[Closed] Nick Clegg ...hes playing them now!

Hauge aint grinning now!

As a Labour man I would prefer it if we did not court another party for their affections,Brown should have stood down when the election result came in, looking as though he has been pushed now by Mandie and his cronies clinging on to a bit of power.

Best poker player in Westminster.

miliband for leader? the americans would love that. flipping mandi is heading the talks now, what a shark!

edit

How TF is Clegg able to be in a position of such political importance?

Just let the Tories into Downing street. They'll make a mess of things, we'll have another election in a few months time, and we can get rid of them and get back to normal.

How TF is Clegg able to be in a position of such political importance?

You think this is bad? Wait until/if we get some sort of PR. Before you know it, major political parties will have to cosy up to extremist loons to form a government.

Either way, the person/party coming third should not hold so much sway. Nor should a multiply disgraced, unelected conman.

I'm a Labour voter through & through, i would class myself as a socialist even.
Labour lost the election, although the Tories didn't convince the electorate either Labour need to stand down with dignity. Let the Tories form a minority Govt. & watch them squirm as they fail to get anything done before being dragged to the polls again.

The LibDems need to be very careful they don't sell themselves for 30 pieces of silver...

25% of voters voted Lib Dem hardly a couple of people is it??

minority government with the shit hitting the fan in Europe? sure id love to see cam and his muppets making a mess. but george osbourne during financial crisis? no ta

Muddy, a valid point there. Sadly, it is not "real" Labour people who get to decide, but Mandelson and Balls et al.

HTF is mandy still around, he hasn't even been elected and they had to make him a life peer so he could serve in govt FFS. Time for the lot of them to go back under the rock they crawled out from and let someone else **** it all up for a few years.

Before you know it, major political parties will have to cosy up to extremist loons to form a government.

Well I understood that any party would need to get at least 5 % of the vote in order to have a voice in Parliament. Such a rule would exclude the real nutters.

Nor should a multiply disgraced, unelected conman.

So you don't want CallMeDave as PM after all?

Make your mind up Flashy... 🙄

maybe this new style of politics will be for the better, there is no way blair would have been able to be so flippent with our liberties and passed so much bloat-law without such a big majority.

I thought the political mood of the country was best summed up by the slighly mad laughter of the audience on HIGNFY...

We iz fuked, tru dat.

Just what we need. Labour clinging on for their themselves but trying to paint a scene of martydom/only hanging around to help the voter.

Even with Lb-Dems on board LABOUR ARE TOO SHORT OF THE REQUIRED VOTES. This bit rankles with me. Its 'if' along with 'oh and maybe we can convince others later on'. All at the expensive of our economy. An obstinate gamble.

The voting public will become tired of this soon. I hope Labour suceeds though. In 18months time they will be enjoying two decades of opposite again.

Remember the last time they tried this.

[url=

is Nick Clegg?[/url]

straight PR will never happen in the UK - one simple reason, the BNP - no party is willing to countenance being responsible for The Nazis having more seats than the SNP, the greens, Plaid Cymru, DUP or SLDP - Fifth biggest party, over half a million votes!

Cleggy's trying to play the estate agent game - unfortunately for him the "other offer" is a lot weaker than the one put on the table by Cameron.

LABOUR ARE TOO SHORT OF THE REQUIRED VOTES.

Ummm...I think that happened all three main parties. But don't let facts stand in the way of your prejudices hora. The plain fact is that the British are going into some kind of inane spiral of hand-wringing because there may be a coalition...while the rest of Europe looks on with amusement.

What Talkemada said.

And : [b][i]"25% of voters voted Lib Dem hardly a couple of people is it?? "[/i][/b]

23 % actually. Which is about the same as they got 5 years ago. And they came third. And they got almost 2 million votes less than Labour.

Although you could be forgiven for not realising that. As Clegg appears to believe that whatever political complexion the next government is, it must involve him.

