What truly baffles me is how Harris’s wife and daughter where there to support him throughout his trial.

He’s clearly very capable of manipulating people and he’s had a lot of time to do that with his close family.

I think also, for some families of people like this, they *want* to believe that the person they’ve loved and invested their lives in isn’t the person that it’s claimed.

If someone accused your partner of a crime like this (and you genuinely had no idea if it had happened or not) who would you side with – the accuser who you may feel has other motives or your partner. If you went with the former and the prosecution didn’t go ahead or they were found not guilty how would you feel. He’s slightly unusual in that he admitted some of the things he was accused of but others have denied them all.

Seems like I am the only one who agrees with Edukator then ..

All seems like a witch hunt to me. With compensation pay outs being sought by alleged victims.

I do find it hard to believe that there can be such a difference between some people’s public persona and what they’re really like.

While I do have some sympathy with Edukator’s point of view as memory is a very fragile and easily corrupted thing, if 12 people all found him guilty beyond reasonable doubt there must be something in it other than some mis-remembered past meetings.

I can only think that most people of a wide spectrum of ages up to the point of him being arrested only thought well of Rolf and it must have been very hard for them to convict him. Without being there we’ll never know.

A sad day, whatever actually happened.

All seems like a witch hunt to me. With compensation pay outs being sought by alleged victims.

Nothing “alleged” about it. He’s been found guilty.

He’s guilty as charged by the British Judicial system. Agree or don’t it makes no difference. The fact is he’s a loathsome human being as, it appears were many of his cohorts. If this affects your fond memories of him as a child that’s just tough. If he had his hand down your pants when you were 7 you might not remember him in such a glowing light. I just wonder how many more are waiting to be uncovered. The Bryn Estyn homes enquiry gets a bit too close to powerful people to ever get a satisfactory outcome.

All seems like a witch hunt to me.

How is prosecuting a pedophile like hunting witches ?

Are pedophiles a much maligned group of people who are misunderstood and unfairly persecuted by society ?

It’s not a witch hunt – that’s going after someone with no interest in whether or not they’ve done wrong. And so what if it was 20/30/40 years ago. This sort of thing can screw people up for decades – see the friend of his daughter who has been telling psychiatrists/counsellor about this abuse for the last 15 years. That was a factor in the jury assessing the truthfulness of her evidence, and whether she’d just jumped on the supposed post-Saville bandwagon as some imply. Clearly not the case once all the evidence was put before the court. Common sense says there must be a balance struck between how long ago a crime occurred and whether or not it is prosecuted, but the severity of the incident is the issue there, the effect on the victim being one factor for consideration.

Notions of what constitutes sexual assault, sexual harassment, consensual sex, pimping and many other crimes have changed.

Thankfully you are still there to tell us all what is acceptable to do with a 7 year old and what is not.
Its a fairly insensitive subject to troll on tbh

It was illegal then it is illegal now and you really need to find a better hobby.

Views have changed. That’s why you won’t find anyone getting done for saying ‘nice tits’ to a lass in a pub in 1980. That’s why you’ll almost certainly not see anyone getting done for slapping someone’s bottom in the student union bar 20 years ago.

In the same way you won’t see anyone getting prosecuted for calling someone a ni**er 10 years ago, but the men who murdered Stephen Lawrence were prosecuted and convicted almost 20 years after they killed him. It’s the severity of the crime that justifies whether or not a prosecution is appropriate many years later. Slap on the arse, no, groping and having sex with children, yes. Ok there will be grey areas, but I’m struggling to see how anyone objects to a predatory serial sex offender facing justice even years after his offending.

but the men who murdered Stephen Lawrence were prosecuted and convicted almost 20 years after they killed him

surely this was only because the police didn’t bother investigating at the time rather than some delay in reporting it?

Society has moved on, thank goodness, but these things were always nasty and always illegal, and as someone who has to help mop up the pieces and deal with victims, it is good to see this result.

