Hello.
Yes, I know this will lead to sweeping generalisations and plenty of ‘it depends’ but going to ask anyway.
Which big van has the best reputation for reliabilty? Toying with the idea of replacing my elderly SWB Transit with something larger. It has been very good but is basically a colletion of excellent mechanical components in a very rusty box.
So which big van is best? Camper conversion pending if that makes any difference.
Do Mk7 Transits rust less than Mk6s? Maybe a MWB Hi top would suit.
Sprinter/Crafter in MWB flavor. Ducato/Relay/Boxxer is an option, they seem cheapest, Movano/Traffic/NV400 maybe. The ones which all seem to have mega miles on them, 3-400k is ‘normal’ is the Iveco Daily, a MWB one of those would be big enough. Are they nce to drive compared to the others? These mileages indicate that they last well.
My budget would get me any of the above 2007/8 with 80k miles or 2013/14 with 160k miles and all points in between. Which way would you go on the age/mileage balance? With Transits I would take newer with more miles as the rust won’t have set in quite so badly on a newer one, what about the others?
Ex-fleet vans a good idea? Maintenance shcedules likely to be followed quite strictly by big companies as they can afford it or avoid as people tend to rag them silly if it’s not their own van they’re driving? Current one was ex-BT and has been fine, was 8yrs old and 79k when I got it, now 15yrs and 130k, hoping to get ten years out of whatever I get next, conversion work is a lot of time and effort I don’t want to do too often.
Thanks

I’ve been running a 2007 MK7 LWB Transit for 5 years, 100k miles.

It’s slathered in waxoyl but will still rust at any opportunity, mechanically its been fine.
The mk7 is basically the same as a Mk6 apart from the engine, dash and headlights/front end.

We have a 11 plate Fiat Ducato at work that was dented in the first week-it still hasn’t rusted. The Iveco engine is good, the load area is wider and more square than the rest.

I have a. MK3 Iveco camper.

Compared to other things its age…..it’s very agricultural/rough to drive….but that’s a good thing in my eyes less to go wrong and Carey’s it’s weight well….means when the alternator gave up the other week driving home wasn’t an issue as only the stop solenoid was drawing <1amp from the battery.

If I was buying new or buying a van to self build – id buy a ducato purely because of the vertical sides in the rear.

Couldn’t pay me to buy a transit.

Would have a boxer/relay/nv400(dad has one of these….other than a soft clutch pedal it’s good to drive)

Like you say, youre about to be bombarded with everyone recommending what they have/think is best.

My opinion is for a camper build, that is going to take a lot of time and cost a lot of additional money, buying the best/newest base van you can is key. For me that was a Peugeot Boxer. They are galvanised – so no rust to worry about, the sides are very straight and it’s also wide so fit out options are good, they’re pretty cheap compared to others. The build quality isn’t quite up to other vans, but better than others. last reason, they’re bloody everywhere in Europe! so parts are easy to source, plus nearly every camper conversion company uses them so lots of after market camper parts are designed to fit them.

Well said blazing saddles….and all good reasons not to buy a transit. )

Movano/Traffic/NV400 maybe. The ones which all seem to have mega miles on them, 3-400k

In a break from tradition, i’ll recommend something I don’t have! I do have a renault trafic (it’s the same as a vivario and primastar – not the same as a Movano) – although I love our camper (self conversion) in no way would I recommend it. It is a pig to work on so all the bills are quite large – also has problems with the injectors. Mine has probably cost me 3.5k in the last couple of years (three of new clutches and a mystery oil leak that took ages to sort (and took clutches with it)).

The one thing i would say for the trafic is that you should definitely get a galvanized van – this is why they don’t rust. Off the top of my head, I don’t get a transit or sprinter as they’re not galvanized – i think the newer Vitos are, trafic etc certainly are, I think the master is as well. Plus the ducato family.

