4x in a house. Low volume cisterns. Low volume washing machine & dishwasher. A couple of showers a day and a shallow bath for the boys.

About 110 m3 of water (110 tons!) a year at £1.50 a ton = £165 for water and 90p a ton to take it away again = £99

so about £300 a year including standing charges.

Severn Trent.

I thought my fixed rate was steep at £350/annum.

£621 is criminal, which water company is that?

You want to try living in the South West Water catchment area, that would be considered a small bill. Even with a water meter my bills are astronomical.

Makes me think if there are ways of saving bath/shower water to use for flushing the loo. Apart from buckets….

Seem to remember seeing some sort of contraption on tv years ago, not sure if there’s anything around now?

The search term you’re probably looking for is “greywater”.

You’d probably never see a return on investment for retro-fitting a greywater recycling system, though.

Water company chap came early so an update, TBH so far I think they might be the best company I’ve ever had to sort a problem out with.

Confirmed there is a leak outside and said they have a service where 2 chaps will come for a couple of hours and try to find and resolve the problem for no charge. If they fail then they can continue but at cost – or I can find my own people to do it. I was also told that once fixed they’ll work out my new usage and then correct my bill to take this into account. I may ban washing for a short period…!

Makes me think if there are ways of saving bath/shower water to use for flushing the loo. Apart from buckets….

Seem to remember seeing some sort of contraption on tv years ago, not sure if there’s anything around now?

The search term you’re probably looking for is “greywater”.

You’d probably never see a return on investment for retro-fitting a greywater recycling system, though.

A cheap (free?) version of this is a bucket collecting in the sink / shower whilst you are waiting for the water to heat up. Use this to refill the toilet cisterns… #frugal!

I frequently do lifecycle costings for developments. Generally rainwater recycling for toilet flushing etc has a payback period circa 20 years. Troublke is you need large enough storage tanks to make it useable in all but the dryest periods (current conditions excepted), and dual supplies – one for recycled water and one for mains water in case recycled isn’t availoable. Hence capital costs are huge compared to savings.

Regarding meters, we had one fitted last summer (compulsory). Feared the worst as 4 of us including 2 teenage daughters, bike washing etc. Fact is our bill has halved! 😀

Once again we are ripped off with utilities and successive Governments are too weak and pathetic to sort it out

Dearie me. Utility companies in the UK are incredibly heavily regulated. OFWAT in particular places all the water companies under immense pressure (sic) to provide a even playing field. Each water company will have a HUGE team of people who’s job is nothing more than ensuring the regulatory controls are met and the pricing falls in line.

If a water company gets a single complaint, it will change how much profit they can make next year. Each company is told precisely how much they can spend on infrastructure investment, how much can be allocated to improvements, how much they must spend on appeasing landholders and even how much they can spend on securing their assets. Each company must also submit their entire set of books annually to OFWAT, will be compared against each of the other water companies and placed into a graded structure based on service level and again will have that used against them to determine how much profit they are permitted to make. No water company can run a profit making non-core business and can only invest in specific sectors.

Does that sound weak to you?

mudshark, this is the relevant section of their charges scheme

2.2.8
Leakage from Metered Supplies
The customer is liable for the cost of all the water registered on the meter. No allowance will be made in respect of water wasted by leakage from customers’ internal or external pipe-work (irrespective of whether such pipework is above or below ground, or buried or visible), customers’ plumbing fittings, and customers’ appliances. The only exception to this is in the case of the first defect at domestic premises as specified in our Code of Practice on leakage from domestic premises. A copy of the Code of Practice is available, free of charge, upon request.

http://www.waterplc.com/userfiles/file/Detect_and_repair_leaks.pdf

is your friend

If they are planning to charge you for water that has leaked away then you can construct an argument that this is in breach of their Licence Condition E to show no due preference or discrimination to a class of customers

Meter inspection booked (TWO WEEKS away). Why so long?! Anyway- I know the space is far too tight for one to be fitted as they’d have to part dismantle the fitted kitchen as the space is too tight as it is. So I imagine it’d end up being a reduced-tariff offer they’ll give me.

Meter inspection booked (TWO WEEKS away). Why so long?! Anyway- I know the space is far too tight for one to be fitted as they’d have to part dismantle the fitted kitchen as the space is too tight as it is. So I imagine it’d end up being a reduced-tariff offer they’ll give me.

Surely it would be installed outside?

Yes, wherever the stop cock is on the boundary of your property.That’s where ours is anyway.

Wow! I pay over £100 pcm direct debit…

South West Water, or Dick Turpin as I like to think of them…

Even by their own web site wizard, we should save about £500/year…

Will be changing to a meter…

Got my bill yesterday and I am £52 in credit. Moved house from 2 bed terrace to 3 bed detached last year and bill trebled to about £450 so decided to have a meter installed. (I live alone). In future they are going to charge me £12+ a month so probably about £16 once I have my credit back. Happy bunny with a meter here.

big_n_daft – I’m happy with the way they’re dealing with this so far, if they find and fix my leak with no charge to me I’ll be very happy!

Wow! I pay over £100 pcm direct debit…

So £1200 a year – do you live in an ex manor house?!

I thought my fixed rate was steep at £350/annum.
£621 is criminal, which water company is that?

You want to try living in the South West Water catchment area, that would be considered a small bill. Even with a water meter my bills are astronomical.