Mindless trolling by people who think that all crimes are equivalent, and murder should be forgiven if you don’t go after apple scrumpers. 😕

surely this was only because the police didn’t bother investigating at the time rather than some delay in reporting it?

I was wondering whether the same comment could be applied to saville, harris, hall, etc, etc Didn’t some of the victims try reporting at the time?
(not sure, I’m with ernie on avoiding details of the nasty stuff)

I’m struggling to see how anyone objects to a predatory serial sex offender facing justice even years after his offending.

Strange isn’t it ? Perhaps it’s because Rolf Harris looks like a funny and jovial version of Colonel Saunders with an excitable and amusing demeanor, and if he looked a little more like how a pervert should look like it would be more acceptable.

I mean it’s almost like saying that anyone could be a pervert/child molester, even people who seem very nice. How scarey is that ?

google Owen Oyston if you think a grey beard guarantees innocence.Impeach the Colonel now…

RH always made my flesh creep on TV. Only met him once.

I think the reason there is even a debate here (there shouldn’t be) is because the way the media has reported the case now, following the verdict, isn’t particularly nuanced. He language used is hyperbole to some degree. If you were a child victim of rape by jimmy savile you might feel aggrieved if the media wasn’t able to differentiate between what happeed to you and the teenage girl (or the 7/8 year old) that had her bottom fondled.

The debate isn’t whether what Harris did was or wasn’t utterly reprehensible because clearly it is. It’s about whether what he did was as bad as what Savile did, to use a comparison. Savile raped children. Harris sexually assaulted them and in all but 11 of the 12 counts of that charge, the assulat was groping of a teenage, is post pubescent) girl.

Harris should get a custodial sentence in my view. But it shouldn’t be as long as what Savile would/should have got and the language we use to describe these two should not be the same. There are degrees of wrong doing and I think the media is ignoring that in favour of headlines.

Enough of this sensible discussion, I’ve got some art to sell.. any takers?

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/dreweatts/catalogue-id-2864602/lot-14800501 – Mr J Savile by Mr R Harris.

wwaswas, perhaps not a great example because as you say, different reasons. My point was simply that the more severe the crime, the longer period of time a prosecution remains reasonable/in the public interest.

The debate isn’t whether what Harris did was or wasn’t utterly reprehensible because clearly it is. It’s about whether what he did was as bad as what Savile did, to use a comparison.

That news to me. I haven’t heard the debate about whether what Harris did was as bad as Savile. Such a debate is completely inappropriate and unhelpful imo.

What’s most concerning is the current massive consumption/production of paedophile imagery and acts in the UK, deviant sexual predators don’t have an obvious image, you would be shocked by just how many there are in your local areas who on the face of it appear to be ‘ normal’ family men as well as others.
A ‘ troll’ on this thread made some surprising statements regarding Spain and age of consent etc etc etc and I know in other foreign countries what is accepted there is abhorrent to some of us in the UK. Just shows how some folks minds work and what’s acceptable and unacceptable/ justifiable to them.
The human race can be a sick, sad, bad group of animals, thankfully for every bad one there is a good one in existence!

It’s not about the shape of a face (an assumption often reinforced by the movies, IMO – eg: Billy-Bob Thornton looks “hard”), but the shape of a mind. Which remains hidden from most. In these cases, deliberately, by disguise.

All seems like a witch hunt to me.

Is that based on you having been in court every day to hear all the evidence, and the witnesses from both sides being tested by cross-examination?

The human race can be a sick, sad, bad group of animals, thankfully for every bad one there is a good one in existence!

That seems rather an arbitrary statement. Where is the bad line drawn, where the good one? Is it really a 1:1 ratio or are there orders of magnitude more bad than good or vice versa? I think it’s going to take some research.

Variable, depending on philosophical outlook and the current state of human nature.
Which of course varies due to circumstance.
🙂

All seems like a witch hunt to me. With compensation pay outs being sought by alleged victims.

I think after a prolonged investigation and full scale criminal trial followed by a conviction, what’s really important is to try to shame victims of childhood sexual assault and call them liars. 🙄

You’re saying that without any basis to say that and when the limitation period for civil assault claims relating to the sexual assaults proven would have passed decades ago. You pillock.

