Moving from Kent to Scotland (Dundee / Perth)

Myself, my wife and two kids aged 10 and 7 currently live in Kent. We’ve no family ties here and just sort of ended up here through work and settled. For various reasons including current work stresses, brexit and a desire for a better work life balance, we’ve been mulling a move to Scotland for a couple of years.

So we started tentatively keeping an eye on jobs in our fields in the NHS and then a good opportunity came up in my wife’s field at Ninewells in Dundee. After discussing it she applied and got offered an interview. We went up in October and stayed for a few days.

In terms of the area, we liked it. We stayed in Dundee and tried to get about as much as we could in the time we had. We visited Perth (the town and Kinoull Hill) and took a scenic route through the villages like Errol, to the south of the A90, and then looped back to the north through Blairgowrie, Coupar Angus and stopped at Camperdown Park. We also went to Broughty Ferry and over the bridge to Tentsmuir.

On that occasion she wasn’t successful but got good feedback and then a few weeks later another post became available there which was probably better suited so she applied again. She had the interview on Teams yesterday and was offered it!

We now have the tumble drier of emotions and a huge decision to make. Of course we’re minded to accept but it’s a scary thing. If it were just us, we would just do it, but obviously with the kids it seems so much more risky and daunting to unsettle them. However we hope that long term they will benefit. The youngest is excited, the eldest a bit more cautious and unsure.

The job is a promotion for my wife and with lower housing costs and the equity we’ve built up here we think we can move on just her salary. I will aim to get some locum or part time work but will probably focus initially on helping get us settled. Overall though the aim is to reduce our outgoings and have a better work life balance and better environment for the kids.

We’d really appreciate any words of advice as we have so many things to consider.

Where to start with schools?

What are good areas to live as we only scratched the surface on our visit? We really want space as a priority but with nearby facilities and of course good schools for the kids. My gut feeling from our trip was the east side of Perth and maybe up towards Blairgowrie? Or perhaps the villages west of Dundee towards Camperdown? Broughty Ferry seemed really nice too though?

I have seen this thread from a few months ago so have picked up some bits from there but would still appreciate other thoughts

Dundee

Sequencing the move? We’re on a 3 month notice period but I guess we’ll realistically have to sell up here and rent for a bit as unlikely to be able to get everything sorted to progress a sale and purchase in that time, especially with Covid. We’re probably looking at Late April/May so no idea what that means for schools either? But if we do rent, but then buy somewhere else in a different area, it may mean moving the kids again which we’d like to avoid if possible.

It’s all a bit mind blowing to be honest. Any words of advice greatly appreciated!

Nice one. It’s a bit of schlep to travel that distance, esp in bad weather and we get a fair bit of that ! Lots of nice bits around Dundee and across the bridge in Fife as well. Think about schooling as well obvs. Perth is lovely though, some nice houses there. North up towards Blairgowrie etc makes your travel even worse ?

We’ve been going through a move (back) up to Scotland. It can feel a bit overwhelming but it’s definitely doable. Take it step by step and it’ll work out – It’ll be an adventure if nothing else!

Our plan was a bit like yours in terms of try and sell and rent something while we looked for a house. Downside is as you say moving twice and unsettling kids but we thought it was worth it to get a place we wanted.

However, what we hadn’t accounted for was the dire stock of suitable rental family houses in Central Scotland. Even searching over a wide area genuinely nothing suitable came up to rent for months. Folk were wanting silly money for absolutely shite holes as well. Covid has hit supply of such houses and put the demand up.

So what we ended up doing was a mixture of home working and traveling up for work while we bought a house. It’s another option to avoid moving the kids twice with the added benefit that your wife can suss the job out.

Schools finish a month or so earlier in Scotland so you;d be there at the end of term really.

Don’t forget to factor the Scottish rate of income tax into your calculations if applicable.

You also may want to consider that there could be a bit more activity housing wise in the lead up to the stamp duty deadline. Normally end Jan, Feb, March are popular time to list houses. If you start looking in May you could be into the summer slump. So if you do want to sell and buy maybe consider cracking on in January / Feb. At least list your own house for sale.

Good luck!

