Why? What purpose is the war in Ukraine serving other than the pointless waste of the lives of soldiers on both sides? It’s making arms companies lots of money that for sure, and it’s enabling politicians across Europe to stroke their egos and act like big men, but I see few other benefits.

Some good answers ^^ IMHO

Moscow is in Europe so I guess that you include President Putin in that statement, which isn’t a problem because he is the protagonist.

I don’t see many other politicians stroking their egos, but many are getting a massive reality check of their preparedness for war and some are acting like men (and it is the men) who cannot make a decision because they’d rather it all went away.

Arms companies are going to be making money, but there will have to be a massive investment and expansion in their capabilities in Europe, all brought about by Russia’s illegal and unjustified invasion. The investment will increase growth and productive capacity in economies damaged by Russia’s actions.

Investment will have to be made in restoring Ukraine; it’s people, memories, historical buildings and treasures can never be restored fully

We haven’t done Africa for a long time. Largest world reserves of Cobalt.

No need, Russia’s providing its special brand of stability in the region https://carnegieendowment.org/2023/02/28/russia-s-growing-footprint-in-africa-s-sahel-region-pub-89135

Eastern European mercs are involved in the DRC (74% world cobalt reserves) where the Government is believed to have hired the Russian state-funded Wagner Group, as have Mali and the CAR

.

@timba beat me to it re Wagner in Africa (now openly controlled by the Russian state)

Also Russia has supported and built close ties with Iran. The Shahad drones were bought with $2billion in gold bullion (!). This relationship has emboldened Iran to spread its influence and destabilise the middle east even further. One aspect of this was the training of Hammas fighters and encouragement to commit the horrendous atrocities on 7th October and the even more horrendous atrocities in Gaza at the moment.  The only winner from that is Iran. Backed by Russia.

Navalny sadly was the only opposition figure of note

No need, Russia’s providing its special brand of stability in the region

Perfect, we can save the poor Africans from the Dutch Russians

We support Ukraine to push his forces back beyond Ukraines recognised borders. However much that costs us, it will be cheaper than having him go through Ukraine, and then Poland, then the Baltics. It may also serve as a warning to other nationalist sabre rattling regimes to stick within the rule of law.

Pretty sure that ship has already sailed, the Donbas is not going back to Ukraine as long as the Ukrainians are the only ones fighting for it. So then the only other alternative is for Western troops to do it. Are you prepared for a full on hot war with Russia and all the consequences that will derive from that? And you really think Iran, China and others will be scared of the west after seeing the clusterf*** in Ukraine? They’ll be pissing themselves at how weak and incompetent the west is.

We can support genuine democratic opposition/reform to Putin in Russia, though again, our track record at that kind of thing is pretty poor.

Yes great, lets do more meddling and interference which got us into this mess in the first place. Like you say, the West’s track record of exporting ‘democracy’ has been a catastrophic failure wherever they’ve tried it, and you thing we should do more?!

I don’t think I’m the naive one here.

…it’s enabling politicians across Europe to stroke their egos and act like big men, but I see few other benefits

European governments don’t want to be spending more on defence, they don’t want their funds going to Ukraine during a downturn… they have absolutely zero choice. The decision has been made for them by Putin. There are still some “Russia will not try and expand its empire westwards through military force” people who can’t see the obvious in front of them… but they are the few who consider that it is Western European leaders wanting and willing military build up… everyone else can see that they don’t want it, but they have little choice.

Hang on, apologies Dazh, I went off on one there… want it or not, some will absolutely try and benefit from it with a bit of “acting like a big man” for political gain and adding to their own myth making, you’re spot on there.

Access to the body for the family is taking a while…

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/02/19/alexei-navalny-yulia-body-russia/

And you really think Iran, China and others will be scared of the west after seeing the clusterf*** in Ukraine? They’ll be pissing themselves at how weak and incompetent the west is.

