Only small folders on trains for olympics

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  • Only small folders on trains for olympics
  • garrrrpirate
    Member

    Firstworldproblem?

    Premier Icon billyboy
    Subscriber

    South Eastern Trains are only allowing “small folding bikes” on their trains during the Olympics. That includes Saturdays and Sundays and off peak when ordinary bikes are normally allowed.

    Combined transport policy??????

    Is Mr Brompton in the same masonic lodge as the train bosses?

    TiRed
    Member

    FGW define a folding bike as a bike with wheels of 18 inches or less. Anybody on an Airnimal or a 406 Dahon is there by grace alone.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    How large a bag are you allowed to take?

    drofluf
    Member

    And TfL are encouraging people to use alternative routes including cycling during the Olympics because the network won’t be able to cope.

    Joined up thinking?

    poly
    Member

    I have to say it sounds like a fairly reasonable position to me. If you expect the trains to be absolutely packed and there is no prospect of adding additional capacity then stop people bringing awkward bikes which take up space and will delay congested trains (Ever tried getting a bike on/off a totally packed train? Ever tried that when many of the passengers are foreign visitors who don’t really understand you?). Surely its far better to be upfront and say now “bikes will not be accepted on these services” rather than have you turn up at the station and just not be able to get on anyway.

    drofluf
    Member

    But you could surely apply the same logic to suitcases and other bulky pieces of luggage.

    Far better would have been to have done some capacity planning ahead of time, say before we actually bid for the Olympics to establish whether our infrastructure could cope. One by one the providers (TfL, TOCs) are putting their hands up and saying they’ll be unable to meet the demand. Instead the politicians got seduced by a vainglorious notion ignoring the practicality and affordability. The ‘Olympic Legacy’ will consist of some admittedly great sporting facilities accessible by only the people in the area of those facilities and huge debts.

    loum
    Member

    Can easily see this policy being declared a success, and therefore comtinuing indefinitely. 😥

    rootes1
    Member

    Is Mr Brompton in the same masonic lodge as the train bosses?

    doubt it… Brompton made a load of GBR team bikes for the team to use around the Olympic park, but that was scuppered as BMW is the official games transport provider…

    shame london based manufacture an icon of Britain… would of been a good tie up with team GB…

    garrrrpirate
    Member

    But you could surely apply the same logic to suitcases and other bulky pieces of luggage.

    Not quite the same is it? Generally you can’t avoid travelling with suitcases and bags you can manage without your bike for a couple of weeks. How do you propose they capacity planned ahead of time short of increasing the rolling stock? The drivers are already threatening to strike unless they get a huge bonus for the duration.

    aP
    Member

    50 years of short term and ignorant thinking by governments with regard to non road transport has meant that our rail infrastructure is some of the most heavily used in Europe. Any increase in capacity ie 10 car upgrade on SWT was planned nearly a decade ago as the process is also the most complicated in Europe.
    Restricting non essential ‘luggage’ during the Olympics is only sensible, and Bromptons are the best folder anyway, so it’s all good for British manufacturing.

    falkirk-mark
    Member

    Chris Hoy on Brompton Bike - Olympic Handover Ceremony - BBC Screengrab

    He could be at a disadvantage

    Premier Icon franksinatra
    Subscriber

    I’ve got a lever arch folder, will I be allowed to take that on the train?

    munrobiker
    Member

    What baffles me more is that they are running extra trains but bikes are explicitly banned for the road race on trains. Which is daft. I’ve caught special service trains in Edinburgh before where the bike was put in an empty mail/cargo carriage that had doors through to the rest of the train as normal. Surely they could stick one of those on each train and let people do bikes at a bike event?

    And thanks, but I don’t want the rest of the world to think Brompton riders are typical British cyclists and that Bromptons are what all British products are like.

    BrickMan
    Member

    Bus’s should have those racks on the front like they do in just about every other country. Sure you only get 3 or 4 on there, but really useful I think!

    Trains too, virgin pendelino’s officially only have 3spaces, though if you actually try you can get 6 on there safely without impeding the drivers exit.

