Lightweight AM wheelset dilemma?

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  • Lightweight AM wheelset dilemma?
  • butterbean
    Member

    I think I want something that doesn’t exist sadly 🙁

    I’m looking for something ideally that’s tubeless, or can be made tubeless easily, either QR rear or 10mm available & around the 1700g mark.

    Now, my big issue is i’ve had my fingers burnt with a set of Easton Haven’s, which have been, well, crap to put it bluntly. Had they been a bit more durable, they could have been the ideal setup.

    Don’t want to consider a set of Pro 2/Flow’s, as they are ~1900g, plus the strips etc come out well over the wrong side of 2kg all in, and I have an old set of Pro 2/DT5.1’s I’ll just chuck on for the bigger days.

    So, what’s out there? I’m really against the idea of a factory wheelset again, as I want something I can get spares for easily if needs be and my experiences, along with that of my riding buddies has proven the whole concept to be a massive pain in the arse.

    Am I really limited to a Pro 2/Stans Crest wheelset? I can’t see anything else that comes close to what I want. I like the look of the cheap Roval Traverse EL’s, but as the saying goes, once bitten, twice shy…

    Andyhilton
    Member

    pro2 evos on stans arch?

    wrecker
    Member

    Mavic crossmax SX.
    1750g, stiff, strong.

    Rorschach
    Member

    2nd SX’s.

    Light/Strong/Cheap………….Choose 2 😐

    DT240’s,Sapim CxRay’s,ENVE Am rims….total cost about £1800 😯

    dantsw13
    Member

    Hope pro2 on Mavic XM819 – about 1700g

    Sunringle black flag pro

    Not technically AM but mine are holding up well

    neninja
    Member

    My Hope Pro3 AM4 with Flow rims inc. discs, tape and valves are only 40g heavier than my Hope Pro2 with Arch rims inc. discs etc.

    Can’t remember the exact weights but less than 2kg including discs, yellow tape and valves.

    butterbean
    Member

    Mavic Factory wheelsets are a no go, heard far too many horror stories about reliability issues, spares issues and being bent over for parts when you need them.

    I don’t believe an XM819 can be built into a 1700g wheelset, the rims weigh more than Flows!

    Looked at the Arch, but no Hope Hoops available, and they seem a bit strange, a lot narrower than a Crest?

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    butterbean – Member

    Don’t want to consider a set of Pro 2/Flow’s, as they are ~1900g, plus the strips etc come out well over the wrong side of 2kg all in,

    No they don’t 😕 The yellow tape weighs on the skinny side of bugger all and the valves weigh only a few grams. You don’t need to use Stans rim strips with Flows.

    dantsw13 – Member

    Hope pro2 on Mavic XM819 – about 1700g

    Depends how few spokes you’re building with, and which spokes. But 32 and Comps, not even close.

    flow
    Member

    pro2 evos on stans arch?

    That would be my choice too

    butterbean
    Member

    [Quote]No they don’t The yellow tape weighs on the skinny side of bugger all and the valves weigh only a few grams. You don’t need to use Stans rim strips with Flows.[/quote]

    Matter of opinion of course, but I, like others found the yellow strips useless on Flows, they burp in hard corners. The only ones that worked properly took the wheelset were the heavier ones, taking the wheelset over 2kg. That’s not exactly light, even on a DH bike these days.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    No idea how people manage that tbh, unless it’s down to running very low pressures or unsuitable tyres… I’ve burped one tyre on my Flows and that was by smashing them off a rock the size of a fridge in France (left a decent amount of rim behind too). Just standard Kendas and Maxxi and Specializeds, none of ’em has ever been a problem. Exactly as reliable as my 819s.

    Premier Icon firestarter
    Subscriber

    I rate dt ex1750 that come in at er…1750g 😉

    butterbean
    Member

    No idea how people manage that tbh, unless it’s down to running very low pressures or unsuitable tyres…

    Ride and race a lot of DH, so maybe I push it a bit harder? I tend to ride XC like DH, with a few flat bits and up’s in the way. It was a lot better with the 2Bliss Specialized tyres though.

    Firestarter – EX1750 I did consider, but factory wheelset, price & no tubeless.

    Yetiman
    Member

    1700g for a pair of 819’s….not a chance. My front one is 940g and the rear is 1065g with valves fitted. My two sets of Flows are just under, and just over 1900g with tape and valves so they’re out.
    Spares availability has always put me off Crossmax SX’s but I’ve been told that’s not an issue now….. 🙄

    jedi
    Member

    sx all the way imo 🙂
    no issues with mine at all. and they are taking a hammering 🙂

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    DT240s, Flows and Revolutions. Agree with Northwind on the yellow tape, I know some very good DH racers who don’t have problems. Many tyres will be too tight with full on rimstrips.

