I’m just listening to Alchemy Live and his guitar work is simply sublime. For me he is up there with Gilmour, Page, Clapton, Moore (RIP *sniff*) et al.

Thoughts?

Good technically but no soul. IMHO.

No soul? I’ve got to disagree there: His playing is as soulful as anyone. he may not play the blues all the time, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t play with soul.

As I say – IMHO. I prefer Gallagher, King, Green (in his pomp) et al. Saw Dire Straits in 1982 and they were a bit meh.

He’s certainly a very good guitar player however in the fingerstyle world where his main influences come from he’s nowhere near the likes of Chet Atkins, Richard Smith, Doyle Dykes or Tommy Emmanuel. Indeed he’s commented that when he’s played with those guys they took it easy on him.

Where he is/was world class is song writing especially in the 70’s and 80’s. He also can write a mean riff.

I’d also disagree that Page should be up there. Nothing special as a player (look his old live performances on YouTube where he’s generally very sloppy) but again he’s a good song and riff writer and in the end that’s what gets you noticed and remembered.

Agree on the song/riff writing. Just listening to the Local Hero track on the top movie tunes thread. One of my all time favourite films and partly down to the soundtrack.

I’d also disagree that Page should be up there. Nothing special as a player (look his old live performances on YouTube where he’s generally very sloppy) but again he’s a good song and riff writer and in the end that’s what gets you noticed and remembered.

To be honest, I agree with you. I only threw Page in there as I know a lot of people rate him.

On the comparison to other finger style players: You are probably right, but then again he didn’t play traditional finger style music, at least not with Dire Straits. That only really seemed to come to the fore after DS began to wind down (as far as I know), when he started doing duets with the likes of Chet Atkins.

I think if you took a general top 100 guitar players from rock n roll, rock and metal you’d have to say they’re all so technically competent they could mimic each others style if they really wanted to. It’s their own personality coming through that makes them unique.

I don’t really see much personality coming through in Knopfler, though he’s great technician.

I was a huge fan of Dire Straits for Sultans onwards and remember seeing them live in Edinburgh. I don’t think I’ve ever been more disappointed at a concert. The music was technically brilliant and was executed just like the recording – but maybe that was the problem. There was no “stage presence” at all and I’d have been as well sitting listening to the albums at home.

Edit – wot jimjam says

You’re up on me then as I’ve never seen them live. I’m just going by Alchemy live and I get loads of personality coming through his playing, but if it does’t get through to the audience then it’s irrelevant. The live version of Sultans of Swing on Alchemy is vastly superior to the studio version.

I love dire straits and when you first try to learn one of Mark knopflers songs on guitar it seems daunting as he doesn’t repeat stuff over and over like most guitarist. However as soon as you start you realise he only plays very small phrases and it becomes very easy to learn. So technically his style is not that difficult, musically I think he’s fantastic. Brothers in arms is full of feeling.

Have you noticed that the headband has got bigger and bigger over the years?
And his studio is just round the corner from my office.

Blimey, I just discovered he played with Brewer’s Droop for a while. No, no. He didn’t HAVE Brewer’s Droop whilst playing, that was the band he was in. I remember seeing them in Bridlington. “It ain’t the meat it’s the motion”.

He writes good songs, plays catchy riffs and sings in his delightfully understated manner at the same time. Not easy, those who say his stuff is easy to play probably aren’t singing over it or replicating his changes of pace that give a euphoric feeling where it’s needed. That and the guy who played rhythm on a Tele behind who kept things moving along.

I don’t agree with any technically competent player being able to mimic any other. On easy stuff maybe but once you’ve learned to do bends/pull offs/vibratos/tremolos a particular way it takes a long time to learn to do them another way – and do you really want to?