You might find this useful https://simd.scot/#/simd2020/BTTTFTT/10.27927338262966/-3.2701/56.4733/

Schools are obviously a driver. Both in primary at that age older going into P6 or P7 depending on date of birth.

https://education.gov.scot/education-scotland/inspection-reports/

Don’t rule out independent sector if it’s in your budget.

I’ll write more later, but six and a half years ago I moved up from Kent to live halfway between Dunkeld and Blairgowrie.

It’s the best thing I have ever done and I’ve never been happier. Even if it’s still dark at 8.30am!

Barnhill, Forthill, the Ferry are all good places. If you go for those areas consider Grove High school over Monifieth High. Monifieth is a nice place live too but the high school decided a few years ago that if you couldn’t acheive 5 highers at grade C or above you had to leave and go to a college instead. This was purely to increase ratings rather than educate children.

Avoid Fintry, Kirktown, Douglas, Mill o’ Mains, Whitfield and anywhere around those areas. They were absolute shitholes when I lived there and I’ve seen no improvement over the years of visiting friends and family.

Lochee etc are ok but lots of tenements so if you want a house with a decent size garden you might struggle a bit.

If I was to move back home to the area it would be to either around Perth or to Newport or Tayport. One thing to consider about living over the bridge is it often gets shut in high winds (which being Dundee is not uncommon) and the detour is nearly 50 miles up to Perth and back down the other side of the Tay

That’s actually good to hear @boriselbrus

Been eyeing up that very area*. We’re pretty focused on paying off the mortgage over the next couple of years but once that’s done we’re wanting to find somewhere to “stay put” if that makes sense.

*one of the areas, but they all have similar themes.

Yes, finding suitable rental property can be an arse – we’re 200 miles / 5 hours / 2 ferry crossings from our new house build. In Scotland, landlords have to let prospective tenants view a property before they can rent – back in the spring in lockdown, some agents has 200 people waiting to view. Lots of English people moving north as well.

with the kids at the ages they are moving them now will not be too traumatic. My family moved to scotland when I was of a similar age

I live on Kinnoull Hill. We moved here from near Dunkeld 3 years ago. For a number of reasons.
1. It’s the nicest area of central ish Perth. I can walk into the centre in 20 mins.
2. The schools are great. Kinnoull Primary is superb and Perth High School is as good as any of the secondaries in the area.
3. Easy access to the road and rail network and central. I work across Scotland so it’s a great location for me.
Our kids are teenagers, one of the reasons for moving was to allow them easier access to the city for social activities. Driving up and down the A9 or up and down to Blair, soon gets old – even with the bypass.
Oh and you can be at Nine Wells in 25 mins.
PM me if you want any local info or pointers.

Oh and I’m English by birth, but I’ve lived up here all my working life and prefer to consider myself more Scottish now.

Good move Blitz.
I’m very local, been here over 30 years and live just to the north, near Glamis. My first suggestion, written this morning in haste is to suggest looking around Blairgowrie- Alyth to live; Kirriemuir is another possibility but slightly less convenient. By Kent standards, commuting is a breeze, with Alyth to Ninewells taking about 25-30 minutes in a car and well within cycle commute range at about 15 miles. Coupar Angus is cheap but for a reason; the chicken factory on the west side of town smells a bit, although many folk don’t find it a problem! Anywhere else in an arc from Alyth to Blairgowrie and south all the way to Errol via Abernyte, Fowlis etc will be lovely places to live. There are loads of little communities and proper small villages; new housing being built in Newtyle and Meigle in mini-developments of a dozen-20 houses, 3-4 beds might be worth considering. Newtyle primary has a good rep and the bigger kids go to Monifeith, as per above comment. I’ve MTB pals who are teachers & parents locally too if you want more detail.
Riding wise, you’ve got everything you could want nearby, plus mountain/ snowsports, watersports… blah. You probably know this part already.
Happy to help in any practical way you might need; PM me.

Lots of English people moving north as well.

Yep, which is one of the main causes of Tomd’s comment about the lack properties (like folk moaning about traffic when they’re in a car!).

House prices around here have went mental, one of my bike buddies is a brickie and theyre selling houses faster than ever.

House round the clock need has just sold for 30k higher than similar properties pre covid.