The last time we had a hung Parliament was early mid 70s n'est pas? The 70's was hardly a period of Political/Social and financial stability was it? Really needs to be sorted well and not necessarily quickly.

I was disappointed that Lib Dems spoke to the Cons first as NC said that he WOULDN'T form a coalition with them at any cost and only Labour if GB went. I suppose you could blame GB for not going straight away (or at least announcing the stand down) for Lib Dems not doing what they said. And in some ways you can understand them talking to the player holding the most cards. I was just disappointed to see him appear not to stick to his stated convictions straight off the bat. But he's a politician isn't he. And to be fair who knows what is going on behind closed doors?

IMO Clegg and the party really need to man up. They do appear to hold the big card. I would really like to see a Lab/Lib Dem coalition. I do think that they could actually do some good. Even though I am disillusioned with Labour I'd hate to see the Cons in power especially with that smug Blair II at the controls. Having said that though having Mandy pulling the strings is in no ones interest.

As for PR, I'm sure that there must be some way for a semi PR system to be created to eliminate/minimise the influence of the lunatic fringe. Maybe a pre-election voting system to set up the parties who would be able to go forward to the General Election.

mmm...I think that happened all three main parties. But don't let facts stand in the way of your prejudices hora

I think you miss his point: Labour plus Lib-Dem still does not command a majority in the house, to get that they need to "buy in" the SNP, Plain & AN other on every major decision, from who leads the party through to the budget (and tell me that Salmond wont demand a high price for his support) blackmail on every bill, political paralysis, no certainty - like herding cats for the entire life of the parliament.

Lib-Dems cannot afford another Election anytime soon, in fact theres only one party that can!

Maybe Cleggie thinks he can do a Lloyd George and become PM despite being leader of the smaller party in the coalition!

Why did Brown have to stand down? IMO He's steered Britain through the last few years of financial trouble as well as anyone could and certainly better than many people could have done.

People complain that he wasn't "voted in by the public" and became PM by default after TB. Doesn't that mean that whomever replaces him now will be in the same situation? They weren't "the leader of the party that people voted for"?

🙂

Why did Brown have to stand down?

Mandelson told him to.

in all this shit I'm still amazed that Brown is the guy getting blamed by some, well Hora. Its the Tories not wanting to bend and the lib dems going for their own agenda that is leading the country into the mire. Brown has done almost nothing, other than wtach the Libs and Tories not agree and put another option in place.

ps this is very very funny

To come kicking and screaming back to the original topic, I found this tweet rather amusing (sorry I forget source):

[i]At this rate Clegg'll get PR, no Trident, £750 cashback and promise Balls will wear mankini. >Plus Chequers every other weekend[/i]

I think you miss his point

Nah....I don't Zulu. My point is more about the fear of coalition governments (largely driven by those who financially back the party who despite large scale disillusionment with New Labour/Brown, the failure of the Liberal Democrats bounce, still couldn't deliver a Tory majority). No wonder the likes of that cock Adam Boulton is frothing at the mouth. It's going to be a difficult few weeks while Cameron answers some awkward questions from his paymasters.

no friends in politics. mandi must be loving it!

Personally if I were Dave et al, I'd be letting the Labour/ Lib Dem lot have it. Let them cock it right up and force an election in 6 months. In fact lets have another now. Save us this circus. Either way the country is in for a rocky ride.

the first time I saw it I thought Boulton was some no mark Tory they had dragged up, to find out he works for sky was even funnier!!

[i]while Cameron answers some awkward questions from his paymasters.[/i]

Ashcroft's obvious out-of-pocket disappointment is one of the great joys of this election.

CaptainFlashheart:

Mandelson told him to.

...a senior source within the Labour Party told CFH.

CFH and a Labour senior sauce? Together?

Sly floor-crossing dog.

Mandy is a dark lord indeed. You look at him and think "that guy would have no qualms about having me killed if it helped him". I bet he keeps black books on everyone.

