Captain Flasheart, I too have heard that the translation from the Koran’s Arabic might be raisins, not virgins. Something to do with the value of dried fruit in desert climes back in the day. Those martyrs are going to be mighty hacked off when they’re presented with a box of SunBlest!

It repulses me that one of them may be released in 45 years.

I would not wish harm on any human but I hope they spend the rest of there days, in solitary confinement with nothing but basics to survive on.

I hope they live long quite lifes with the company of nobody, and that there crimes/appeals recive as little attention as possible as they seem to feed of any kind of publicity as (marturisum) which seems to make them happy.

My thoughts are with lees family, and hope they are provided with help they may need to move on to a better place in their life. Nothing will ever replace a Son, Father, Husband, uncle, brother or Friend.

I find t hard to believe that all of the people so vociferous in their support for death penalty here are just as outraged by the murder of women by their male partners, which is by far much more common type of murder (which is itself an atypical and uncommon crime).

This and most other crimes are not “Clear Evidence” for the death penalty.

It’s a method of dispensing justice from a long time ago that was based on fear and not needing to deal with prisoners. We could deport them that was a good idea a couple of hundred years ago.

Spending a lifetime reflecting on what you have done is possibly one of the toughest punishments you can hand down to somebody. For all those wishing to dispense death would you do it yourself.

For all those that think this sort of thing un heard of take a look around the world. Is it different to launching a drone strike on a village killing innocent men women and children? The case of Baha Mousa above?

On the waking up surrounded by virgins it could just mean arriving in games workshop though.

On the waking up surrounded by virgins it could just mean arriving in games workshop though.

😆

I’m firmly in the “death penalty is bad” camp.

For a start I don’t really think killing someone is OK as long as they killed someone else, EG. If I watched someone kill someone else so I killed them, I could be given the death penalty for killing them but the person who killed me would not be punished…

Also in most cases (this one being an exception) you cannot be 100% sure that someone is guilty and the risk of killing innocent people is not worth it IMHO. Time spent on your own to reflect on your actions and potentially change and contribute something to society is far better.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/26/domestic-violence-risk-death-injury-police

In a stark illustration of the levels of domestic violence across the country, data from 34 out of the 44 police forces in England, Wales and Scotland reveals that at least 10,952 individuals, most of whom are women, were deemed to be at high risk of violent death in the home, or of suffering serious violence, in the year to November.

I’m glad we don’t have the death penalty and wholeheartedly agree with the courts judgement.

I also congratulate the timing of the trial regarding the delivery of the whole life tariff, European court ruling.

It’s almost like they planned it that way.

You only have to look at Nazi Germany, The Khmer Rouge, or any of the recent civil wars in Africa to see ordinary family people hacking their neighbours limbs off after a few months brain washing

To be honest it rarely requires brainwashing. Imagine if you’d taken the convicted chaps and given to the mob outside. I doubt it would have been catcalls and jeering in store for them.

Firmly against the death penalty, I can only guess at the hell that Lee Rigby’s family must be in, my thoughts are firmly with them.

Rather than argue about what should happen to these two men, our efforts should be directed to trying to find out why they did what they did, and trying to prevent it from occurring again.

These two wanted to die, I can think of no better punishment for them to be shuffling about in their 80’s in a pair of slippers while still in jail.

I’m pro capital punishment, particularly for rapists and repeat (+1) violent offenders and middle lane hoggers, but something about this pair’s outlook is appropriate.

They’re going to have a miserable time.

I’ll add my voice to those who are against capital punishment.

I could want for nothing more in this case than for the killers to spend a comfortable time in prison contemplating their actions and hopefully over time coming to understand their mistakes and regret their actions. I hope that we can show them that in spite of their incivility, we as a nation continue to see dignity and humanity in them. I hope that In time, their experiences can even have a positive impact on future generations by their helping to reach out to those who could find themselves walking the same path.

Personally I don’t think that I agree with tariffs this long, I would like to see them learn from their actions and if that happens ideally we’d be able to return them to society.

Capital punishment would have been too good for them and would have made them martyrs, which was exactly why they rushed at the armed Police in the hope of being shot dead.

I heard some protests going on in the background when I saw the news report on TV and guessed it would be the National Front crowd.

I’m wondering if they will get any support in prison from fellow Muslims; the fact that they are the spoiled and bored kids of two rich and deeply Christian Yoruba families who converted to Islam might not endear them to any Asian “lifelong” Muslims who might view them as fakes.

The death penalty is truly horrific. To kill someone because you’re unhinged, brainwashed or in a violent rage is one thing, but to do it in the cold light of day as you look into their eyes and perhaps listen to them pleading or crying, that is truly frightening.

I teach my kids that revenge is not a good thing.

I approve of the sentence in this case, but I do feel sorry for the killers. They got brainwashed by some crackpots and wanted to do something they thought was for a good cause. A very sad **** up situation, but I don’t hate them. I don’t think it was personal.

I know this will get me some flaming, so please read it carefully, but there are some parallels between Rigby’s death and those of Iraqi civilians in the second Gulf war.

tits elaborate or gtfo

I also congratulate the timing of the trial regarding the delivery of the whole life tariff, European court ruling.
It’s almost like they planned it that way.

It wouldn’t have made any difference, surely. If a sentence of a whole life tariff had been handed down before the European decision it would have just been added to the list of sentences that would need to be revised with a tariff, wouldn’t it? Or would it have been grandfathered in?

This case brings up the debate for the death sentence.
I realise this would make them martyrs but would save 45 years of jail cell cost
There is no doubt these guys are guilty and the money saved could be given to disabled children/cancer patients/whoever.