Chrissie Hynde has played with lots of lead guitarists and none play the Chaingang break the same as Billy Bremner’s version on the single. Billy plays the run down with a bend that goes fast up then slow down on the fifth fret followed by a slow bend down to finish on the second; it gives it that sad country feel. Watching Youtubes one guy doesn’t do the first bend at all, another adds lots of vibrato and replaces the middle bend with a hammer on. It’s always instantly recognisable but each guitarist gives it his own feel.

I’d also disagree that Page should be up there

Like arguing that Hendrix should not be up there was an awesome session guitarist even before Led Zep and I would ignore the opinion of those who dont rate him personally. He will be in the top 10 of any list of the best guitarists.

Guitarist depends – I knew someone who rated him as you could always tell it was him as soon as he started playing but I just dont like what he plays so cannot really say whether he is a good or a great guitarist as i think what he is doing is shite.
Competent but shite- Phil collins with a guitar 😉

YMMV
FWIW i always enjoy threads where those who dont play the guitar tell us what its like to play the guitar

You may as well argue that Danny Mac can do streetstyle BMX as its just a bike – of course he can but he would not be in the same league as the guys who just do that even though its just a different “style”.

I’m a big fan of Knopfler, whilst maybe not as technically brilliant as some, his ability to “hold back” is what makes tracks like Telegraph Road (live) so utterly mesmerising.
A real story teller, I cant think of one track where he over-egged it which is the downfall of a lot of technically brilliant guitarists.

Sonny Landreth & Mark Knopfler – Blue tarp Blues

For me, it’s his ability to integrate his guitar into the song, rather than have it as what feels like an accompaniment to the story told in the song. The lyrics and guitar part are effortlessly synced 🙂

Like arguing that Hendrix should not be up there

Hendrix took rock guitar to new places and was doing stuff no one else was at the time- playing lead and rhythm at the same time, extreme whammy bar, use of controlled feedback etc as well as being a good songwriter and singer. Even the likes of Clapton was shocked by his abilities. I don’t think that Page ever got to that level. There were also lots of good session guitarists around back then. I still maintain Page is on top ten lists because of his song writing and because he was the guitarist in the biggest rock band there may ever have been- not because of any supreme ability on the guitar.

BTW Junky I do play.

Agreed, Maxtorque.

Too many guitar heroes play over songs rather than being a part of them. I’m not going to enter into a best 100 debate but Knopfler’s playing works perfectly with the rest of the band.

Peter Green was cited above but there were three excellent guitarists playing complementary guitar parts on the early Fleetwood Mac tracks. Lynard Skynard’s Sweethome too. Slade’s Get Down Get with it and Keep on Rockin’ (hears lots of STwers muttering “WTF”) had Noddy laying down the rhythm line on his Tele with Dave (who would never make a top 100 list) playing a complementary part and Jim (a really very good bassist) using the middle rang of his base to play another complementary line. The total being much greater than the sum of the parts.

There were also lots of good session guitarists around back then

No there were two [ who were considered the best]and he was one of them despite being a not very good guitarist and respected only for the songs he had yet to write 😉

You also forget to mention the Yardbirds – for whom he started out as the bassist before becoming a lead guitarist

I disagree but one of the great things about music is that we all like different things.

I am not a massive fan of Hendrix but i would never ever diss him as a guitarist for the reasons you note.

What do you play – I only play classical stuff these days FWIW and in that you get technically difficult pieces that sound dire and easy pieces that sound beautiful Of course the best pieces do both

I’ll leave you with exhibit A

http://vk.com/video42820399_169628527

What do you play – I only play classical stuff these days FWIW and in that you get technically difficult pieces that sound dire and easy pieces that sound beautiful Of course the best pieces do both

Messed about with electric rock and blues for years but during the last year I’ve been learning acoustic fingerstyle- its like starting all over again as you need more left hand strength and a completely different set of motor skills for the right hand. So I guess I’m delving into the same hinterland as Mark Knopfler. Its opened up a whole new world of guitar appreciation and given me a new perspective on the instrument. I’ve found some fantastic players that have a musical and technical ability way beyond most rock guitarists but because they don’t write hit records people have never heard of them.