    National express/ megabus don’t let bikes at all unless they are packed up (so that they cannot tell) because if they suspect its a bike in a cardboard box/dedicated box, they make noises about it/ deny entry.
    I can often get a national express to london with bike in the hold from local town pickup, but its almost impossible to get the bike back OUT of london as it means getting on at Victoria where the super fussy lot are.

    project
    Member

    The thing is trains are expensive to build and run, so every bit of space needs to be accounted for and made to pay, having spaces for bikes is just an empty space that doesnt raise any money as the cyclist sits somewhere else.

    Then there is the problem of adding extra carriges for the conveyance of cycles,non are available and compatible with modern stock, there is also the extra length to fit at stations for the trains.

    Premier Icon flap_jack
    Subscriber

    Bromptons are the best folder anyway, so it’s all good for British manufacturing.

    I really wish this was true, but it isn’t. You ever tried fixing a rear puncture on a Brompton ?

    Birdy wins every time.

    poly
    Member

    But you could surely apply the same logic to suitcases and other bulky pieces of luggage.

    What you mean luggage the size of a folding bicycle – or do you mean ‘outsized’ luggage? in which case you can probably assume that the standard terms of carriage will be strictly enforced…

    T1000
    Member

    Often see there’s no room in the rack on FGW trains and see a birdytriphazard tm cluttering up the gangway……

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    I spoke to someone at London midland a while ago about folding bikes, he said they were hoping to rule out the Montague and Dahon 26″ bikes (hinged full-size bikes) in general and only accept ‘proper’ folders, ie 20″ or so wheels with folding frames and stems, at peak times. Limiting it to 18″ wouldn’t be workable surely, if FGW define a folder as 18″ or less I’d be suprised if they tried to enforce a ban on dahnon / mezzos etc based on that?

    TiRed
    Member

    if FGW define a folder as 18″ or less I’d be suprised if they tried to enforce a ban on dahnon / mezzos etc based on that?

    <jobsworth> Rules is rules </jobsworth>
    I was surprised too.

    rootes1
    Member

    I really wish this was true, but it isn’t. You ever tried fixing a rear puncture on a Brompton ?

    Birdy wins every time.

    I use marathon tyres, two rear punctures in 3000miles.. (no front ones) and think only got those as the tyre was wearing out as thye were at the upper mileage end..

    also it is possible to fix a puncture without removing the wheel..

    but agree quite a faff to remove the rear wheel especially if you have a hub gear brompton…

    rootes1
    Member

    I spoke to someone at London midland a while ago about folding bikes, he said they were hoping to rule out the Montague and Dahon 26″ bikes (hinged full-size bikes) in general and only accept ‘proper’ folders, ie 20″ or so wheels with folding frames and stems, at peak times. Limiting it to 18″ wouldn’t be workable surely, if FGW define a folder as 18″ or less I’d be suprised if they tried to enforce a ban on dahnon / mezzos etc based on that?

    Many TOCs currently just state ‘small’ folding bicycle only… e.g. like SWT do… which to them means Brompton, Mezzo is ok, 26″ wheel is not.. SWT train def like Bromptons as they have a tieup with brompton..

    Premier Icon piedi di formaggio
    Subscriber

    You ever tried fixing a rear puncture on a Brompton ?

    Yep – that’s why I have one of these in my Bropmton bag!

    Having said that Marathon Plus tyres on Brompton rims can be a tad tight!

    rootes1
    Member

    yer I just use marathons, they seem much looser than plus..

    also Brompton released this little toolkit inc patches of late that fits into the frame tube – quite neat:

    Premier Icon piedi di formaggio
    Subscriber

    Hmm, something else I didn’t know about but now need!

    allthegear
    Member

    That Brompton toolkit is beautiful! (and I now need one)

    Rachel

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    I’ve caught special service trains in Edinburgh before where the bike was put in an empty mail/cargo carriage that had doors through to the rest of the train as normal. Surely they could stick one of those on each train and let people do bikes at a bike event?

    No.

    In the days of loco-hauled stock and GUVs then yes that worked. Doesn’t work with multiple units as virtually everything is these days.