At some point i’ll convert a new van – i’ll get whatever Ducato / boxer / relay I can get cheapest. Probably the ducato with the euro 6 engine that doesn’t need the adblu (i think…). Definitely worth talking to a dealer, you can get them for almost 50% off list at the moment (according to the self build motorhome forum i’m on).

(according to the self build motorhome forum i’m on).

What forum is that please?

Someone I went to school with converted and lives in an old mercedes Asda delivery van. It’s had a few issues but should be easier to work on being a ladder chassis over a panel van

Also interested.

I’ve been looking at vans for a while with the idea of building a camper van, and haven’t got a clue what to buy. So in terms of rust,

Vauxhall Vivaro 2001 – 2014
Citroen Relay 2006 –
Fiat Ducato 2006 –
Peugeot Boxer 2006 –
Vauxhall Movano 2010 –

Am I right thinking these vans don’t rust? Have been looking at Mercedes Sprinters (2006 – 2013)/ VW Crafters (2006 – 2017) and they seem to rust really badly.

From a builders point of view…
Ive owned all of the common vans, 1 Renault traffic with serious cylinder head troubles, write off, 2 x transporters 1 had gearbox and driveshaft problems, 1 caught itself on fire all on its on accord write off, a Mercedes Vito massive head gasket and cracked block write off, 2 transits… One 2006 with 180k no problems, current van a 2012 transit custom one of the first made, 80k no problems at all. It does go through pads and disc every 20k
But they just work and work and work with no dramas
I did actually own an old Iveco daily many years ago, massive van but was a horrible drive.

Buy a transit and ignore all the people.who say they are crap.

I drive a transit for work. I think it’s a great van. I drive a SWB Transporter as my own. My next personal van will probably be a Boxxer. Good easy shape to work with and loads in Europe where I want to go and work. Hopefully.

Boxer/Relay/Ducato from 2006 are definitely galvanised.

When searching for a used one, I saw lots of completely shagged out vans, but none were rusty.
There seems to be a bit of a debate about when other vans became galvanised with Mercedes being particularly cagey about which bits were galvanised when.

Looking at the engines, I would say the Boxer/Relay/Ducato were also a good bet reliability-wise. Engines are either Transit or Iveco depending on make/model/power. Mine is a timing Chain rather than a belt, but I’ve been advised it might still be worth changing (mine is 114k miles).

I found it quite interesting looking through all the MOT history of hundreds of vans when I was looking – finding common things. Nothing particularly alarming, but the clutch/Gearbox seem the quickest things to go with them, so if you’re buying make sure it goes cleanly between the gears. I test drove a new one to check how it should be.

Self build motorhome forum:
https://sbmcc.co.uk/

Costs 15 quid a year, but incredibly useful. Made my build a lot easier!

I went round one of our local Van Centres a while back looking at the proper campers, and a few of their in-house panel van conversions.
for both their van of choice appears to be the Fiat Ducato which I think is a shared Chassis/drivetrain with Peugeot/Citroen vans isn’t it?

My own thought is that reliability is half of the consideration, and that picking something ‘common’ makes the most sense. Depending on how long you keep it/how many miles you cover a year, eventually something will need replacing/fixing and the more common your van the better the chances of finding parts down the line should be…

If doing a conversion, definitely do a ducato – it’s what the pros use for motor home conversions. As a result you can get lots of handy bits and pieces easily – e.g. water tanks that fit round the various protrusions on the van underfloor. If you buy it new you can also spec the motorhome autobox and various other bits that’ll make it ideal for conversion.

transits may be good workhorses within the lease period (my dads business – also a builder had several of them – each of them looked like they had been rat rodded by the end of the lease)

AS a vehicle for a camper conversion – there isnt much worse. Welding is a pain in the arse on a virgin van – it becomes very quickly unattainable on a converted camper.

I have just recently converted a citroen relay 2014. went for an 80000 miler as there should still be at least 40000 usable miles (probably only do 3000 per yer) Being that it could be long term I chose this as it has the galvy body I was warned off the Transit by the salesman (neighbour) owing to rust, same goes for the Mercs and the VWs are just too dear. The relay and ducatos can also take a bed widthways (DVLA requires 1800mm long minimum).Also went for an H2 (mid height as I can stand up in this)

The only problem with the Boxer/Relay/Ducato is that everyone and his dog is buy one to convert so prices are high and cheap single passenger seats have become the stuff of legend.