Yep South West Water bless em our water rates were about £970 a year ( 4 bed house) and that hurt 3 people showering every day eco bogs / washing machine / dishwasher / immaculate bikes / dirty cars

With a meter we are now paying about £110 a quarter

It is a monopoly I can get electricity/gas from tescos etc but water we have no choice

It is a monopoly I can get electricity/gas from tescos etc but water we have no choice

if you had choice your bill would be higher, the costs to have a market would be significant and you would be paying for them

I would be more upset at those who choose not to pay, they increase your bill

South West Water bless em

I’m upset that eveyone else in the country is subsiding your bill to the tune of £50/ household/annum just because you used to flush straight into the sea

A couple of water company people came to try and locate my leak using their free 2 hours but couldn’t so have now decided to put in a new pipe from to the house. The pamphlet I was given says they charge £326+VAT for 1st 10 metres then £27.35+VAT per metre after that. That’s not too bad though the guys who came suggested that the man who decides might find reasons to charge me more.

Water meters significantly reduce water flow….fact, eventually leading to overheating of CH systems and washing machines, the only way to prevent this is to fit a back/forward flow de-restriction by-pass around the meter rendering it safe!

interesting take on this. Nonsense and also illegal to bypass the meter.

Meter inspection booked (TWO WEEKS away). Why so long?! Anyway- I know the space is far too tight for one to be fitted as they’d have to part dismantle the fitted kitchen as the space is too tight as it is. So I imagine it’d end up being a reduced-tariff offer they’ll give me.

Meter inspections are probably quite low on the priority list of jobs to do, behind burst mains, water quality complaints and problems etc.
As already mentioned, the meter is more likely to go outside at the boundary of your property. Usually replaces the existing external stop tap.

Meter inspections are probably quite low on the priority list of jobs to do, behind burst mains, water quality complaints and problems etc.
As already mentioned, the meter is more likely to go outside at the boundary of your property. Usually replaces the existing external stop tap.

different team/ contractor doing the inspections to those looking for leaks etc. At this time of year there is high demand due to the billing activity for people without meters.

mudshark – Member

A couple of water company people came to try and locate my leak using their free 2 hours but couldn’t so have now decided to put in a new pipe from to the house. The pamphlet I was given says they charge £326+VAT for 1st 10 metres then £27.35+VAT per metre after that. That’s not too bad though the guys who came suggested that the man who decides might find reasons to charge me more.

I would ask for a copy of their procedures and the records for the meter installation. I would strongly suggest that it’s suspicious that a pipe that hasn’t burst for “x” years bursts after they have interupted your supply to fit the meter.

Put everything in writing, they have to provide a substantive response to each question

Thanks big_n_daft but I imagine the pipe had been quietly leaking for quite a while – one leak at least seems to be well away from the meter.

BTW, the one leak appears to be on a section fitted to go into the new kitchen when it was extended. The guys that came said as all the pipes are copper they must have all been there before the extension was built but that seems unlikely to me as I can’t see why the extra section would have been there before the extension was built. So maybe the builders used copper pipes as that was there already? Anyway, this is a little complicated as it means there is a T junction under ground from which one pipe goes into the utility room, where there is a stop cock, and the original one that goes into the old kitchen and feeds the water tank in the loft. There is a stop cock to this on the outside of the house.

So- the Assesor came round today and agreed that fitting a water meter was impractical. He then proposed to dig a trench on the drive and fit a water meter there. I’ve objected and asked to move to Assesed charges (fixed price) as digging a trench – even a small bloody one in your drive isn’t on.

Am I being fair? Or are they within their remit? Heres the text from their site:

Assessed charges – household where metering is impracticable

For a household property where a consumer has applied to have a meter fitted free of charge but where metering is impracticable, an assessed charge is available, comprising of a fixed annual sum varying according to property type except where only one person lives at the property

Get them to dig a trench, then you can have fun recreating the battle of the Somme on your own property at the weekend. I can come round and throw hand grenades at you if you want to make it really authentic

Ok long and short of it. Provider says they offered water meter- sorry if I refuse etc. So I said (all politely) I’ll contact Ofwat- one short phonecall and two days later I received a phonecall from my provider saying they will move me onto fixed/assessed-charge (which is what I really wanted as the ideal outcome). Plus….today I received a cheque for £25 to say sorry.

Wow.

Oh just had an update on my problems. Water company decided to charge me £1200 to put in a new pipe between meter and house – a lot more than I expected based on their booklet. My insurance company said I’m covered though so will hopefully all work out OK.

Mudshark- have you spoken to Ofwat? (apologies if have/I’m behind)

No I haven’t and as insurance is covering will leave it now. If I was having to pay I’d ask for a breakdown of costs and go from there but the insurance company have spoken to them so they must think all OK.

My angle is what if its not the external pipe? What if subsequently the leak is discovered behind plaster inside the house? Will they refund on the pipe. Have they checked the installed meter/seals alround it etc? or replaced with a new meter just incase first?

Well I suppose it could be the meter but it’s certainly outside the stop cock in the house as the meter was still turning when the stop cock was turned off. If it does turn out to be the meter then we’ll have an interesting conversation I’m sure.

What sort of pipe is going in? I imagine its one of those plastic things rather than cast iron. For £1,200 I’d want cast iron! If the leaks does transpire to be a faulty meter or at their end/should have been uncovered then Ofwat- with the question on a backdated claim on the excess water that’d you been charged. 😐

Wow.

They sound like an awesome water company.

Mind you, it is is SIM week next week.

I have been told I won’t be charged for the excess water – they’ll estimate what I would have used using a reading once all sorted.

🙂