As im building a roadbike on a budget and cant afford a full carbon frame ive been thinking that I will get an old steel frame (but a nice one in its day) and build it up with modern components. The reason being as aluminium frames can be so harsh they just arent comfortable over long distances especially on some of our terrible roads.

I assumed (probebly wrongly) that although the bike would suffer a weight penalty, the modern components would mean you would have something practical for your sole bike, that would be nice to ride and only a relatively small compromise.

However after reading this on the road bike for under £1000 thread i think maybe that assumption is wrong?

"A shitty frame with great parts will always be a shitty bike. A good frame with cheap parts will always be a great bike, one which can always be improved. "

What do you think?

Why not, would say get a good carbon fork though

Depends what you want to do with it? I'm fat. Always have been, always will be I expect, therefore a carbon frame will only ever make me feel better about myself, it wont improve my performance significantly enough to justify the cost.

That said, a reynolds or similar frame from the 80's was great then and still pretty good now. I bought an old reynolds frame, hung a load of 7 speed dura ace off it and made a very nice to ride bike. Its not the quickest, but neither am I. It is however, great for a pootle as fast and as far as I can cope with and a dream to climb on!

I'd go steel and see how you feel. Frames come and go, don't spend loads unless you know you need (or can afford) it.

I would not discount some of the modern aluminium frames – I think you'll find that they're actually not that harsh. The problem with buying a steel frame will be that the forks will be 1" and difficult to replace if you so wish to.
As far as a nice steel frame goes I still use my custom built 853 road frame and it still rides nicely – now on its 2nd groupset as the first one lasted 10 years.

I have no problem on cheap bits on nice frames or nice bits on cheap frames. As far as I'm concerned, if it works, it works.

I have some old Campag bits on my cheap and nasty Raleigh racer – they're not over the top expensive, all bought second hand, and a hell of a lot better than the worn out stuff that was replaced.

You have to remember that a lot of people have splashed the cash on a carbon frame with matching dura-ace or record, and need to reconcile that in their heads 😕 I do wonder if it comes from magazine reviews – you'll often see "This bike has a frame worthy of upgrades" or "This bike isn't worth upgrading", which works, so long as you're of the mind that you'll never change the frame – with the advent of fairly cheap frames, it's not that unlikely anymore.

Anyhow, to my mind, a good steel frame is still a top notch product. You can reckon on an old 531 or better frame with forks weighing in at around 5-6lbs, which is more than carbon, but it could well outlast you.

That weight seems to be fairly consistent by the way – even 1950s frames are about that.

An old steel frame does not need to mean a shitty frame. Lots of nice old steel road bikes out there going for reasonable money.

e.g. a very quick search on ebay turned up this and it was literally the first thing I came across. Couple of hundred quid on a used bike, another hundred or so on tyres, cables and a bit of tlc and you can have a very nice bike indeed. My old Mercian was simply beautiful, and rode way better (for general non-competitive road riding) IMO than any out of the box sub £1000 road bike. Still regret selling it…

A good Steel frame will always ride MUCH better than nearly all but the most expensive Alu and Carbon offerings. This is especially true for carbon upto ~2000 frame only.

Depending on your budget a nice 853/ox platinum frame new will only be £600 to £700

Oh and incase you think steel is heavy, I have an Ox plat road frame, 59cm at 3.8 lbs

of course an old 70s/80s roadie (ime) generally has geometry that leads to twitchy handling , and toe overlap ,,,, even on my large sized 58 square frames of yore…

aluminium bike with a carbon fork and carbon post. I rode one for years and it was comfortable enough. It was a cheap frame too, off a trek 1000.

Oh, and in the same vein, this is my new steel bike with new componentry. I'll have it over any carbon bike for general riding thanks very much. Just got back from a spin on it actually, lovely.

I had a Cannondale CX that I use to take off road and never found it harsh.

A good Steel frame will always ride MUCH better than nearly all but the most expensive Alu and Carbon offerings. 🙄

Um, yes, whatever…

The material a frame is made of doesn't impart any magical quality at all.

What you are saying is that a 'good' steel frame is the same as a 'good' frame made of anything else. Great insight.

Ribble have some cheap modern frames. Looked there?