Ducato/relay/Boxer vans are not expensive…

You can buy new L3H2 Enterprise models for £13k plus Vat.

Loads of warranty and we run a fleet of 30 of them and they’ve all been very reliable.

I got a drivers seat for £50 including base from scrappy. Welded a couple of plates to base and installed the seat belt. Only thing is it has an opposite hand arm rest, I also got it recovered by a vehicle upholsterer using the bench fabric (£200) so still about half of what Ebay want (You also could have went cheaper and bought seat covers).

Hello sgsin.
Thanks for the input everyone, some intereting food for thought there.
Didn’t expect the consensus on ‘most reliable’ to be buy Italian or French and avoid ze Germans…
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Unfortunately this has become pertinent than I was hoping. Was mulling over the idea of replacing my van towards the end of the year but it has now just failed it’s MOT and needs £1500+ of welding! So, new van time. This also unfortunately means I no longer have a working van to sell so budget is going to be less, £3k probably, going to be interesting finding a solid base for that, although I only paid £2300 for my current Transit and got seven years out of it.
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So, if I do go Ducato/Relay/Boxer which is the engine to go for and is that relaistic on my budget? Alexsimon has said they are Transit/Iveco engines, been very happy with my Transit mechanically so would like to go for one of those, just this cursed rust to avoid.
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No-one seems to like driving Ivecos, one to avoid then? And barely a mention of Masters/Movanos, they any good?
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Off to facebook/ebay/vantrader then looking for Ducatos. Hours of fun to be had. Second hand van salesmen are far, far worse than used car salesman.
Anyone near Edinburgh selling anything interesting? Or is a very cheap welder?

I prefer the 3ltr manual Ducati if you can find one. Ambulance service use them n bought more off the back of them. If an ambulance can do 250k I’m happy with a high mileage 140k motorhome

Own money it would be….
Ducato or boxxer
sprinter
Nissan Renault thing

Fiat Ducato is Iveco engine, Peugeot and Citroen boxxer/relay is PSA engine (transit tdci).

Have a look at welfare vans – they haven’t been couriered to death and come with eberspachers/wash basin/brewing earn etc and can be cheaper than normal vans. They tend to be either transits or sprinters though.
Our Transit was a welfare van and has been reliable.

Yes, been looking at welfare vans, heater and electrics being already in is quite appealing, but as yo say most are Transits, Sprinters/Crafter seeem next most common, only a couple of Relays and they are fairly new so fairly pricey.
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Suplementary question, I only have a class B car licence so am limited to 3.5 tons, plenty big enough. However, a vauge memory at the back of my mind tells me I can only drive single wheels too, no double rear wheel stuff, is that right? Google is rather vauge on the matter.

3.5 can be double wheeled but they have less load capacity as the vehicle is heavier

Not all twins are 3.5 not all twins that are not 3.5 can be down rated.

And anything big twin and 3.5 has a load capacity of a rizla.

Ducato is meant to have the better engine. Harder to find ones with air con etc though, as there doesn’t seem to be a specific higher spec model like the Boxer Professional or Relay Enterprise.

I looked at MOT stats and for some reason the Relay is significantly worse than that other two for MOT pass rates.

As somebody who deals with pretty much every make of van regularly, what suits you will depend on what you want it for.

Modern Transits are galvanised, and Ford have put a lot of effort into making sure the latest ones are pretty reliable. Certainly it’s onw of the most popular vans we see, but there’s not really been any major recurring problems with them, other than power steering pipes corroding on early ones. Although be aware the 2.0 ecoblue engine now has a wet timing belt that needs changed at 150k/10years, and involves quite a bit of labour (around 8hr IIRC).

