No one likes voilence but hooray

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/8652243.stm

nah, i have to disagree. regardless of being wound up he battered the kid with a weight. you dont have to be eddikated to know that you could do some serious harm. if you cant work with yoofs then dont be a teacher.

Wrong forum? [mod: moved]

Still, hooray for common sense and realising that "innocent young people", just like grown-ups, can have the collective personality of a psychotic. (Can't remember whose psychological principle this is but he basically reasoned that when you get lots of people in a group their sense of individual responsibility and morality diminishes and their aggressiveness, cunning and criminality may increase – e.g. riots, looting and mob violence)

: P

Heh. All assemblies tomorrow should be "You see, children, this is why we have rules. Which of us is going to flip out and stave your head in with a dumbell? You just don't know, so what you've got to do is ask yourself, do you feel lucky? Well, do ya?"

Unfortunate for all concerned, but an illuminating lesson in adulthood for the class I imagine.

I'm glad he got off, it's good to know that our system does work from time to time..

i don't know why but I found this quote amusing.. LOL

The court heard that he shouted "die, die, die" as he bludgeoned the boy with the weight after the pupil swore at him.

So it's OK for a teacher to hit a kid in this way?

Beyond belief!*

*Of course we don't know the whole story but…

So basically what they're saying is that beating a 14 year old child round the head with a dumbell while shouting 'die, die, die' isn't attempted murder?

Yes the chap was provoked and no doubt the kid involved was a horrible litte sh1t, however that definitely sounds like attempted murder to me.

Was it a rotating weight? 😉

I like the last line 🙂

voilence? Is that agro in the West Country? 🙂

I'm glad he got off, he had 6 months in prison waiting for the trial didn't he?
Hitting the kid was wrong, and he admits that, but it sounds like he'd been wound up something terrible!

So it's OK for a teacher to hit a kid in this way?

No. But it's reasonable for the teacher to use evidence showing that he was under extreme – and planned and filmed – systematic provocation. Which meant that in this case the jury decided that he was not guilty of the crimes with which he was charged.

It still means he's unlikely to work as a teacher again and, as before the incident, he's got a whole load of stress-related and anger-related problems to deal with. But he hasn't got to deal with them in jail.

: P

He hasn't got off, no ones said its ok, he's still been charged with GBH.

They've just said he wasn't in a position to know what he was doing and be in control. They've pushed him to the point he's snapped and lost control because of his mental condition.

Difficult one this, I think kids nowadays get away with far too much due to many reasons including inadequate discipline and too many restrictions placed on teachers. I was a fairly disruptive kid and we had a couple of teachers we would antagonise to see how far we could push them. BUT I don't think you can go about hitting kids over the head with dumbells whilst employed as a teacher. (I presume he is no longer a teacher??) I know we don't know the full story but how would anyone on here feel if it was their child that was battered

Aye it is 😳

The man suffers from a mental illness. He should not have been working with children. His acquittal is the right verdict however.

I can relate to this: I have been prone to bouts of extreme violence, that I have little or no recollection of afterwards. I've caused some quite serious injuries. Something 'snaps' inside me, when I'm under extreme stress, and I can be extremely vicious. I've suffered from this since I was a small child, and hopefully now have things a lot more under control. I'm not allowed to work with children or vulnerable adults as a result. There is every possibility something could trigger off a violent episode in even the most unlikely situations. There is no real 'cure' for this condition, just careful management of my mental state, recognising potential triggers, working out strategies to avoid such situations. At times, drugs have been used when the risk of potential trouble has been high. I'm a lot 'better' than I was, though, although I have to recognise the 'next' episode could have disastrous consequences for myself and/or others.

I very much doubt this poor man was really wanting to kill the child. More like the torment raging inside his mind projected his anger onto a 'target', and drove him to lash out at someone. Other examples of this kind of behaviour manifest themselves as self-harm and other destructive acts.

Poor man. I hope he gets the treatment he seems to desperately need, so that this kind of thing doesn't happen again.