On the one hand that is a valid point, but on another they must be wondering if an allegience with Russia has actually been worth anything given that Russia has proven itself to be largely ineffective against a much weaker neighbour, and the west has managed to make what should have been a month long walk over last 2 years without actually putting themselves directly in harms way…

So then the only other alternative is for Western troops to do it.

No, it isn’t. The reason that the Ukraine War doesn’t look like any recent western war and looks a tremendous amount like the Great War is Air Supremacy. Remember a while back in the Ukraine thread when you (and others) decried Armchair generals discussing war and the types of vehicles being used (include airplanes) and so on ? Well the criticism I made at the time still stands, unless you understand modern warfare, how its conducted, by which force, and the reasons for that, you’ll continue to make bad assumptions like the one I quoted up there.

And you really think Iran, China and others will be scared of the west after seeing the clusterf*** in Ukraine? They’ll be pissing themselves at how weak and incompetent the west is.

That teeny, broke, corrupt, Ukraine has held Russia at a standstill for the last 2 years should’ve have made all those militaries sit up and take notice. That Xi has recently had to fire the head of rocket forces in China becasue all their ballistic missiles were filled with water rather than rocket fuel, tells you all you need to know about how competent China’s military are.

Incredibly brave people.

Incredible scenes in Moscow today, surreal even. Hundreds chanting Navalny’s name as his body is brought to the church – honouring a man the Kremlin branded an extremist, and killed pic.twitter.com/Oy3FeZCkyL

— Matthew Luxmoore (@mjluxmoore) March 1, 2024

Big crowds are being reported in St Petersburg too.

I had a friend return from Russia last week and she was followed & videoed by police as she attended a vigil in St Petersburg for Alexey Navalny. She has personally known Navalny for a very long time so probably known to the police/FSB.

She said the vast majority of people in Russia refuse talk about Putin but she tells me they don’t like him or what he is doing. Hopefully the death of Navalny will help bring about Putins downfall.

I have a horrible feeling this isn’t going to end well for some of those brave enough to show their support

Safety in numbers today, but not tonight, tomorrow, next week…

Some balls on these people. I’m struggling to imagine any equivalent situation I could put myself in in Britain, doing something so simple and rising having your life (and or your family’s) ruined or ended.

I’m struggling to imagine any equivalent situation I could put myself in in Britain, doing something so simple and rising having your life (and or your family’s) ruined or ended.

Becoming a journalist and reporting on American war crimes ?

What killing are you referencing with that?

What killing are you referencing with that?

Killings, plural

What killing are you referencing with that?

Busy thread. quotes help differentiate as to who that is being addressed.

Busy thread. quotes help differentiate as to who that is being addressed.

Apologies,  that was for you. I’m aware of plenty if journalists getting killed, just not so many getting killed in Britain.

Apologies, that was for you. I’m aware of plenty if journalists getting killed, just not so many getting killed in Britain.

Me neither.

However theres two parts to the quote, so maybe i should have specifically pointed to the first part of it rather than the latter.

having your life (and or your family’s) ruined or ended.

So the part im referring to, and lets be fair given it can only refer to this part, “Ruined”

So while Mr Assange certainly would have his life ruined by being extradited to the US , it might also lead to his death, possibly by his own hand.

Given that it is Britain where the extradition hearing is being held, and thus the ruling on it directly affecting Mr Assange, Britain is playing a rather large part in what happens to him.

The British police were the group who entered the Ecuadorian embassy to forcibly remove Mr Assange and to take him into custody, probably due to a deal done between Ecuador and the united States.

I expect whatever this deal was it was probably aligned to an economic one, along the lines of the US-Ecuador trade agreement, which was announced in the spring of last year. Timing eh ?

‘Put him out or the trade agreement wont be ratified’ is purely speculation on my part, though the facts appear to fit.

Cheers @dynati response and clarification appreciated. Although MCTD’s response is at risk of making me circle round to the same question round again…