The only ultimate arbiter of value is where a buyer and seller agree to trade. “What it’s worth to them” is unknowable and meaningless until the trade is reached.

As for the house, go with A, but don’t be too optimistic about it working if the gap between what you will currently pay and what they will currently accept is too big.

The agent is the enemy, never reveal your cards!

I disagree – tell the agent the truth and make it clear why that is the offer so they can report back. I did just that when we bought – the house was on at a high price, the agent told us the price he knew would secure it, we offered what we believed it was worth due to its condition. We ended up getting it for what we were prepared to pay as it was fair and everyone knew it. I would have walked if they held out for anything close to their initial price.

Sometimes you need to walk away,
No point paying overpriced to someone who even then may not sell, to be in a house that clearly has put off a large audience..

If you meet people who are unrealistic then it’s very difficult to deal, my own experience was buying a freshly done up house which was £50k 25% premium on what they’d paid 12 months earlier it was clear they’d done some good work but it didn’t justify the premium.

Another house I liked but we knew it’d never go through , same couple live there 3 years later

Another house we liked circa £250k, the seller was only willing to sell if they could buy a specific £1.5m house for circa £1.2m, I asked him if he had the money to buy it and he said no they’d use the profit on this house to secure the mortgage, again his occupation didn’t match with his expectations..

Avoid timewasters

When we bought ours we thought it was overpriced so offered 30% below asking. We settled on 15% below asking.

The way you make it sound i’d be more inclined to put some letters round the area to see if anyone is selling in the near future, the house you’re after sounds like a dead duck, but someone close by might be thinking about it, a few printed off letters hand delivered could be a better option in the long run.

Sometimes you need to walk away,
No point paying overpriced to someone who even then may not sell, to be in a house that clearly has put off a large audience..

This.

The key part of any negotiation is being willing to walk away…

You’re trying to second guess the psychology of the vendor, which is not really your role in all of this. you have some money, they have a property for sale and if an agreement can be reached an exchange will be made…

I’d go for option ‘A’ make the offer you’d prefer to pay, let the estate agent use it to work on the vendor, they might come back with a counter offer or a flat rejection, if you feel like it’s worthwhile punt in that extra 5%.

But always be prepared to walk…

Can you find somebody to make an offer even lower than your proposed low offer?

never trust a single word that comes out of an estate agent’s mouth, they are working for the seller, generally on a commission basis so they want to get the maximum price they can and will spin all kinds of lies to achieve this. Offer what you think it’s worth, not what you think might please the seller

I’m sure that’s the case sometimes but I’m not sure it’s always true

My best friend is an agent at Foxtons (admittedly that’s perhaps a bit niche – big money London) but he tells me that a big part of his job is managing buyer expectations and getting them to be a bit more realistic with what they can afford.

Yes it’s in agents’ interest to get a good commission, but it’s also very much in their interest for turnover to happen. They’re an agent for the buyer, as well as the seller. The buyer has all the money, remember.

Yes it’s in agents’ interest to get a good commission, but it’s also very much in their interest for turnover to happen.

Definitely this. The agent wants a deal to happen so they get their x% commission.

Assemble two sets of friends & get them to both view the house a week or so apart. Get the first to make an offer at say 35% below asking price, the second at -30%, then you offer -25%…

Then sit and wait.

Of course only the vendor decides whether to sell.

My point is only a buyer can determine the value of a house by offering what they’re prepared to pay.
The vendor doesn’t have to except this offer – but this doesn’t mean the house has a higher value.

Exactly this. Go look at ebay.

never trust a single word that comes out of an estate agent’s mouth, they are working for the seller, generally on a commission basis

I’m currently selling my house. Well, sold, STC. The estate agent is on a flat fee, as was every other EA quote I had. It’s in their interests to get rid of it, for ten quid if needs be, there is no commission to be had.

I’d walk away, although option A seems a reasonable plan the seller you’re describing is so far out of touch with reality it wouldn’t surprise me if they ended up messing you about later even if they accepted a 15% below asking price offer now as they’ll resent that offer.

Ask someone else to be your sacrificial anode and get them to go a bit under – then when you offer a bit more a week or so later the vendor feels like they have gained?

When we bought ours we thought it was overpriced so offered 30% below asking. We settled on 15% below asking.

Ours was similar but we offered around 12% below the asking price (after the agent had suggested an offer of around 2% below asking would secure it). We eventually agreed on 10% below asking. And TBF I was right as the money we have spent bringing the property up to date has been around the amount we negotiated off the price.

I’d walk away, although option A seems a reasonable plan the seller you’re describing is so far out of touch with reality it wouldn’t surprise me if they ended up messing you about

we moved recently. Knowing that we had a motivated seller who we were sure wouldn’t pull out for no reason or mess us about was the only part of the whole ordeal that wasn’t a mega stress-fest!!

the seller you’re describing is so far out of touch with reality it wouldn’t surprise me if they ended up messing you about

This.
We had a nightmare buying this house, including the lady selling it turning up on our old house doorstep and having rant at my wife…

There were lies to the estate agent, lies to the vendor of the new house up the chain, lies to me (the purchaser), lies to her solicitor. All couched in the fact that she thought the house was worth 10% / £20k more than it was and everyone should give her that money.