Do feel sorry for the poor kid, no matter how much of a little shit he'd been. He didn't deserve that.

how would anyone on here feel if it was their child that was battered

I'd be **** mortified if I heard that my kid had done something like that to a teacher (or anyone) and I'd hope they learned a lot from the experience

It's like those goons in the USA who "charm" rattlesnakes & then get bitten

Of course he shouldn't have done it, I don't imagine that's in question in anyone's mind. (You might choose to argue that the "over-protection" of pupils prevented him from taking more reasonable action earlier in the episode – I know some teachers would say exactly that)

I just feel really sorry for the poor guy, why anyone would want to go into teaching is beyond me!

I think this is the right decision, however the real question is why this teacher was put in this situation and what support was he receiving. He clearly was very brittle and I believe receiving care from a community mental health nurse (who clearly is blameless – but then I’m biased) – I’m sure the school/ education authority could have provided more support

I'm still on the fence.
Kids were jerks for screwing with him and I can understand him fighting.
But to beat a kid over the head with a metal object while yelling "die, die, die" is, perhaps, not the most diplomatic solution.
Maybe if he had yelled something different . . .

bring back the cane, and national service.

nail some sense into em.

that would sort out "broken Britain"

Hmmm! Kids are little buggers they pick on people teachers included, we did at school. But smacking a kid with a dumbbell is bang out of order.

Thing is I witnessed a child battering another child, parents called in, parents with no parental skill accuses school of picking on kid even when showed CCTV of him kicking a girls head in for no reason…

Kids are sometimes so badly behaved it comes from the home, and teachers can't control them by verbel chat, we need to be able to chuck kids out of the class for behaving badly and get the parent to pay the bill and maybe something would happen.

Privatise education.

Zaskar, I'm not a teacher but ride with a couple and chat with them ref their work – no way I would do it! I agree with comments ref kids behaviour but cannot agree ref privatise education got to be a big NO NO – I'm sure this will spark a few comments on here!

It still means he's unlikely to work as a teacher again

It could make his CRB check a little tricky!!!!

One of my lessons today "RIGHT THATS IT, I'VE HAD ENOUGH I'M OFF TO GET A DUMBBELL".

I have worked in a vey tough school (had lowest GCSE attainment grades in England at that time) in a very socially deprived area and now work in a Comp in a nicer area. Kids arent as bad as you may think, the stress comes from poor management in the school. A 14 year old swearing at you isnt stressful really. Its just the knowledge that management will make out its your fault for not engaging 20 kids who can hardly write their own name with the finer points of gene therapy.

Judge in summing up seems to suggest CPS have taken the wrong charges to court, so even if this guy has escaped on a "technicality" then there are worse crims walking the streets.

By all accounts the class were playing on the guys recent mental health problems, have to wonder whether he'd got the right support from his senior manageemnt team prior to his return to work.

No matter how much restraint that teacher showed, the kids would have escalated it up another notch until he cracked.

They got the desired result, but not quite what they wanted 🙂

Maybe they learned a valuable life lesson that day.

I'd wager no kid in that school winds up a teacher for a while at least…

On balance the right verdict was returned in my opinion.

There’s a feel on here from some posts that he made a conscious decision to do as he did. If so you’ve not understood the circumstances of the case.

I believe s. 3 (Provocation) of the Homicide Act 1953 extends to ATTEMPTED murder (I maybe wrong on this) –
Where on a charge of murder there is evidence on which a jury can find that the person charged was provoked (whether by things done or by things said or by both taken together) to lose his SELF-CONTROL, the question whether provocation was enough to make a reasonable man do as he did shall be left to be determined by the jury; and in determining that question the jury shall take into account everything both done and said according to the effect which, in their opinion, it would have on a reasonable man.

If there is no loss of control this defence is not available.

The court heard he’d snapped after being terribly goaded by these pupils. There is case law such as R v Humphreys [1995] where the court recognised a particular event can prove to be ‘the last straw’.