OP

Everything on the old thread still stands.Read Shackleton’s posts again,it’s a big town/small city with a great location,which makes it very manageable. I would add, the Perth-Dundee A90 can be a shitty commute, at times full of tailgating, lane hogging A holes and dodgy junctions.Broughty into town can be another bottleneck where you can get a wee bit rushhour gridlock. I moved from London 20 years ago and have no regrets,and with everything going on this year it has highlighted even more(for me), what a good,safe place it is to live.

Hi OP,

We moved up here 8 years ago. We both work at the Uni (but I’m based at the JHI just south of ninewells) and live just to the west of Dundee in liff. Happy to chat on phone or email if you have questions, just PM me. We know a fair few folk who work at ninewells if you need specific questions answered.

Cheers,

S

Dundee and Perth sound fine. Whatever you do, don’t move west. The constant rain really gets you down. I’m in south west Scotland and am heading back down south as soon as I can because I can’t stand the weather any longer.

https://www.ogilviehomes.co.uk/location/the-heathers-newtyle/
https://www.hadden.co.uk/hadden-homes/developments/development/17

Both under construction now, so give a good indication of what you get for a given amount of money.
Public transport into town is by a main bus route that also connects the opposite way on a long arc with Alyth & Blairgowrie and all the way to Perth. Newtyle and Meigle have easy car/bike commuting to Ninewells hospital. A good chunk of the bike route can be done off-road too or alternatively increased significantly to include Sidlaws trail options or Lundie trails.
You’d pass supermarkets on the commute. Both villages have proper wee shops; Newtyle has one of the best traditional butchers in Scotland. Meigle is in the Perth & Kinross council area ( -> Blairgowrie High?) while Newtyle is in Angus, hence using Monifeith for secondary education.

It’s a beautiful morning up here; wee bit of mist down on the Strath, frosty with all the hills visible above in very clear air. A few clouds covering the highest tops up the Glens where there was a dusting of snow visible yesterday. I’ll be out on the local woodland trails later on.

We moved from Sheffield to Loch Tay nearly 12 years ago. Since then we moved to Dunblane. Arriving in Scotland:
Leaving Sheffield by Matt Robinson[/url], on Flickr

The downsides of being up here:
– we are a long way from family. Basically get used to a couple of times a year having to head south. Don’t expect family to come up. It is a time and financial cost, but you just have to do it.
– the weather can be sh*te and it does get dark in the winter. Buy a good coat and just get on with it.
– depending on how rural you are there are some challenges – fewer jobs, fewer houses, lots of driving to get around, slow broadband, small communities (which can be simultaneously the best and worst at the same time) and further for kids to travel to school / clubs / swimming etc.
– like anywhere in the world there are the usual life and social challenges – your problems don’t stay behind when you move.

However, we regret none of it. We had a fabulous 5 years in Killin, now here for heading on 7 years.

My kids have benefitted from a different, excellent education system. They have thrived in a way I am not sure all of them would have under the English system. We now live in a place that is safe, green, welcoming and feels really good to be a part of – I’ve gone from being wary when I walk at night and multiple thefts and break-ins to allowing my kids to walk home safely at 10pm at night and never think twice about crime. We can afford housing, even in a relatively expensive part of Scotland, and overlook greenspace and a mountain (just!). We have landed a couple of good jobs, and my lads are also finding employment alongside college and university.

The community is brilliant and it is easy to find like minded outdoory families and friends. LD of this parish reached out to us early on in our move, we met a stranger ‘from the internet’ and have since been on all sorts of paddling and pedalling adventures. Scotland overall is a ‘small place’ and it is amazing who knows who or is related etc. It is important to know this, particularly in my line of work where everyone seems to know everyone!

We spend our weekends climbing mountains, riding great trails, paddling lochs and having day trips out to some bonkers beautiful places. Even the ‘local neighbourhood’ is packed with places and spaces that are beautiful and quiet. The kids have had adventures weekly that we would have had once or twice a year for holiday. From just north of Central Belt we can literally do day trips to Mull or Arran, Glencoe or Cairngorms are an hour and a half, so may rivers, lochs and beaches.

This for me has been the real benefit – the lifestyle we and the kids enjoy and the impact it has had on them. I have three boys that love outdoors, nature and adventures. I think they are ‘hooked for life’ on bikes, hills and boats.