Our minds are free, what we do with our bodies is limited by social rules and laws. We learn to manage our desires within the framework of the society we live in. Societies are variable with differing values, when viewed from the inside you can perhaps label them “good, bad, sick, sad” or whatever, doing that to another society you’re not a member of is judgmental. I’m doing it, I find the lack of prescription laws in the UK unfair because I’m used to living in a society with prescription laws. Other are judging 60s events through modern eyes.

When Lewis and Clarke crossed the US they found the Amerindian willingness to lend wives strange but fitted in. The Amerindians mocked the explorers because they ate dogs. Two different but functional worlds.

In the 60s the headmaster of my junior school spent much of the day bouncing little girls up and down on his knee. Headmasters these days never touch kids and if they really need to, find a find a member of the appropriate sex to deal with the child and make sure there are witnesses. The headmaster of Madame’s school never shuts his office door. A teacher in the sixties would give an upset child a comforting hug/pat/hair ruffle, these days kids have to be left to cry – Madame says the female secretary still dares to give girls hug when they are sent to her. We are moving towards a zero contact society because everyone assumes a friendly gesture will be taken the wrong way and land them in trouble.

Society evolves, it changes, to label the changes good or bad depends entirely on your point of view. My views are based on what I’ve lived and seen

We are moving towards a zero contact society because everyone assumes a friendly gesture will be taken the wrong way and land them in trouble.

We’re not. (No doubt, you’ll keep saying it and if that’s what you need to do to convince yourself, you go and knock yerself out dude.)

Edukator I admire you for ploughing an individual furrow but cant see what your post has got to do with child molestation. In fact I find your first paragraph a bit disturbing.

News of the sentances just in. They are going to remove his testicles and he has to spend the rest of his life in jail.

In other news Oscar Pistorius is going to have coaching lessons to change his voice from a whining little bitch to a mans voice.

A teacher in the sixties would give an upset child a comforting hug/pat/hair ruffle, these days kids have to be left to cry

That may be the case in whatever specific example you are referring to.

But it certainly isn’t a general rule.

hora –
News of the sentances just in. They are going to remove his testicles and he has to spend the rest of his life in jail.

In other news Oscar Pistorius is going to have coaching lessons to change his voice from a whining little bitch to a mans voice.
You actually went back and edited that to add more crap?

He got convicted of 12 offences.
Does anyone actually believe those are all the atrocities a pedophile who happens to be friends with Saville has comitted?
I’m sure many were too scared to come forward and more will come to light in the future.

I recall the sixties was brutal and abusive with corporal punishment the norm….IIRC it led to folk growing up free of empathy and craving attention

Pondo you strike me as abit vanilla at best

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/01/rolf-harris-convicted-silence-sexual-abuse-disturbed?CMP=fb_gu

Edukator.

Some forms of morality have almost always been considered universally absolute.
For very good reasons.
Sexual contact with children is damaging to the child, physically and mentally, even in societies where it is not illegal.

Attempting to justify any sexual assault by an adult on any child is unacceptable.
Always.

There appear to be plenty of people on here who cannot grasp this simple concept, going by previous threads on the subject.
I’ll link to a few later.

I find it quite disturbing, tbh.

In the 60s the headmaster of my junior school spent much of the day bouncing little girls up and down on his knee.

The only purpose I can think of for recalling this bizarre alleged behaviour is to suggest that in the 1960s it was perfectly acceptable for a headmaster to spend much of the day bouncing little girls up and down on his knee.

Headmasters spending their day bouncing little girls on their knees was not acceptable in the 1960s, and if your argument relies on people believing bollocks like that then I suggest you just give up.

hora –
Pondo you strike me as abit vanilla at best

Does that mean anything to anyone else?

Does that mean anything to anyone else?

does anything Hora types? 😆

Plenty more to come I’m afraid

If someone calls you ‘abit Vanilla’ it means your insipid/abit bland dear.