A good read on the current situation and likely outcomes which I thought quite credible.

http://www.stephenfry.com/2010/05/09/stalemate-pr-and-pr-ice-cream-bananas-and-fudge/

CFH and a Labour senior sauce?

[img] [/img]

(From the Stephen Fry page)

[i]Within three months I imagine that any Lib Dem/Labour/Others coalition will fall, a General Election will be called, the Lib Dem vote will be decimated, the Conservatives brought to full power and Electoral /Constitutional Reform will be nothing but a wistful memory as those of us with distaste for conservatism hunker down for the duration. Demos, riots, overturned cars in the streets, many more homeless, infrastructure decay, a rise in crimes against the person and property, a happy time perhaps for the City and the secure middle classes, a dreadful time for the vulnerable, the disabled, the physically and mentally ill, the homeless and the poor. I remember the main feeling induced by living under Thatcher was shame. It was shaming to live in a country that could be so proudly, gloatingly unkind, so vulgar, shabby and ungracious in its attitudes to the outsider, the weak and the destitute. Goodness knows the Labour administration has been very, very far from perfect, but I think we will only appreciate the unheralded and uncelebrated good it did when the props it built up for the poor, the disabled and the disadvantaged have been kicked away.[/i]

[i]ps this is very very funny

That IS funny. Rupert Murdoch's "Sky News" is certainly [i]not[/i] unbiased but we all know that already.

ToryBoy Boulton was also bollocked for his bias questioning of Nick Clegg, in contravention of the pre-established rules, during the Leader's debate.

🙂

it could just be that both the Tories & Labour are trying to avoid being the next government - & who can blame them?

They could just be faking the interest in doing a deal - no, they really could 😉

You think this is bad? Wait until/if we get some sort of PR. Before you know it, major political parties will have to cosy up to extremist loons to form a government.

how come PR works just fine on mainland europe?

how come PR works just fine on mainland europe?

Doesn't work that well here in Spain.

what are the problems with PR in Spain mogrim?

If you listen carefully you can hear the right-wing wolves baying for Cameron's blood. He knows his neck is on the line and will do a deal at almost any cost.
Clegg also has to play it carefully with his MPs and grass roots (many who voted tactically anti-Tory), or we could have three new party leaders and a new election before the year is out.

Demos, riots, overturned cars in the streets, many more homeless, infrastructure decay, a rise in crimes against the person and property, a happy time perhaps for the City and the secure middle classes, a dreadful time for the vulnerable, the disabled, the physically and mentally ill, the homeless and the poor.

I'm amazed how popular this narrative is (hell, I'm impressed by how skilled Labour are at using narrative in general - the time spent studying postmodernism obviously paid off), that as soon as the Tories get in, they start spitting on plebs and create a virtual civil war, whilst under Labour, everything is hunky dory.

We've seen the police killing and beating people at demonstrations, our economy implode, a huge rise in crimes against the person (mainly because people carry more high value items, and cars are more difficult to steal) which hasn't been dealt with, local councils spying on people, and a huge amount of racial / religious tension whipped up by overblown claims about the threat of terrorism.

But of course, the Tories are the nasty party and Labour are lovely.

a huge rise in crimes against the person (mainly because people carry more high value items, and cars are more difficult to steal) which hasn't been dealt with

Labour are lovely.

But of course, the Tories are the nasty party

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/7708076/Alastair-Campbell-and-Adam-Boulton-TV-row-full-transcript.html ]Blimey, I just read the transcript of the Adam Boulton moment....oops![/url]

But of course, the Tories are the nasty party and Labour are lovely.

what are the problems with PR in Spain mogrim?

* The balance of power is held by small, regional parties, leading to an uneven distribution of funding, duplication of services and layers of government, etc.

* Party lists mean politicians are much more disconnected from the local populace.

* Extremist parties (the political wing of ETA springs to mind) in government.

The last point I'm slightly divided on, if they're elected in a free election, they should have the right to representation. And Sinn Fein is a perfect example of how political engagement can soften positions.