Fiat Ducatos are cheap to buy, but that is where the cheapness ends. They use Fiat engines, which are quite agricultural and reliable, but some have timing belts that need changed quite reguarly. Gearboxes in them are rubbish, and will regularly destroy bearings. Electrics are temperamental.

Peugeot Jumper/Citreon Relay is just a Ducato with a Ford Transit engine.

Renault Masters/Vauxhall Movanos are the same van. Generally more reliable than Ducatos up to a certain age, then electrical issues will creep in, as is typical for French vehicles.

Merc Sprinter although not indestructible, will run forever if you don’t do anything stupid with them. They will rust visually, as they’re not as well protected as other makes.

VW Crafter is a sprinter, but with a rubbish VW engine.

Iveco daily’s are very agricultural. Build quality similar to Fiats/PSA/Renault, but nobody really buys them for standard vans. Only ones we see are cherrypickers, and the chassis generally collapses onto the propshaft at about 10 year old, having had numerous suspension rebuilds, and endless brake problems. Due to them still having a separate chassis, their payload isn’t as good as other similar sized vans.

As for what to get. The reason campers are based on Ducatos, is they’re dirt cheap to buy. Pretty much all manufacturers have options that make their vans more suited for motorhome conversions, so that’s not why people buy Ducatos. They buy them because they’re cheap, and they don’t know any better.
An equivalent Merc chassis would cost you a minimum of £12k extra, however in ten years time you’ll still get all the parts for the Merc, whereas as PSA/Fiat are horrendous at supplying parts for new vans, let alone something 10 year old. And the Merc won’t fell like something is about to fall off every time you hit a pothole.

We regularly have Fiats stuck of the road for a couple weeks under warranty because parts are on backorder, and parts supply doesn’t get any better as they age. We’ve also had older Peugoets of the road for over a month, as parts weren’t available (I think the record was 2 months for a door latch, which is hardly an uncommon part). The French and Italians are not really that bothered if parts are not available, and all you’ll likely get is a shrug of the shoulders if you’re vehicle is stuck waiting for parts.
Renault/Vauxhall are better, as they put a bit more effort into commercial sales, so understand the importance of parts availability, but they’re not as good as Ford or Merc.

As for the OPs budget, I’d say whatever you can get that seems reasonable for the money. You’re not going to have that great a selection at £3k, so it’ll be a case of whatever seems the least worse, and hope it’s not going to give you any major problems.
If you’re not too worried about looks, there are plenty ducatos/masters about with damaged sides that will be better value for money, than something pristine less damaged but worse mechanically.

I have had 2 T4s, and 2003 Peugeot Boxer, and now a Mercedes Vito (XLWB). Of these, the Boxer is the closest to what you are talking about, and I have to say that mine was an absolute brick. The bodywork suffered massively, but everything else was brilliant, and in the five years we owned it, and drove it all over Europe and the UK, it needed not a single mechanical thing done to it.

Niggly bits around the body and electrics? Yes. But mechanically brilliant.

If I was in the market for something as big again, I would look at a Boxer.

Thanks guys. Still hunting. As you say, at the budget the choice isn’t great, but in a massive stroke of good timing got a pay rise today. Well, from new tax year next month, so budget might be £4k but hoping to keep it less.
At that price is does seem to be mainly Transits though, 2010-11, 110-120k seem to be about £3k. Ducatos starting to appear at that price but usually bigger miles.

Modern Transits are galvanised

Do you mean Mk8s or did they improve the build quality, if not the design, between a Mk6 and a Mk7? Would be very happy with a galvanised Mk7!
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Also, which are chain and which are timing belts? Just wondering if I need to factor £3-400 into the purchase for a change.
Not fussed about cosmetics/bodywork, but must have a solid rust free chassis and no engine or gearbox gremlins. Seeing all kinds of weird adverts (‘Drives superbly, pulls like train, excellent condition but fifth gear doesn’t’ work being my favourite so far)

Whatever the current version of transit is. On the ford system they’re just Transit 2016’s, which I’m guessing makes them a Mk8. Everything prior to them and Customs, will rust.