If you have the chance, IMO, grab it with both hands.

I am sure others can advise on where to live more around Perth.

Aonach Eagach by Matt Robinson[/url], on Flickr

I work in perth and regularly travel to dundee/aberdeen and Inverness/Glasgow/Edinburgh. I’m a coach driver)
Perthshire is a pretty nice part of the world tbh, you’re close enough to whatever you want to do, whether that’s highland wilderness, or big city entertainment.

I would add, the Perth-Dundee A90 can be a shitty commute, at times full of tailgating, lane hogging A holes and dodgy junctions.

It’s really not that bad IME. However my view might be skewed by commuting to Edinburgh, Glasgow, Stirling, Rosyth etc.

Mini oab doesn’t look too chuffed in that first pic!

Re the kids, no direct experience of moving, but my daughter moved from primary to secondary in Sep. A lot of her friends go to the same secondary but different classes. She’s made lots of new friends with no problem and some of her old friends she only sees occasionally but is not overly concerned.

Lucky buggers. I live on the Sussex coast /SDW and the inlaws live in Broughty Ferry, and lots of extended family are there too. We’ve visited many times the last 25 years and I’d move there in a flash.

Weirdly it’s the wife that wont move, although all her family is up there and were about to be empty nesters. Weather and loss of local friends are her reasons.

A90, if you’re used to the traffic in south east england, will seem absolutely fine.
You do, strangely, get a fair bit of lane hogging though. (Particularly between perth and dundee)
If possible, avoid Broxden roundabout on a Friday afternoon.(busy)
But traffic generally, is fine.

tjagain
Full Member
with the kids at the ages they are moving them now will not be too traumatic. My family moved to scotland when I was of a similar age

We can all see it had no impact on you…….. 😉

Where to start with schools?

The thing to realise about Scottish Schools is that entry is predominantly based on where you live rather than some of the weird battles to get them into a good school that happen in at least some parts of England. This is mostly a good thing – if you live in the catchment area for that school, then unless it’s literally got no space you will get a place. You can apply (a “Placing Request”) to go to a non-catchment area school. That will be considered but is not certain to succeed. Its very likely to be rejected if you are crossing local authority boundaries (e.g. you live in Dundee and want to send kid to school in Angus, Fife, Perthshire etc); if it’s within the same authority it will be about space.

Every pupil has the option to go to a non-denominational state school or a catholic faith state school. I could rant for hours about why Scotland needs to move on from this sectarian nonsense, but it does mean you have a fall back option if the default school is really bad. Priority at the Catholic Schools is given to those who genuinely are catholic, but as far as I know outside the West of Scotland most Catholic schools are undersubscribed and will have space.

The reality is there are very few dreadful schools in Scotland. The best schools have an association with the more expensive house prices/nicer areas. Like a few others, I’d be a bit wary about moving with two kids to Blairgowrie direction. There’s a smaller pool of people for the kids to fit in with, they will be scattered around over quite a big area and you’ll end up as Dad’s taxi. As they get older they’ll want to go into Dundee/Perth etc more and you’ll do even more taxiing.

In terms of transitioning its a good point to make that Scottish schools stop end of June and go back in usually mid August. If it were me, I’d look to get an Air BnB / Holiday cottage on a longish term let for April/May/June and perhaps fly up (I think Logan air are still flying London-Dundee), whilst you sell the house and find a new one. I may be wrong but I think some holiday rentals would be quite keen on this as its certainty of income in uncertain times, no changeovers/cleaning/covid hassle, and outside the real peak period. Certainly round here that’s what people do when insurers are sorting houses after floods/fire or during big building projects.

with the kids at the ages they are moving them now will not be too traumatic. My family moved to scotland when I was of a similar age

Don’t worry I’m sure it wasn’t the move that made him the way he is!

Mini oab doesn’t look too chuffed in that first pic!

He spent a couple of months asking when we were going home to Sheffield….

The thing to realise about Scottish Schools is that entry is predominantly based on where you live rather than some of the weird battles to get them into a good school that happen in at least some parts of England.

The reality is there are very few dreadful schools in Scotland. The best schools have an association with the more expensive house prices/nicer areas.

^ absolutely this.