[s] our economy implode[/s] the world economy implode

Fixed that for you.

I don't understand why people think a coalition would be best when it's between two parties that are far apart on ideological grounds? Seems to me the problem is that LD/Con wouldn't get on well because they are too far apart, and LD/LAB/Others wouldn't get on because there'd be too many of them.

I still vote for the latter though because at least Plaid/SNP/Green etc are on the same side, so to speak.

It's great watching all the tory boys frothing at the mouth.

Of course Nick Clegg is going to examine all the options before throwing his lot in with whoever he picks. Why on earth would he back CallMeDave, Osbourne and Hague before being absolutely sure that they are compatible? Likewise with Uncle Grumpy.

It's only a couple of days since the election FFS and looking at the percentages each party commanded, no-one exactly set the world on fire did they?

* The balance of power is held by small, regional parties, leading to an uneven distribution of funding, duplication of services and layers of government, etc.

ok but isn't that actually an argument for proper devolution?

Of course Nick Clegg is going to examine all the options before throwing his lot in with whoever he picks. Why on earth would he back CallMeDave, Osbourne and Hague before being absolutely sure that they are compatible?

I quite agree, he has a duty to get the best deal for his party, and I voted tory. Everyone else would do the same.

the world economy implode

Whilst that is true we were over spending so now times aren't so good the budget deficit is horrendous and pain will follow.

Personally if I were Dave et al, I'd be letting the Labour/ Lib Dem lot have it. Let them cock it right up and force an election in 6 months.

"The balance of power is held by small, regional parties, leading to an uneven distribution of funding, duplication of services and layers of government, etc."
ok but isn't that actually an argument for proper devolution?

"[s]our economy implode[/s] the world economy implode"
Fixed that for you.

I am starting to tire of this "between them Labour and Libs got 54% of the vote therefore they have the popular mandate to rule". That's like saying Liverpool and Everton got more points than Chelsea in the Premiership so they should share the trophy instead.

Whichever way it goes it could get messy and the Libs may not come out of it smelling of Roses.

- Cleggs gonna look stupid if he goes with Labour after going on about working with the party with the most votes/seats
- the Libs start throwing their (little) weight about to make stupid policies happen. Won't be a good advert for their beloved PR.
- Labours track record of blaming others - it'll no doubt be the Libs fault if things go pear shaped in a LibLab pact.
- Again, Cons won't be far behind blaming Libs if they cosy up together.

Wouldn't want to be Clegg now. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I think Clegg knew he had to look to the Tories first after what he said in the campaign. However many of the lib dem activists and voters would not be happy in coalition with the Tories. Thus Clegg has to get a very good deal to sell it to the party. This then leaves the Tories in a difficult position as a deal that would keep the lib dems on side would not be acceptable to the frothing tory right - PR, positive on Europe, etc.

To me it doesn't look like there is a deal to be made there unless its a policy by policy one. They are too far apart for coalition.

A deal between Labour and the lib dems is much easier to do. However getting and keeping all the odd bods on side as well would never be easy. However that could backfire badly on the Lib dems as "keeping labour in power"

I think the tories should conceed enough to the lib dems to get a queens speech thru - but not enough to get a full coalition in place and then run as a minority government.

A one year programme and then new elections

Wouldn't want to be Clegg now

Slight problem with Labour/Libdem is that they'd need to get other minor parties to join in too. I can't see that anyone can give more on the PR thing than offering referendum.

I think the tories should conceed enough to the lib dems to get a queens speech thru - but not enough to get a full coalition in place and then run as a minority government.

That's like saying Liverpool and Everton got more points than Chelsea in the Premiership so they should share the trophy instead

It's nothing like it! Sport is adversarial, and the aim is to find one winner. The electoral system is not like that at all, it's meant to a) represent the people and b) allow governments to govern. Totally different set of requirements.