I like steel. If you happen to find a bike with a 11/8 inch Aheadset then I have a pair of carbon salsa forks which I could do with getting rid of. They've got mudguard eyes and an alloy steerer so they're a good choice for a 'training frame'…

Cheap old steel will be heavy and crap to ride, nice old steel will be expensive.

If steel is so great, then why don't the big companies sell frames made of it anymore?

Have a look at 2nd habnd cannondales, something like an 18speed cannondale CAAD4 R500 from 2004 should be arround £300 and be a very nice bike with some new wheels. Trek are generaly overly harsh/stiff, specialized are usualy a bit soft, cannondale have always had really good reviews. I've a couple of steel roadies and a aluminium cannondale, I'd pick the cannondale out of the shed any day of the week over the steel ones for a long ride.

Nice old steel need not be expensive. 531 and above rides really well. Worth getting an aheadset style fork- makes the bars way stiffer.

I ride a steel frame. I've tried a few others including a prinipia which is to be sold, I just love the feel of light steel.

If you buy one and don't like it it will sell on ok.

what I object to is asking a question and then getting a load of unrelated sanctimonious answers in reply

it's not competitive weight wise and numbers sell bikes.

Steel is way over valued as a frame material, with hints of that 'retro therefore better' crap that creeps in whenever cyclists of a certain age are gathered together.

I've had off the peg 531 frames, road and cross, I've had custom 753 and off the peg 753, and they were great frames….. 20 years ago.

The fact is that steel has been superseded as a frame material for high performance bikes, by aluminium then by carbon.

Sorry, but it's true.

I was out on my carbon road bike the other day and spent a few miles chatting to an old boy out riding his recently restored 1950s Gillot steel bike.

It was one of several vintage road bikes he owned from the 40s and 50s, and it looked immaculate. He had just treated himself to a new steel Mercian which he'd funded by selling off two of his vintage motorbikes. He'd kept the other motorbike, but didn't use it much since crashing it and breaking both legs quite badly.

He was out on a short ride of 50-60 miles, as he'd done a century to Ladybower and back the week before.

Now bear in mind this guy would have been in his pomp around the time his vintage bikes were made, it occurs to me that good steel bikes – and their riders – will likely last a lot longer than modern carbon bikes – and their riders!

The fact is that steel has been superseded as a frame material for high performance bikes, by aluminium then by carbon.
Sorry, but it's true.

sorry but it's a matter of opinion.

FTAC

EDIT: even if you are right, what ^*£>ing relevance has it to the op?

What about alloy frame with a carbon rear end?

Aluminum gives a bit more road buzz than carbon but you can a decent saddle and carbon fork, run 25mm and some decent bar tape.

Ok I love carbon but my first road bike and winter bike is aluminum and I love it. Great training toy and then jump on the carbon for racing.

Been using a 531 steel road bike as a pub bike and I love that bike! but it is heavy but comfy not as quick but gets you out riding more!

sorry but it's a matter of opinion.

It's really a matter of marketing and cost and production and snobbery, if we are being honest.

I was offered a 'discount' on a custom 531 racing frame when I was road racing, the price would have been £800ish…. I bought and raced an aluminium frame for £200 that was lighter, stiffer and is still going strong as a training bike.

Carbon and aluminium bikes are cheaper than 'good' steel, and ride just as well, despite not having the cafe run cachet.

Steel has no magical properties….

EDIT: the *&^%ing relevance is a continuation of the context of the thread..

In addition to ebay, look at Cycling Weekly always plently of second hand bikes in there. The racing bike I would like most would be a steel pegoretti but that is for romantic rather than logical reasons.

interesting finding the varied opinions, but in the case of steel being superceeded i dont believe that is the case. For example if you want a durable touring bike for long distances you arent going to pick a carbon frame.

BMX frames are steel, obivously a durability thing. Yes in racing it is no longer used but that is simply a weight issue, not ride quality.

Aluminum frame with a carbon rear end is another option that i have concidered

The material your bike frame is made of is a personal choice, to be frank carbon is an amazing material, you can do things with it you just can't with steel or even the best hydro-formed aluminium. However it is a disposable material, it won't last forever and it is not repairable.

If you want the best racing frame you can buy and the weight is the most important thing then the honest answer is carbon is probably the best material you can build a bike from.

