I’m not missing the point at all and agree with your comments re: bringing basic living costs down. I simply disagree with some of your other thinking. We have a culture of under valuing those that actually do the work in a lot of jobs. There are also people on vastly inflated wages in a lot of sectors and putting shareholders above all. It’s a shitty system.

I still don’t have savings or relatives to support me and would be up shit creek quite rapidly if I lost my job. That’s earning a good wage. Some of the posts in this thread have a slight air of entitlement and a lack of empathy about them. Plenty of business do well, in fact thrive, by paying fair wages above the minimum. It works

The whole reason for the Government introducing the Minimum wage as to move the balance to the Employer rather than the state.

Wages + benefits have broadly been the same in total across the years, its just as the wages have become a bigger % of the total number.

There is a lot of wage compression going on, where you may only get 2% or NLW. Seeing it a lot in the industry I work in where people are wondering if its worth 10p an extra an hour for all of the extra responsibility above an entry level role.

Unfortunately you have to vote with your feet an move into other companies for wage progression.

I’d be interested to know how many on here have worked for minimum wage or less whilst trying to support a family

I have absolutely no idea how that is even possible….

I love this way of thinking. If everyone did as you suggest how would you ever receive your Amazon parcels and go grocery shopping. If those some deem to be deserving of being paid a pittance pulled themselves up you’d be ****. No cleaning being done, no cheap goods being delivered at the drop of a hat. They don’t seem so deserving of low pay when you stop and think about it.

Not everyone can be an astronaut, that’s the world we’ve always lived in, but those who can pull themselves up, should put the effort in, not expect the government to do it on their behalf. We live in a country where you can still change jobs relatively easily, if you have the drive to do so.

As for minimum wage, it’s there to stop those who preyed on the lower end of the market in the past, there’s still lots of dodgy stuff going on, but not as bad as it was.

Some of the posts in this thread have a slight air of entitlement and a lack of empathy about them. Plenty of business do well, in fact thrive, by paying fair wages above the minimum. It works

Equally, the view could be considered that as a lower earner, just because you are a lower earner you are ‘entitled’ to a bigger increase.

We have plenty of lower earners in our business, who are often described as the plodders. They come in, do a job, to a level that just about keeps them off a PIP & go home. The ones who over achieve, tend to move up the ranks & earn more, and get better pay reviews.

We’re not going to devalue the over-achievers efforts, for the same reason we shouldn’t over value the others.

For reference, I say lower earners, our lowest paid basic factory worker & pickers/packers are on £15.50 an hour.

The ones who over achieve, tend to move up the ranks & earn more, and get better pay reviews.

Conversely I’ve worked in a lot of places that are the polar opposite. The ones who coast get promoted regardless of their level of ability. Promoted to their level of incompetence one might say. Lots of folk at the lower end putting in the hours and graft. Incompetence and laziness don’t have a pay grade. There is also nothing wrong with doing your job, clocking off and going home. We’d be screwed without the reliable plodder.

It’s a bit of a chicken and egg scenario. Want people to work harder, better, smarter then pay them more. Complain that the quality of hires isn’t great, pay more. PIP’s are a ridiculous thing in 99% of companies in my opinion. You pull someone up for not doing a great job when you pay them the absolute minimum you can. Want to incentive them, reward them by fostering a good culture. Pay, benefits etc. we seem to have reached this weird point where some employers expect employees to give their all with no return beyond a basic wage. I’m very thankful that I’m no longer in that sort of environment.

Well I applied for something else today. Whilst the pay is no better, the hours have the potential to suit us better.

Interesting reading the differing views on ‘plodders’ above. My wife exists in an utterly different stratosphere to me professionally, but is of the opinion that without the people who turn up and do their jobs, day in day out, most companies would be in a lot of trouble. In bike terms, I’m sure the product people at Shimano love XTR and Dura, but without Cues, there’s no business. Maybe a bad analogy, but you know what I mean.

“ I’d happily take a pay cut if it meant people on lower wages where I work could get a bit more. Trouble is that everyone else at my level would need to too and that would never happen.”

Would you ? Really ? Or just an empty gesture because you know it won’t happen ?
If you are happy enough then pick a person who is struggling or a couple of people , and distribute what ever amount you are happy to take as a paycut to them. I’m sure they will be appreciative. Doesn’t need to be cash , could be food parcels , bus passes etc etc

“ but is of the opinion that without the people who turn up and do their jobs, day in day out, most companies would be in a lot of trouble”

100% . I know people who are marked down on their yearly appraisals because they have no ambition to better themselves. This costs them financially .
If I was going to employ people directly , they would be the ones I would headhunt as they are bloody good at what they do. And I would pay them properly too !

“Believe it or not there is a reason some people earn more than others and it’s not down to entitlement, privilege and luck in most cases.”

Yeah that’s not true tho is it. Who your parents are (i.e 100% luck) determines:

– your general upbringing
– your educational opportunities/ level
– whether you are subject to discrimination
– where you live
– the type of circles you move in / people you are exposed to

As a white middle class man, I’m intensly aware that no matter what effort I put in to my career I’m unlikely to be have been in the same position as I am if my parents werent a maths teacher and a physicist (and therefore spent a lot of time with me doing maths etc) , they didnt happen to live near London (giving me easy access to city jobs), provided a stable home environment, encouraged me and gave me a kick up the arse to get to university and study a stem course, and surrounded me with other professionals to act as role models.

Doubtless there are many examples of people have managed to succeed despite the obstacles put in their path, but at a population level the biggest factor is who your parents are. Aka luck.

Would you ? Really ? Or just an empty gesture because you know it won’t happen ?

Yeah I would and have done in previous jobs. Twice now I’ve fought for rises for those below me and forfeited my own as a result. Believe it or not were not all that self centred. I’ve been at the blunt end for most of my life and it’s not nice. I also work with charities and third sector businesses as part of my job and I’m heavily involved in fund raising for them.

I’d love to do more but as the sole earner in my family with two kids and a mortgage I’ve not got much spare. I’m not on that good of a salary but still better off than a hell of a lot of people.

Opportunity is the biggest factor in success, and a huge part of that is family.

My dad was the son of a ships stoker, brought up in a terrace in South Shields, the middle one of 9 kids. He was bright enough to go to grammar school but too poor to stay on after 16 and spent a couple of years in a factory before his national service gave him a chance to sign up, learn a trade and serve 22 years. Without that chance at grammar school, he says he would have ended up down a pit or in a shipyard with most of his brothers.

He and my mum then created an environment where I was able to do well at school and be the first to go to university (eventually). Unfortunately,  my parents are the classic “we did it so everyone who didn’t is a workshy skiver” Tories.

MrsSteve and I, as middle ranking public sector employees were able to support our kids in their interests, in and out of school, and eldest is about to graduate from Cambridge and has a graduate job with a big international lined up.

Governments/society need to be figuring out how to offer all kids/families the opportunity to develop their talents and achieve their potential, whether that’s academically or vocationally, and reward/tax people appropriately,  whether they are entrepreneurs or bin men. Opportunity will lead to productivity and growth.

That rambled. No idea what my point was.