Only if you think the tail should wag the dog

as I said, its a argument for proper devolution. The idea that minority views are somehow less important because they are regionally biased just indicates the farcical deliniation of national/regional boundaries and the electoral system in many cases.

If the tail is wagging the dog then there needs to be two dogs (or something like that 🙂 )

Cameron has been negotiating for 3 days and has not been able to get agreement with Clegg, they then start panicking and make offer of voting reform which was obviously not on the table when negotiating.

I just cannot see why anyone is hammering Clegg when he has tried to get a deal with Cameron, personally I do not care what happens anymore but am fed up with the pathetic reporting. The interview with Adam Boulton and the interview with Kay Burley what the hell is going on?

I can't see that anyone can give more on the PR thing than offering referendum.

Either way, the person/party coming third should not hold so much sway. Nor should a multiply disgraced, unelected conman.

So who should hold sway, the party that failed to comprehensively beat one of the most unpopular PMs of recent times, in the middle of a financial crisis?

It's nothing like it! Sport is adversarial, and the aim is to find one winner. The electoral system is not like that at all, it's meant to a) represent the people and b) allow governments to govern. Totally different set of requirements.

Exactly

'straight PR will never happen in the UK - one simple reason, the BNP - no party is willing to countenance being responsible for The Nazis having more seats than the SNP, the greens, Plaid Cymru, DUP or SLDP - Fifth biggest party, over half a million votes!'

That's one of the reasons we need PR, then when the BNP gets some seats it will force the major parties to deal with them by reclaiming voters rather than let them continue to be a continual thorn in everyones side as they are now.

It's beginning to look like no-one really wants to form a government as they know they will have to cut services and raise tax, and the negotiations are all about avoiding being the fall guys...

ocrider,

Thanks for that link. I think if nothing else it shows what a brilliant performer Alastair Campbell is and how desperate some of the tories backers, like Sky/Murdoch are.

I especially loved the bit where Campbell reminded Boulton that they were on television - what a pro!

So who should hold sway, the party that failed to comprehensively beat one of the most unpopular PMs of recent times, in the middle of a financial crisis?

when the BNP gets some seats it will force the major parties to deal with them by reclaiming voters

I am starting to tire of this "between them Labour and Libs got 54% of the vote therefore they have the popular mandate to rule".

+1. Completeley irrelevant and it [i]still[/i] doesn't give a majority. There is no way this could be justified.

It shouldn't be funny but..

That is all..

You think this is bad? Wait until/if we get some sort of PR.

The main reason for the intransigence currently is that Clegg and Cameron can and do agree, as they can at No 10, its just that the "jobs for the boys society" down the road, don't like it, as they know that their jobs for life will be under threat with PR. Now explain to me why that would be a bad thing.

Before you know it, major political parties will have to cosy up to extremist loons to form a government.

If you look at a normal distribution curve is is self evident that 80% of any population is likely to be near the middle. Currently under the first past the post system we get extremist governments. Hopefully once people realise that they can get a moderate government elected they will start to vote honestly for what they actually want, rather than tactically for what they dislike least. Most people I know hate the constant clash between left and right and simply want rid of dogma.

Either way, the person/party coming third should not hold so much sway.

Nor should a multiply disgraced, unelected conman.

I totally agree, so why is it that Cameron doesn't see that, and keeps banging on about his right to govern? Stop listening to the rhetoric, and get with the programme. The population voted for "None of the Above". Now the twunts have to sort it out between them..

It shouldn't be funny but..

The population voted for "None of the Above". Now the twunts have to sort it out between them..

I just love the circular argument here, that because your opposition is rubbish and you didn't manage to thrash them,

Not thrash them, just beat them under the current system. Face it, the Tories missed a massive open goal here.

Sport is adversarial, and the aim is to find one winner. The electoral system is not like that at all

Really?

So the politicians choose the government, not the people

Correct

The population voted for "None of the Above"

Fail to see why this is so hard to understand. Elections are NOT competitions, seriously. Get this out of your heads folks.