If you want something that will provide a stiff but light ride with a reasonable weight compromise then Aluminium should deliver what you need.

If the weight isn't the most important thing and you want a pretty stiff frame that is compliant and that if looked after well will outlive you then steel is a fantastic material.

There is loads of good old steel out there, if you can pick up a 531 or 501 framed steel frame in good nick you will get something that doesn't weigh a ton and has a pretty good ride. If you want to add a carbon fork you can still get carbon forks for 1" headsets, there are some cheaper options from Columbus and the EC90 is a more expensive option.

New steel frames aren't that expensive, the Olympus road from Bob Jackson comes in just over £400 with a 1 1/8" fork up front and its built from 635, you should also look at the genesis equilibrium which you can get in a frame and fork package for about £350, its reynolds 520 cromo and rides really well, take a look at http://www.cyclistno1.co.uk/gear/bikes/road/genesis-equilibrium.htm fora review.

+1 Brendan – well put.

I've got a top end carbon bike and an aluminium Cannondale caad5 winter bike. I do lots more miles on the Cannondale each year and can't say it's ever occurred to me that it might be unconfortable. Quite the opposite. The Cannondale frame is however as light as some very expensive steel frames which cost more than my entire winter bike. As Brendan said they are a good compromise so I wouldn't rule them out if you are on a tight budget.

I was offered a 'discount' on a custom 531 racing frame when I was road racing, the price would have been £800ish…. I bought and raced an aluminium frame for £200 that was lighter, stiffer and is still going strong as a training bike.
Carbon and aluminium bikes are cheaper than 'good' steel, and ride just as well, despite not having the cafe run cachet.

WTF comparing off the shelf alu to custom steel. IRRELEVANT.

Carbon/alu is no doubt cheaper than "good" steel, because steel frames are not manufactured in the same quanitity.

Really crikey you are making this too easy!

[quoteCarbon/alu is no doubt cheaper than "good" steel, because steel frames are not manufactured in the same quanitity.[/quote]

Thats not strictly true, steel frames were made in greater volumes than anything else, but making a 'good' steel frame is a skilled job, laying raw carbon in a mould, whilst skilled isn't as skilled. Consequently the margins on carbon frames are huge, markups are close to 50% in some cases and thats at the retail end of the supply chain….

Ribble Sportive Carbon for me for £450 inc fork – I love it 🙂

markups are close to 50% in some cases and thats at the retail end of the supply chain….

BS!

Not really, I was told by a guy I know in a bike shop who was contemplating buying a Cervelo that his 'trade price' was around £1200, retail on the frame was £2150….by my reckoning thats about 50%.

I know it varies by manufacturer but there is no denying carbon is cheaper to make and it certainly isn't getting any cheaper. Anyway, were getting off topic…

@

crikey

What an Idiot ❗

My Bill Nickson steel frame was great – I am it's 3rd or 4th owner, and when I got it (for £200) it was covered in 8 speed DuraAce. Did LEJOG on it, and some competitive road rides, and many many training rides, and have only had to put it to bed as the frame has rusted through at the bottom of the seat tube. Love riding it though (it's Dedaccia tubing, and weighs about 5lb, whole bike around 20lb). Still great to ride 20 years after it was made. I wouldn't hesitate to have another one, but now lust after a carbon loveliness type road bike.

Blatant plug for my old 531 steel bike on classifieds :wink:.

I solved the carbon/steel/alu debate the easy way, i went titanium.

it occurs to me that good steel bikes – and their riders – will likely last a lot longer than modern carbon bikes – and their riders!

That is total cobblers mate. I ride a carbon road bike, are you telling me I'm a fair weather biker and will give up in a few years? I ride a carbon bike because it's cool and I love how it rides. If an old codger could've bought a great riding carbon bike when he was in his 30s, do you think he would? Talk about nostalgic rubbish!

I was under the impression that carbon fibre had excellent fatigue characteristics. How long will my frame last?

TheDoctor – Member
@

crikey

What an Idiot

If you are going to be so incisive in your commentary, at least be imaginative in your insults…

WTF comparing off the shelf alu to custom steel. IRRELEVANT.

Not irrelevant. Totally relevant, in that it's about the ride, it's about the actual thing that you do with the bike, not what the tubes happen to be made of.