    I tend to ride XC like DH, with a few flat bits and up’s in the way.

    Errr… That’s what XC is.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Did I miss you saying what your budget is?

    wrecker
    Member

    So, you dont want mavic, hope or easton. Roval Traverse rims are made of cheese.
    I dont know what you will end up with but you will be spending a LOT of money.
    Anyone know what the rims are on Mavic Crossmax SX?

    scruff
    Member

    Did I miss you explaining wtf lightweight AM means, is it an invention of MBR ? Going up/down/flat bits is called ‘riding your bike’.

    If you can make do with a light and strong wheelset rather than a niche bullshit words set, then spunk up some cash or have heavier or weaker.

    oink
    Member

    went from a set of hopes with x819s to a set of roval traverse el – same performance – seem to cope with my 14st and jumping/crashing and a fair few rocky trails – and come in at 1550g – win win – can be found a lot cheaper than retail if you look around for the 2011 ones.

    front comes with 9, 15 and 20 options, rear is just qr. tubless ready out of the box – been running them tubeless since i got them without issues.

    the rear hub uses a dt swiss freewheel

    rovals are made by specialized

    butterbean
    Member

    Not interested in Mavic built wheels – seen and heard way to many horror stories.

    I’m fine with Hope hubs, Mavic, Stans, etc. Just don’t want a factory built wheelset any more. I, and various people I ride with have had way too many issues, and then spares can be a real headache on top.

    Looked at the DT240’s, but a 20g weight saving on a front 20mm Pro 2 seems pointless for a hub that costs 3 times the price, when tyres vary more than that. About 10g difference on a rear too.

    Budget, well, up to and around £400 really. I find it strange that there is a large hole between XC race wheelsets around 1500g & DH wheelsets around 1900/2000g that doesn’t cost the earth, and is factory built.

    b r
    Member

    Why not the Hope/Crest combo – my Pro2 Evo SP set came in at 1613g with tape, valves and 20mm end caps.

    I realise that they are very popular, but there is a reason – they work.

    By comparison, a Pro 2 819 set I’ve got with valves and 20mm caps was 2028g on my scales.

    butterbean
    Member

    Did I miss you explaining wtf lightweight AM means, is it an invention of MBR ? Going up/down/flat bits is called ‘riding your bike’.

    If you can make do with a light and strong wheelset rather than a niche bullshit words set, then spunk up some cash or have heavier or weaker.

    Ooh, did I manage to find your pressure point?

    Ok, put it in simple terms, just for you. I want a wheelset thats not for XC racing, and one that’s not DH heavy, without requiring a second mortgage to purchase, one I can buy spares for without drawing blank faces from various bike shops, only to then wait 3 weeks for something to arrive.

    B R – the Hope/Crest combo is currently winning – my only slight concern was it being a bit too weak. But, to be fair everything is off the shelf bits should I roast a rim, and the money saved means I can afford to do thaty every so often.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    I have Pro2/Crests on my “AM” hardtail and they are a lot stiffer than the Traversees they replaced.

    The Rovals are good wheels in a lot of ways but they do flex a bit and I always thought of them more as wide-rimmed XC wheels.

    If you’ve already got a heavier wheelset for smashing down actual mountains then the Crest Hope Hoops would be an excellent complement to them I think.

    messiah
    Member

    Arch or Flow on the lightest hubs you can find, i.e. FRM/American-Classic/DT/Tune, built up with with DT Revolution spokes and Alloy Nipples would easily come in under 1700g.

    Rev spokes and alloy nipples I’ve found to be okay for a few years of life, you could go brass rear or both for increased durability. In my experience once you bend a wheel like this it needs a full rebuild,

    JonEdwards
    Member

    Hope pro2, Arch, Supercomp spokes, ally nips. 1650g (ish – from memory), pretty stiff, reasonably strong (so far, only had’em 4 or 5 months)

    b r
    Member

    BB

    They are stiff. I run them on a HT, so the rear gets a beating – and at Cannock on Sat, even felt the forks ‘twist’ (Magura Thor c/w 20mm) for the first time it was that bumpy/hard on the last downhill Monkey section.