It is a mix of rurality & small towns (even Scottish cities are quite small) and a cultural thing. It does mean you put thought into where to live, the upside is that your kids get to walk to school perhaps and you end up working with a school through issues or challenges, less of the ‘customer expects’ feel I often pick up in England….
I of course say that from the luxurious position of having had three lads attend the ‘top’ secondary in Scotland by results and one having won Dux medal for the highest achieving student….

Grew up in Perth and the surrounding areas, it’s nice, but over the last 20 years it’s been overtaken by Dundee in many ways, still a great place to live, but you’ll not suffer any issues being closer to Dundee either.

As others say, Kinoull Hill is the premium area in Perth, but the prices will be high, if you want to be close to town then the Western Edge of Perth is where most of the houses have gone, it’s right on the Broxden roundabout and the M/A90 route, so commute wise to Dundee, it’s fine, you also have Bridge of Earn which is close to the M90, so again, simple enough commute.

The bit between Perth and Dundee is a little boring though, know loads of folk who live in Glencarse, Errol, Inchture, etc, but always seen that area as flat and boring, but they are nice enough areas as well, and again catchment wise they’ll be Perth High or Academy. A bit higher and you have Coupar Angus and the likes, nice areas again, loads to do up there, a lot of family live in that area (farmers), not sure what house prices are like up there though, they are all nice villages though, Blairgowrie is lovely, only issue will be the roads for commuting, especially over winter!

Grew up in Perth and the surrounding areas, it’s nice, but over the last 20 years it’s been overtaken by Dundee in many ways, still a great place to live, but you’ll not suffer any issues being closer to Dundee either.

As others say, Kinoull Hill is the premium area in Perth, but the prices will be high, if you want to be close to town then the Western Edge of Perth is where most of the houses have gone, it’s right on the Broxden roundabout and the M/A90 route, so commute wise to Dundee, it’s fine, you also have Bridge of Earn which is close to the M90, so again, simple enough commute.

The bit between Perth and Dundee is a little boring though, know loads of folk who live in Glencarse, Errol, Inchture, etc, but always seen that area as flat and boring, but they are nice enough areas as well, and again catchment wise they’ll be Perth High or Academy. A bit higher and you have Coupar Angus and the likes, nice areas again, loads to do up there, a lot of family live in that area (farmers), not sure what house prices are like up there though, they are all nice villages though, Blairgowrie is lovely, only issue will be the roads for commuting, especially over winter!

School wise, secondary schools in Perth are pretty simple, four secondaries, with the Academy being the premium one back in my time, High School a bit run down in terms of amenities, St John’s for catholic children and the Grammar for the dodgy folk ;o)

Primary schools is just where you move really, all decent enough, some newer ones and so on, but Perth did a big shift from older style buildings to building joint primaries with more modern structures.

Moving from Kent a couple of points: House values are such that you really should have a pretty good choice and the commutes can be very different giving the opportunity for a much lessor / bicycle commute

Hi all.

Fantastic responses. Really appreciate the input. I’m at work but nipping in here and reading when I can! Will reply in more detail later but thanks again.

Schooling up here isn’t the issue that seems to exist in the south, I don’t know anyone who moved to an area because of the school they’d attend, school is kinda much of a muchness, aye some are better than others, but if the kids work hard they’ll achieve.

The 2 schools at the more exclusive end of town where I live have no better results than the others in the area.

Edinburgh is different, but then they always are….;-)

We’ve been in the Carse of Gowrie since 2013 – my wife works at Ninewells and I work in Perth. We bought a house in Inchture after renting for a couple of years near Errol.

Pros:
– loads of open space
– nice views of the hills, including across the Tay to Fife
– v easy to get around by car
– primary schools all pretty good
– superb road & gravel biking from the door
– not far to drive for decent MTB (but not great MTB from the door)
– Dundee & Perth both fairly easy to get into with minimal traffic (perhaps 10-15min delay max at peak times)

The main con of the area from my perspective is how reliant on cars we have to be here. Public transport is OK but not great, and most of the fun family activities require a car journey. It’s far from a deal breaker, but certainly worth bearing in mind. It’s a similar story for most of the area around Blairgowrie as well. There’s better access to amenities in places like Broughty Ferry, Newport or some of the villages North of Dundee.