There were two houses in the chain, this one and a brand new build house half a mile away. Thankfully we had a housing developer who knew his nutcases from good customers and effectively we and the housing developer did a naughty (but legal) deal to secure this house through a cheeky trade in and cash gift…

To give you an idea of the nutter, 6 months after we moved in she turned up on our doorstep with her cat, box, feeding tray etc to say that we were to look after the cat from now on, as it kept roaming back to us anyway and was damaging the new furniture in her new house…

I wouldn’t do it again, any sign of a box of frogs from the vendor and I am out.

Poor cat! What happened (to the cat?)?

Poor frogs! What happened (to the frogs?)?

We found a house three years ago up for offers over £520k, it wasnt worth anywhere near that for very good reasons but the EA was friends with children of the woman who lived there. We viewed it several times with builders and offered what we thought it was worth and walked away when the offer was rejected.

Couple of months later it dropped to offers off £500k, then offers over £480k. It never sold in the end. Even at £480k it was over priced by 10% compared to similar properties. It looked and smelt like it hadn’t been cleaned for years, proper knockout smell of cigarettes through out the house. It needed a new kitchen and bathrooms, carpets throughout, apparently replastering probably would have been the best way to get rid of the smell properly. The gardens were a mess too.

Shame as it could have been a cracking home.

What happened (to the cat?)?

It was sent away with the box of frogs owner. Noticeably it ceased arriving randomly at our house a few months later.

In these situations I would also think very carefully about the house. Although you are happy with it and its location it appears clear that the majority don’t. Which means it will bite you when you come to sell it (if you ever do). If you love it enough, as others have said, then decide what yo are prepared to pay for it and what you think it is worth. And if the seller doesn’t want to accept then walk away and forget all about it. If the offer is rejected and you spend a lot of time thinking about it and what it might be, you are more likely to make an emotional decision and pay more than you should for it. And then regret it years later when you struggle to sell it. Possibly.

I had to serve a trespass notice on the occupier of a house we bought when she refused to leave after exchanging and we had the keys. Arrived with movers to find her effectively staging a sit in. She wasn’t listening to called the Police who removed her eventually. Locksmith was waiting and instantly changed every single lock in the place ! Madness.

@Ewan

Did you resolves this in the end.

We’ve found ourselves in the same boat. Their house had been on the market since March, barely any viewings due to the work that needs doing and the colossal garden which is overgrown is immediately putting people off. They’ve had one sale fall through for almost asking price but are determined they can get it again. No offers since it fell through.

We offered 35k less than asking as our first. Obviously declined by them, it’s a probate sale with one vendor being stubborn and wanting asking price and the other vendor just wanting rid.

The Estate agent is trying to tell them it’s not worth what they are asking as other properties have come on in the same area at a good price and been sold immediately but they just wont listen.

We’ll put in another bid tomorrow or after the weekend I think.

Yes we did in the end. We put in a low bid (15% below the current asking, which was 80% of what it was on originally). This predictably got rejected, but gave the agent the opportunity to have a another ‘be realistic’ chat with the seller to reduce the price by another 25k. This was closer to the actual value. We then put in another offer at 95% of the revised asking. This was rejected but another party got involved at this point they’d put in an offer at 94% of asking, we got told best and final. We went up 5k, turns out the other party also came in at the exact same price. The agent then investigated our chains, ours was one shorter so we got the property.

At this point the wife and I realised that this wasn’t the property for us afterall (during all of this messing around, we’d seen another property (see my thread on the underpinned house that wasn’t underpinned afterall)). We took the weekend to think it over but withdrew the bid on Monday (whilst feeling like dickheads, but at least we minimised the messing around). The other party was then offered it for the same price, and they agreed. So all is well. The property sold for 82% the (original) original asking price (the property was expensive, so this was a bit over 100k cheaper).

Good luck.

Ahh glad you found something you want. Thanks, I think we’ll need it. This is the only house we’ve seen that the Mrs is happy with the garden, just short of 100m long. All the locals we met today think the vendors are being silly, as does the estate agent, just need them to have a good hard think about it and be realistic about a sale in the current time.

it might help manage their expectations if someone else came round to view the house and offered even less for it a few days ahead of your revised offer? I’m not sure if you know anyone else who might be interested in a similar house though..

@5lab – I dont know anyone like that no. The estate agents are also only letting people view the house who have sold their property and shown their Mortgage in Principle, apparnetly this gets rid of some time wasters and people who just like looking at houses on the weekend.

that’s a shame. Maybe you forgot about one friend who is moving from rental accommodation so has no-where to sell, and got an online agreement in principle somewhere like here -> https://www.barclays.co.uk/mortgages/agreement-in-principle/

it’s a probate sale with one vendor being stubborn

Friends have just got new neighbours 4 years after the owner died and 3.5 years after their daughter put it on the market! The asking price was well in excess of what better houses in the street sold for and the seller never budged on price until lockdown.

5lab – what you are suggesting sounds a bit like fraud? If you have to lie to people’s faces it as at the very least dishonest and unethical, and karma will bite you one day.

I agree hels.

No need for any fruad, seems the sister had words and came back with a decent counter offer. We accpeted and moving forward now 🙂