I agree you can’t judge a guitarist just by technical ability e.g Steve Vai has more technical ability than Mr Page but with one or two exceptions, his music leaves me cold. I’d rather listen to a Led Zep album any day.

Odd thread, really. Listen to him, decide if you like him. That’s all there is too it, guitar playing isn’t a competitive sport…

I have a really good mate called Patrick who lives in Leeds, is a very good guitarist. He used to work at a paper in Leeds and Knopfler was at the same paper as a cub reporter or something. Patrick was his kind of boss. They got put together because they knew Knopfler played. Patrick invited him round to his place for a jam session and a smoke and a drink. Knopfler turned up and as Patrick was making him a drink he started to play. As Patrick said “He was very very good a little bit special”

Odd thread, really. Listen to him, decide if you like him. That’s all there is too it, guitar playing isn’t a competitive sport…

Yes and no.

But as someone who has never even picked up a guitar, it’s interesting hearing what people who can play think about musicians I listen to.

Musicians are the last people you should ever talk to about music.
🙂

It’s about how it makes you feel.
Nothing else matters.

It’s fun talking about guitar geekery, but that’s all it is.

Anything that get’s in the way is irrelevant – other people’s opinions especially.
🙂

I play guitar, I listen to guitar, I have no idea who is better than whom 😉

Subjective stuff, for me you could build a good argument that Jimmy Page is the most accomplished guitarist ever. And Led Zep are the highwater mark of rock n roll (and high up in several other genres).

I really like Mark Knopflers playing also. I like guitar music.

Steve vai, irritating noodling over a bland backing track but some love it apparently.

Led Zep are blues rock, Page was too out of it to play stuff as fast as Rock Around the Clock. Junior was raving about some super fast metal guy who I dismissed as “they played faster than that 50 years back”. Junior could play the metal line (some kind of sweep picking) but soon gave up on the rockability riff in Rock around the Clock.

Things move on, people invent new stuff, reinvent stuff. I really like Telephone with the dueling guitars of Bertignac and Aubert which feels like recycled Chuck Berry to play.

I don’t really see much personality coming through in Knopfler, though he’s great technician.

Musicians are the last people you should ever talk to about music.
It’s about how it makes you feel.
Nothing else matters.
It’s fun talking about guitar geekery, but that’s all it is.
Anything that get’s in the way is irrelevant – other people’s opinions especially.

I hear plenty of personality with Knopfler, you only have to hear the first two or three notes to know its him, and to be perfectly honest I’d much rather have that in a guitarist that blinding technical brilliance, which can all to easily turn into fret-wankery. Dave Gilmore is another who has that instantly identifiable thing going on.
For sheer technical brilliance with a guitar coupled with personality and humour, then Adrian Legg really takes some beating.
TBH, I’ve rather grown out of being impressed by fancy fingerwork on a guitar, I’ll take technical competence allied with good songwriting skills to create a terrific piece of music, Laura Marling is someone who has those abilities; she’s a very good guitarist, which underpins her superb songwriting skills perfectly.
I really don’t ask more than that from an artist.

Blimey there isn’t half some bullshite spoured on guitar threads on stw. All its missing now is emsz or whomever to come and say that all electric guitarists are shit and that acoustic is the only way to go!

Whomever said that guitar isn’t a competitive sport is on the money for me……I really hate it when people are derogatory towards incredibly talented musicians…. Saying that Page is nothing special, I’d nonsense. I’m nothing special…..and I play for a living…..people like Page are special, hence the legacy that they leave.

Guitar competition first browser result, there are pages of them.

I understand how you feel but there’s certainly rivalry. Which is a good thing, it pushes the standards of playing and composition higher. And a bad thing because some players put technical prowess over musicality.