    Wheels are straight as a die though after over 6 months of use.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    My ‘bare’ Pro 2/Crests were 1585g, so that supports b r’s weights. You could wait for the new Arch EX, halfway between Crests and Flows.

    v10
    Member

    I run 2 sets:

    Goldtec am/pro competition hubs on ZTR Arch – Brass Nipples – 1670g
    Goldtec am/pro competition hubs on ZTR Crest – Alu Nipples – 1460g

    Both bare weights but a yellow rimstrip and valve doesnt add a lot. Both been faultless but you can feel the extra stiffness in the arch’s.

    vikingboy
    Member

    Our riding styles sound similar,I’m 220lbs and have had good luck with Easton havocs. No hub issue and the rims are stronger than havens (I broke a carbon rim). Crossmax sx are strong too but if they don’t work I guess you are right that what you want doesn’t exist and you need to go to a heavier DH rim like a Deemax Ultimate.

    stevenieve
    Member

    Industry 9’s All Mountain or the slightly heavier Enduros
    Really fast pick-up hubs, 120 point engagement.
    Aluminium spokes (comes with 4 spares).
    Choice of colours for both hubs and spokes.
    Have the Enduro set for a few months and have been great.
    Can be fitted to standard 32 hole rims

    juan
    Member

    pro ll dt revolutions and some spank rims like the subrosa should do just fine, provided they are build and tensionned by someone who knows his stuff. As for mavic wheelset, the am on is the slr.

    flow
    Member

    Arch or Crest Hope Hoop as said many times already.

    mrblobby
    Member

    Pro 2 evo SP hubs and crest rims here. Heavier than XC race wheels, lighter than proper AM wheels. For me, just about perfect for British trail riding. Also easy to get spares for and service myself. Easy to convert between wheel standards too. Not too expensive either. Unless you want something that stands out a bit more you really can’t go wrong.

    Only practical reason not to get them is if you run fat rubber. They’re fine with big 2.25 tyres, but if you were running say 2.5 then you might find them a bit narrow. Also find hub engagement can be a little slow compared with some properly expensive hubs.

    Though those industry 9 wheelsets are lovely…

    flow
    Member
    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    butterbean – Member

    Ride and race a lot of DH, so maybe I push it a bit harder?

    Incidentally, looking at my last message I think my tone was accidentally a bit s*** so thanks for taking it as it was meant not as it read.

    I’m not the hardest of riders but still, I’ve had occasions of stupidly letting the pressure drop to unsafe levels and even though the tyre’s been pulled miles off to the side of the rim the bead’s stayed locked. Maybe variations in the rims or tyres? I know some right fast mad b***ards that get on fine with it too.

    Maybe just a ymmv thing but it’s definately not the case that everyone should assume their Flows will need rim strips, is probably a fair compromise. Sabrina Jonnier uses yellow tape and tubeless on hers 😉

    I too am reading with interest, having had disastrous problems with Havens and needing a new rear wheel. The 2012 Crossmax SX looks great but I’m really put off by the stupid hub preload system.

    Currently thinking of a Stan’s Flow rim with a DT Swiss 440 hub, not the lightest but should be durable. Any thoughts?

    HarYuken
    Member

    flow – Member

    http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=496

    Who in their right mind would buy them over Hope Hoops?

    I did and they have been fine. They were significantly cheaper and they threw in a free tubeless kit worth £30, which clinched the deal.

    What makes the Hopes that much better than these hubs? They are made by Novatec/Joytec, who make good quality hubs.

    http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/superstar-hubs-worth-risking

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    I’m a bit underwhelmed by my Hope Hoops, not sure I’d buy another set. Can’t really put my finger on why, they feel slow, and it’s not just because they’re heavier than my race wheels. Cynic-Al tells me I’m not allowed to put it down to bearing drag, even though there is tonnes, and they’re starting to go a bit gritty despite having relatively little use.

    I’d probably choose the Superstars if I was after another set (and I didn’t have access to Hoops at trade!).

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Hoops seem to have come back down in price so the Superstars aren’t as tempting an option as they were. If their builds were more consistent they’d be a better option but my mate’s had nightmares with his Superstars (including being told that it was all his fault for expecting an all mountain wheelset to survive Glentress red)

    The Switch hub feels pretty much exactly as draggy as a Pro2, though I don’t think the difference is noticable in use myself (my ancient Shimanos spin forever, at least 10 times longer than either of my Pro2s, but they all feel the same when riding)

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    I suspect it is psychological and the difference is the weight, but I know my race wheels will spin better with the brakes dragging slightly than my Hopes will without! Must be some losses there!

    Agree on SSC builds, seen some really poor ones. Could get Novatech hubs off eBay and custom build, dunno how the price would compare.

    wrecker
    Member

    including being told that it was all his fault for expecting an all mountain wheelset to survive Glentress red

    Really? 😯

    flow
    Member

    I did and they have been fine. They were significantly cheaper and they threw in a free tubeless kit worth £30, which clinched the deal.

    What makes the Hopes that much better than these hubs? They are made by Novatec/Joytec, who make good quality hubs.

    They aren’t that much difference in price at all. Novatec hubs are cheap as chips, my brother has some on his road bike. Hope hubs are way better quality, and customer service is excellent if anything does go wrong.

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