    It’s not ideal, but it’s not entirely unreasonable. Trains will be busy, bikes are cumbersome and take up space. You can take a folding bike or hire a Boris bike. Or… ride it.

    Virgin Trains have 4 spaces, I work for them.

    To be fair on them, the policy for pre booking bikes on trains is actually really common sense when you actually work on them.

    On the down side to them, they didn’t consider that a s**t load of wheelchair access might be needed for the Olympics, and only 2 spaces on an 11 car train. Whoops!

    rootes1
    Member

    To be fair on them, the policy for pre booking bikes on trains is actually really common sense when you actually work on them.

    Except you have to book a ticket before you can then book a bike space.. so sometimes you book a ticket only to find there are no bikes spaces…. when you use online (though you can do it on the phone)

    nealglover
    Member

    Rootes1, that is a complete non-problem then isn’t it ?

    Name a time when you have access to the Internet, but no access to a phone ?

    atlaz
    Member

    If I was commuting into London I’d be tempted to buy a second hand singlespeed something and leave it locked at one of the stations on the platform (well, Waterloo does this at least). Having taken bikes onto trains in London before, not keen to repeat it in any way, shape or form.

    rootes1
    Member

    Rootes1, that is a complete non-problem then isn’t it ?

    Name a time when you have access to the Internet, but no access to a phone ?

    Because you get better deals on the internet, you can look at more options, phones are often engaged and when you have to use the telephone you have the mash the key pad in order to create an error to speak to a person as it is only when you speak to a person and not the automated system can you book them at the same time…

    point is you should be able to do it at all points of purchase.

    Si

    Premier Icon simon_g
    Subscriber

    But you could surely apply the same logic to suitcases and other bulky pieces of luggage.

    They do, and evaluate folding bikes by the same limits.

    http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/nrcc/NRCOC.pdf

    “You may take a single item of hand luggage that must be capable of being held in your lap if required, plus up to 2 items of luggage each not exceeding 30 x 70 x 90 cm in size.” but also “Luggage is carried subject to sufficient space being available in the train service you wish to use.”

    A folded Brompton is 585mm high x 565mm long x 270mm wide. FGW and others use the 18″ thing as a general guideline – something like a Dahon Mu P7 (20″) just squeezes inside the regulations, an 18″ wheeled Birdy is too big.

    doubt it… Brompton made a load of GBR team bikes for the team to use around the Olympic park, but that was scuppered as BMW is the official games transport provider…

    shame london based manufacture an icon of Britain… would of been a good tie up with team GB…

    Its Dawes who have a tie up with Team GB.

    Papa_Lazarou
    Member

    Cyclists and bikes are a nuisance, apparently.

    scu98rkr
    Member

    If I was commuting into London I’d be tempted to buy a second hand singlespeed something and leave it locked at one of the stations on the platform (well, Waterloo does this at least). Having taken bikes onto trains in London before, not keen to repeat it in any way, shape or form.

    I brought a folder while my mate did the above at paddington.

    He got really really bad C**p bikes 2 still got nicked over a year or so. On the other hand still much cheaper than buying than buying a folder.

    rootes1
    Member

    Its Dawes who have a tie up with Team GB.

    really – madness… poor old Team GB

    Perhaps BMW is the partner for the games as a whole and not just Team GB..

    Yep BMW will provide bicycles:

    http://www.london2012.com/media-centre/article=london-2012-plans-move-up-a-gear-with-bmw-announced-as-the-latest-sponsor.html

    “At Games-time, BMW bicycles will be available for use by athletes in the Athletes Village and by London 2012 staff. BMW motorcycles will also be used in certain Olympic and Paralympic events. ”

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    this thread has raised 2 issues for me
    1) integrated transport my ass i thought the olympics was all aabout encouraging sport like errrr cycling
    2)**** sponsorship at the olympics really winds me up as a taxpayer weve paid for 90% of the games but have no say on them- i cant even tell them where the best place to put a S.A.M. is!

    rootes1
    Member

    oops – double post

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