Everything up to the 2.0 ecoblue are chains, but they’ll usually need done about the same mileage anyway. If you do need a chain done, make sure genuine parts are fitted, or at least not the garbage from Euro Crap Parts. We done a big recall for a customer as they’d had some original chains failing (Well they’d had engines fail, but I don’t think the timing chain was the real cause), and despite our tech support saying only fit OE, the bean counters decided they could save the customer money by using ECP kits. I think the shortest lived chain lasted 3’000 miles, although I did do one last month that had managed to last 2 1/2 years before the rattle being bad enough the driver though he should bring it in.

Getting one with a dodgy gearbox might be worthwhile. I’m not sure how much they charge for doing the entire job, but Strathclyde Gearboxes in Rutherglen are reasonable repairs, and they’ll stand by their work. We use them for all non-warranty work, and they’re fair to deal with. They’ll give you an estimate before hand. Although Ducato gearboxes can be pretty expensive depending on what exactly has failed. IIRC the last one I dealt with was about £1100, but that had some quite serious problems, as it made lots of noise while only attempting to move the van in a quite erratic manner!

I wouldn’t completely disregard the Daily, especially if you are restricted on budget as they are much cheaper than most other vans. Most vans drive like big cars, the Daily drives like a small truck so its sprung a bit harder and will crash about a bit on rough roads and its not going to be much fun if you want to rag it fast across roundabouts. However its a great cruiser on good roads and motorways, most models have plenty of power, and they are pretty reliable.

Don’t worry too much about mileage, but overall condition is important as there are very few privately owned vans, most will have been driven by employees so its common to see minor body damage, leaking doors etc. One of the vulnerable rust areas seems to be rear arches and the floor between them, so check/poke underneath if its plylined.

They are good as campers, especially if you want to put tanks underneath as there is oodles of space around the ladder chassis, you can almost sit upright once you are under the sill.

My current one has a foam tile floor under the floating ply floor, and a small amount of sound deadening on the panels, and its lovely and quiet.

Have a look at this bloke on Youtube. He’s done a transit conversion and I think he’s done a Peugeot Boxer/Fiat Ducato too.

With your budget I’d be looking at trying to find a well looked after older shape sprinter. Not all are rust buckets, they drive really well and will do mega miles.

There’s a lovely one on ebay Fizik, 53 reg with 50k miles, looks mint. It is however £6.5k plus VAT.
That youtube bloke is brilliant, so much info on how to hoover your van 🙂
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Serious question. Is it easy to convert a fridge van? They seem cheaper for a given age/mileage (or newer and shineier for a given budget if you at that way.) They are already insulated and lined. Would fit a window by just swapping the door, must be someone breaking a minibus somewhere. Any problems with them? Removing bulkhead between cab and rear perhaps, is that sort of sealed into the rear lining? How do you get wiring behind the lining without ruining everything? Off to google these things but wondering if anyone here has done it?

Saw one dude Doing a fridge van conversion.

He striped out the floor insulation to check the floor

He did lots of welding

There’s also a high chance of it having been a fish van.

I’ve filed then mentally under. “Cheap for a reason”

I didnt know about the Mk8 Transit being galv’d, that would be my preference although I know its out of the OPs budget.

A 2003 Sprinter for £6.5k? Just demonstrates how good value the Daily is…this link is the end of line special (Platinum model), pretty much the same as mine.

Silver, suspension seat, cruise control, climate (air-con) control, heated mirrors, Clarion double DIN stereo and reversing camera, cornering lights, its done plenty of miles but its 2014…11 years newer! £4.5k and if you are not bothered about the extra toys and the siver paint the standard spec models of the same age are under £4k.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Iveco-daily-mwb-platinum-35S13-6speed-sat-nav-reversing-Eco-2014-14reg/254154277781?hash=item3b2cc68395:g:HyYAAOSwp~VcgRFX

^ that was cheap, no wonder its sold