I like living here far more than I thought I would, having previously been in Inverness then New Zealand.

If you want to know a bit about the Perth secondary schools, I’ll happily give my 2p over DM.

Thanks again for all the advice above. It has been reassuring and made us feel more confident that we’re making the right decision. My wife accepted the job offer earlier so this is happening. We may well take up those specific offers of advice from the locals as things move on so thanks again for those kind gestures.

With the places to live there’s some really good thoughts above and particularly about thinking ahead to the girls getting more independent. Of all the places we saw, the Kinoull Hill area of Perth had a lot attractions as mentioned by oldtennisshoes so that seems a solid option. Similarly we liked the feel of the bits to the north of the A90 between Perth and Dundee as mentioned by Highlandman. The villages to the south of the A90 seemed nice too, but I did keep looking over to the hills on the other side of the A90 and thinking I’d probably want to be that side.

Dundee/Broughty Ferry/Monifeith are of course options and we’d definitely keep an open mind to that. We went to the beach at Broughty Ferry on a brisk but sunny Sunday morning and it was lovely with swimmers out in the water, dog walkers, joggers etc. Had a real active and outdoorsy feel that really appealed.

Great advice about the schools and the earlier end to the school year was something we hadn’t considered and this might help us out as mentioned. It’s good to know that generally the standard is pretty consistent as this is probably the major worry we have. I think if the girls settle and thrive that will go a long way to defining the success of the move. Here in Kent we still have the Grammar system and my eldest would be doing the entry test next year if we stayed. If she were to pass then all good as you get almost private school standards without the fees, but if not, then it’s not great. I’d rather they just went to a good school without all the stress and hassle! Luckily they are both naturally pretty outgoing and confident so I’m hopeful they’ll adjust quick enough.

Good shouts on considering air bnb for the interim gap. Hadn’t thought of that so will explore the options there.

Matt OAB – love your post and the pics and your experience is exactly what we’re hoping for. We would love to spend weekends exploring all that Scotland has to offer which would be something we could only do otherwise once in a blue moon.

I’ll update as things move on but again, really appreciate the advice and help.

Best of luck mate.

FWIW, it’s called Broughty Ferry Actually.

(as in – “Are you from Dundee?”, “No. I’m from Broughty Ferry Actually”)

I don’t know much about the areas you’re thinking of, but we moved from Nottingham to Lochaber 14 years ago, and have not once regretted it.

Matt OAB – love your post and the pics and your experience is exactly what we’re hoping for. We would love to spend weekends exploring all that Scotland has to offer which would be something we could only do otherwise once in a blue moon.

In which case you are sorted – you have a job, sounds like you can find another one, can afford houses and the area you are looking at is a good one.
You will be but a stones throw/short drive to amazing places and spaces.

Matt, steady on! Shh.. Don’t tell everyone, they’ll all want to move up here.

We’ve been in Blairgowrie for 17 years now – I’m from Kent (via Herts and London) and my wife’s from Brighton (via Milton Keynes), although we had a few years in Kendal on our way here. My wife was at Ninewells until she retired a couple of years ago, but I’ve a few more years to go – hopefully working in Perth if the co survives Covid. Every now and then we think about moving – I’d like to be a bit nearer Perth, but we can’t think of anywhere with a better mix of road and off road rides, dog walking, skiing and reasonable access to Edinburgh, Glasgow, places North. Between here and Ninewells, flooded roads caused more issues than snow – we’ve only really had trouble getting to Perth/Dundee for work on about 5-6 occasions between us.

Someone above has mentioned Newport, but my view is that relying on the Tay Bridge would be a mistake – at the end of a long shift, the diversion could be very tiresome. Nothing against the area, and if the commute were any other direction, not an issue. Of course that may be a price worth paying – and I don’t really know how often the bridge closes.

As many say, there’s so many nice areas around, growing up there i used to ride the route from Perth to Dundee often, lovely trip and loads of stuff around, same with Kinoull Hill, the staple place for MTB in the Perth area, but for all the lovely areas, i’m guessing the kids will drive where you finally end up, i do always think about moving back for family and friends, but no real work for me up there, good luck with wherever you end up, not sure if it’s the same nightmare, but be prepared for the scottish house buying system!