when spending that amount of money

surely it varies hugely from bike to bike peachos.
are they all not just variations on the same link (the vpp and the DW?)
maestro is basicly a DW iirc, but they cant call is DW for copyright reasons.

maestro is unfeasibly good 🙂
(though cranking in the bigring on very rough stuff, pedal kickback is quite strong, but its a rare situation, so not a problem)
granny ring has the leverage on the chain to make the bike sit up in its travel, middle ring is v neutral

I have a Iron Horse 6 point with the dw-link, but I have never tried a VPP system. To tell the truth I can imagine anything being better than the DW link, as it makes the bike stick to the ground like shit to a blanket, stupid amounts of traction climbing or descending.

If you look down the suspension is moving, however on the bike it doesn't feel like it. Previously, I have ridden a few 4 bars and faux bars and I didn't get on with them as on climbs it felt like the bob was sucking the life out of my legs.

Dave Weagle is sueing Giant over the Maestro link for patent infringement I think, however he claims that whilst Giant ripped it off, they haven't put the pivots in the optimal place. Regardless my SO has a Giant and its very very good and a cheaper way of getting bike with a DW-link, so it doesn't have to use a crippled shock to work properly.

Giant Maestro 3rded! [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/how-good-is-giants-maestro-suspension-system-statement-not-a-question ]See my thread here from a while back.[/url]

I had a first 'gen' (if you can call it that!) SC Blur and it was lovely. I now have a DW link Spot and its lovelier...

Both fantastic bikes. DW spot descends much better but they both climb well although for different reasons; angles better on the Blur for climbing but the DW link just claws its way uphill like you wouldn't believe.

I have to say as i get old i do appreciate the fact that i really do feel like my had won energy is being put to better use on the new Spot than any other bike i've had. The idea of 'anti-squat' really isn't b**l and I was a sceptic.

You won't go wrong with both mind.

As everyone else has said, a test ride is best.

Hi Ibis, I've just gone from an 07 575 to an 09 DW Link 5 Spot and tbh the difference is like night and day. The Yeti climbed pretty well (very well) but fely unsure, harsh and unstable on the descents. If you reduced shock pressure to counteract this it felt smoother on the descents but lost some of it's speed and quickness on the flats. No matter how much i tried i could never, ever get bike to sit in a happy place soimewhere in between.
Since buying the 5 Spot i've set the sag once and forgotten about it. It climbs better than the Yeti ever did and descends like no other bike i've been on. This might sound daft but it seems to want to know which way you want it to steer such is the stiffness and directness of the frame design.
I can't say i've ridden a load of bikes but if someone showed me one better i'd love to try it.

Cheers

And test ride some non-linkage designs - Heckler, Five, Cannondales

VPP, horst and DW link are all just variants on 4-bar. If you honestly believe that one is fundamentally better than the others then you're being very naive I'm afraid and may as well just go for the brand that does the best marketing.

The lengths of the four bars/position of the four pivots/position of the shock mounts is what will determine how they work and even fairly small differences in pivot placement can have a large effect on suspension action. You could get a 'horst' design to behave very similarly to a VPP or DW type design and visa versa by moving the pivots to the right locations to do so.

From the DW Site: [url= http://www.dw-link.com/reasons.html ]7 reasons why DW is [b]BEST[/b][/url]

The trouble is that you could use exactly those points to justify any four bar design assuming that was what you were trying to achieve.

The suggestions above to try different bikes is easily the best suggestion because for a start, no one will agree which is better and all the frames you suggested ride well though some may suit some peoples' preferences better than others.

You need to by a bike on it's geometry, strength, warranty, maintainance etc.etc. rather than it's linkage system.

Go ride them, weight them up yourself and if you have any real questions then post. Neither are best, every bike is a compromise in some way. If there was a best then all bikes would be the same.

Btw. the 5 spot is the best.

Looked at the DW site. Translation seems to be "we've done a lot of work to try and give our 4 bar bike some of the characteristics of a single pivot". Rear ward axle paths, effective lengthening of chainstays etc

The rest looked like it was made up to get a load of big sounding words in the same sentence.

I've always wondered why motocross bikes tend (and correct me if I'm wrong) to be single pivot (possibly with linkage shocks) while us mountain bikers get worried by multi-link designs.

The answer is of course pedal induced bob. Fair enough, and though a Fox RP23 can get rid of most of that prehaps it's not the most elegant solution.

But if multi-link gives better traction and better braking why aren't the motocross guys using it? Or are they and I just don't see it when I look at their bikes?

Hmm its a tough one no doubt. As other posters have said its a hard choice. Ive ridden both VPP (Blur LT) & DW (5 Spot). The DW is quite simply amazing when it comes to descending..Totally bottomless feel & utterly predictive, the VPP on the other hand doesnt seem to have the same progressive feel. However it will climb like a mountain goat regardless of terrain & gear..& since I like climbing I have a VPP system. But as clubber said they are both just variants of a 4 bar. The best thing you can do is go ride them. My 2p says you will end up choosing between the Mojo & the Blur - whichever it is have fun finding out!

ps the only thing that turned me off the 5 Spot was its a bit of a porker when compared to other bikes.

I am just going on personal experience I just didn't get on with 4 bars or faux bars as they seemed to bob like a bastard when you stomped (descending or climbing) the dw-link doesn't seem to wallow like 4 bars, and the travel seems to be there when you need it.

Have you tried a dw-link bike clubber? as if you haven't it sounds like you are swallowing spesh's marketing without question.

lol @ rich. I have specifically said that any four bar design is fundamentally the same but just tuned to work in a certain way. I never said or suggested that spesh's design is best or better. Are you suggesting that VPP or DW are somehow findamentally better than a horst? If so I know who's the one falling for marketing 😉

ps yes I have 🙂 the one I tested was great but that's the design not DW that gets the credit.

I've got a mojo and the sus action is fantastic. Having said that I don't think it is best suited to UK conditions, rear tyre clearance is maxxis 2.35 max, the lower rear linkage is a crap collector (I have fashioned a mudguard) and small stones can (and have) get stuck inbetween the upper lopes link and the frame (very close clearance)...but the suspension action means you could ride up a wall!

i cant be bothered to read everything else, but i had a DW link iron horse mark 3. It was a crap bike, BUT the rear suspension was excelent (once i had changed from a 5th element air to a fox float). No bob at all, unless being ridiculously choppy on the pedals. Had TONS of tratcion up the hills, really supple coming down,basically the best suspension i have personally felt on a 5 inch bike... It was just a shame the geometry was so wrong for me...

I would love a decent DW link bike.

Havent ridden vvp for more than a minute or two so cantg comment.

i've ridden a dw spot and mojo, and an vpp2 tracer.
spot > ibis > tracer on the ups
tracer > spot > ibis on the downs

but i had most fun on the intense, probably due to the way it was set up (stem/bars etc)

i ended up buying a dw flux

Many thanks guys for the opinions 😆

Ibis - Stif have got an ex-demo Nomad at about £2200 (might have been £2190 but I'm not sure) - as speced the list would normally be around £3600.
Not quite what you were after but at that price worth considering if your able to bob in there - and you'd get a ride considering it's ex-demo.

Dw link for me. Only owned iron horse mk111 and they are top stuff.
Bought a 2009 mk111 from evanns in the sale and for the money it's the best bike I've ridden.
Rode it over gatesgarth, nan bield and garburn pass today and it was great.

Rick.