This was systematic and targeted abuse that resulted in a reasonable man employed as a teacher to lose his self control.

He's not got off with it, he's done 8 months and is now to be rehabilitated, which I beleived was preferable to a prison sentence in STWland.

I have worked in a vey tough school (had lowest GCSE attainment grades in England at that time) in a very socially deprived area and now work in a Comp in a nicer area.

Back in the day All Saints was considered as one of the better schools in the area (and may still be). However, that means it manages to hang around the national average level.

This was systematic and targeted abuse that resulted in a reasonable man employed as a teacher to lose his self control.

A reasonable man, who'd sought help for his mental illness, and it seems, not really received the effective treatment he needed.

'Horrible me'
In transcripts of a police interview, which was read out to the court, Mr Harvey said: "We went through the door into the prep room and I remember standing over him with this metal weight and I remember hitting him twice.
"Something happened and I'm sure I dropped it. I remember feeling really peaceful.
"(Education adviser Shahrukh Mugaseth) went with me to the police station and I could see my reflection in the screen.
"It was me, but it was horrible me. I wanted to destroy it but I couldn't get my hands up so I head-butted it.
"I just kept seeing the boy's head with me hitting it twice. I kept seeing it all the time and I thought I had killed him."

****. Heavy duty.

A very sad story, this one. 🙁

Well in the next few weeks a lot of schools will have new ideas for lesssons.

ENGLISH, write an essay about a well loved teacher who suffers a nervous breakdown and attacks a school child.

History, discuss the changes in the law and behaviour of teachers that where brought in after a teacher attacked a school boy in his class back in 2010,

Physics, what would be the force needed to knock sence into a school kid who was upseting the teacher,possibly practical demonstration.

Biology, how to stop blood flow from a serious head wound(first aid content),

Humanities, How many social workers, do gooders, and team leaders should be involved in the retraining of lower non working class familiy school children to a normal and acceptable way of behaviour,

RE, is it wrong to attack somebody and should you offer forgiveness no matter the provocation,

Careers guidance, should you become a teacher ,or a criminal.

Thankfully the child did not die,but serious questions must be asked of the mangement of the school, and heads must roll,for serious negligence for allowing this poor teacher to continue attending school.

Hopefully now the teachers will retake charge of the asylums.

tron, I was talking about the general assumption on this thread that modern kids are horrible because they arent.

Hopefully now the teachers will retake charge of the asylums.

Ooh, Project, quick! There's some Muslim Hoodies raping Swans over there!

I am going to get a dumbell as a desk paperweight…Problem is, as AA says,the kids never get the blame,somebody swears at you? Serves you right for confronting them over their use of mobile phone during class.They have no idea that there might be a consequence to the way they behave…Until they go to local tech and get thrown out for 4 years for swearing at a lecturer.

Thankfully the child did not die,but serious questions must be asked of the mangement of the school, and heads must roll,for serious negligence for allowing this poor teacher to continue attending school.

Absolutely, all his managers must take some responsibility for not seeing it coming.

Problem is, as AA says,the kids never get the blame,somebody swears at you? Serves you right for confronting them over their use of mobile phone during class.

Not all schools are like this. Some have leadership which backs you all the way. Just choose your school carefully and teaching is fine.

robbo, sadly the children are not deemed important enough to choose which school they have to attend.

project – Member

…..but serious questions must be asked of the mangement of the school, and heads must roll,for serious negligence for allowing this poor teacher to continue attending school.

.

😕 "Poor teacher" ? …….well you've certainly changed your attitude towards teachers project !

I thought according to you, all teachers were lazy workshy shysters with stress free cushy jobs.

Was it ditching the Daily Mail, what done it ?

Ernie, some teachers are, as are some of the workforce, sadly this teacher was allowed to go back to school and snapped,like i said questions need to be asked of the managers who sent/allowed him back, also the children in the class and the parents.

Sadly i never read the Daily Mail,