For me you can split guitarists into two groups. You get the guys who are great technicians who can play any piece without mistakes note perfect. Then there are the ones who are great songwriters who can write a great riff. Very rarely do you get one that can do both. I think Gilmour, Knopfler, Page and Blackmore are definitely in the group that can do both. Ritchie Blackmore for me was another guitarist who could wipe the floor with Page who never got the recognition he deserved.

And Randy Rhoads could wipe the floor with Blackmore (perfect pitch harmionics live) 8)

Well if we really are going to play “who’s best”… . 😉

Like Knopfler a lot, definitely one of my favourite guitarists (and I do play if that qualification is required to comment!).

A lot of Dire Straits stuff was pretty bland for sure, but the best of it was top-class. I saw Knopfler live on his first solo tour post-DS and he was superb – scotroutes description is miles away from my memory of it. Favourite moment being the massively-extended version of Sultans of Swing. Having played it at normal speed, slowed it down, cranked it back up to near double-speed, when he stoppped there was almost a stunned-silence before the audience responded. A wee Glasgow punter piped up in that moment of quiet and said “Aye, ye’re getting the hang ‘o that now, pal!”. 😆

Personality wise, he just comes across as a quiet, understated dude, but his playing actually has a pretty unique style (hence the unique sound). He rarely uses a pick and plays most stuff with a blend of pick-style and fingerstyle, which allows him to pluck a lot of the notes, pulling the string out and letting it snap back down (e.g. Money for Nothing riff). Makes his stuff easy-ish to play along too, but hard to really match the tone and style.

stevomcd

Like Knopfler a lot, definitely one of my favourite guitarists (and I do play if that qualification is required to comment!).

It appears it is a required criteria according to Junkyard, who seems to consider himself at least a contemporary, of Knopfler, if not his superior.

Junkyard
FWIW i always enjoy threads where those who dont play the guitar tell us what its like to play the guitar

You may as well argue that Danny Mac can do streetstyle BMX as its just a bike – of course he can but he would not be in the same league as the guys who just do that even though its just a different “style”.

I’ve only been playing for twenty years or so. Long enough to know I’m shit, and long enough to appreciate someone with Mark Knopfler’s skills, even if I find him boring.

The most amazing guitar playing, most amazing performace I’ve ever seen and I reckon ever will was Bert Jansch in a library not far from my home town in Ireland. Even though he played “relatively sedate” folk and blues every note he played was wrought with passion, agony, joy, pain….it was just sublime and I was two feet away from him. It was just mesmerising. I’m not an emotional, type, not in the teary crying way, but I was sober and having to hold myself together, same for my friend.

At the end of the gig I queued up to speak to Bert and everyone in the queue seemed to be guitar geek muso bores, asking him about picking styles and tuning and he looked bored to tears. We were last, and when I spoke to him I just told him “you ****ing rocked, that was amazing” to which he laughed and slapped me on the shoulder. Bert asked me if I like the cset he played and I said, yes but Poison was my favourite song of his, why didn’t he play it. We had a brief conversation about heroin addiction, and then he promised to play it if I came to his show the following night in Belfast.
I couldn’t make it, but my friend did, and he told me how Bert dedicated his rendition of Poison that night to me by telling a story about meeting two crazy guys in a gig in a library 😉

Vanilla

For me, a massive influence. I even had to get a red strat (copy) to try to copy some of the stuff on alchemy.
He’s one of those players that has a sound. You know it’s him. There was a track doing the rounds that was just knopflers guitar from the sultans album track. It wasn’t what he played, it was the other bits that made the track.

he just plays in a very understated way, it’s a story and that’s quite unusual.

You either like it or you don’t. It’s not law…!!!

Yes Randy was a great technician loved some of his work with Osbourne but not really a composer or creator of songs just really added the guitar bit to make it interesting. Blackmore was for me the creative driving force behind most of their really good stuff. Deep Purple in Rock etc. This isn’t really about who we think is the best player more who is a consummate all rounder.