Except the death sentence costs more money as you need an appeals process to make sure the innocent don’t end up getting their brains fried, then you need to convince doctors to actually be involved with the procedure (good luck with that) oh and then you need to take into account the public health costs of the death penalty. Which is that it actually reduces the publics value for life and helps to increase murder rates.

All because people like a bit of retribution with their morning coffee.

OK, he was actually innocent but at least it was quick. Neville Heath was tried on 24th September 1946 and executed on 16th October.

Oh yahhh that makes it all okay then.

I’m not a fan of the defence sentence one bit, I just think it’s a shame the officers who shot them hadn’t spent a bit more time down the range..

All because idiots like a bit of retribution with their morning coffee.

+1

Such people are dangerous. They also deserve whatever they get. They have opted out of humanity by acting in this way.

I agree with them going away for ever but you’re dehumanising them. They aren’t monsters, they are humans…remember that and maybe just maybe then…humanity can one day face itself instead of labelling bad people as monsters who are somehow different from the rest of it.

Put under the right pressure and the right cirumstances you could murder someone.

footflaps

Yayyy!

Someone mentioned the idea of capital punishment ‘teaching people that killing is wrong’. Hah. People who kill generally already know it’s wrong.

And those that don’t are sociopaths who’d carry out their murders regardless.

Tom W

You talk about dehumanising and the fact that “they are humans”. Do you think we as a species have some divine right just because we’re ‘human’.

Bearing in mind the concept of ‘human rights’ is a fabrication, why shouldn’t we dispose of broken and faulty members of our species?

We’re too sentimental. Just get rid of trash like them. The silver lining in this case is by not disposing of them we deny them of their wish. They can’t top themselves as their ideals don’t allow it…..

You talk about dehumanising and the fact that “they are humans”. Do you think we as a species have some divine right just because we’re ‘human’.

No, nothing divine. But they are still human, and that should still mean something. If it doesn’t, then you’re not that much better than them. You’d kill them on your principle, they killed Rigby on their principle.

You talk about dehumanising and the fact that “they are humans”. Do you think we as a species have some divine right just because we’re ‘human’.

Bearing in minds the concept of ‘human rights’ is a fabrication, why shouldn’t we dispose of broken and faulty members of our species?

We’re too sentimental. Just get rid of trash like them. The silver lining in this case is by not disposing of them we deny them of their wish. They can’t top themselves as their ideals don’t allow it.

I knew it, unenlightened. Care to explain how human rights are a fabrication?

Murderers are a product of their neurobiology and their environment, there’s no such thing as free will. Not that this means they shouldn’t go to prison, but prison should be viewed as a sad and in a perfect world unnecesarry process to protect the public further from a deviant product of nature and society. They are to be pitied. You for example.. could have been born with the right genes to be a sociopath, I’d have hoped people understood that and had some humility and empathy for the suffering of people that have gone wrong.

I might be a raging atheist but I’m still 10 times the Christian you will ever be, even if you don’t care – I do.

Bearing in mind the concept of ‘human rights’ is a fabrication, why shouldn’t we dispose of broken and faulty members of our species?

Some would argue Jews and homosexuals are faulty members of our species. If you’d lived in Nazi Germany, you’d have been the type that would have been brainwashed into believing so.

Molgrips,

Humanity doesn’t mean anything over any other species and nor should it.

I don’t go round killing things other than for food. I can’t see how you can criticise that.

Humanity does mean something. Your second statement shows that.

I’m not criticising the fact that you don’t kill. That is patently absurd.

Molgrips

You can’t rope me in the same category as those mongs just because I don’t subscribe to the view that there is anything special about the human race over anything else. That was my point.

On the subject of killing, most species don’t kill for the sake of it. Arguably puts us as a lower form of life than most.

Mikertroid – not sure if you’re aware of it, but you’re coming across a bit ‘tomorrow belongs to me’. When you talk about ‘disposing of broken and faulty members of our society’, who exactly would you include in that process? I know I’m probably coming over a bit pc, but here’s a little bit of information about me. I’m a psychiatric nurse, my eldest son’s gay and my youngest has learning difficulties. So much of what you posted boils my piss, but your master stroke has to be your use of the term ‘mongs’. Well done sir, well done.

Whilst being bundled downstairs after ranting about allah, Adebolago was heard to loudly complain “You’re breaking my arm!”

Bless. A taste of what’s to come methinks, old boy.

C Ya. Wouldn’t want to B Ya.

Humanity doesn’t mean anything over any other species and nor should it.

So we can eat people then?

Where’s my spit and piri piri sauce.

Also using this argument, we as a society should act like animals as well. I should be able to assault the next person who looks at my food in the wrong way.

On the subject of killing, most species don’t kill for the sake of it. Arguably puts us as a lower form of life than most.

Hehe, I like this one. What about cats, apes and dolphins?

I sense that you’re some kind of right wing animal rights type.

You can’t rope me in the same category as those mongs just because I don’t subscribe to the view that there is anything special about the human race over anything else. That was my point.

Yes he can, you display about as much empathy as a psychopath.

who exactly would you include in that process

Perhaps ‘mongs’ or those with Downs Syndrome as we tend to call them these days?

Tom,

I wouldn’t have any issue about it TBH. Just it’s not for sale.
Re: acting like animals-we ARE animals. Our behavioural characteristics are that of our particular species and we have our own societal code. But we’re bound by the same laws of nature that all other animals are. We’re not special.

Barnsley, I think you’re being a bit sensitive. I don’t think being gay or having learning difficulties qualifies you for the death penalty!!!

Re: the use of the word Mongs. I was being lazy in the use of a disparaging term for the Rigby Killers. But it’s a colloquial term I’d use again in conversation to describe them. I don’t call Down syndrome sufferers mongs.

I think I’ve caused accidental thread drift! But it’s been engaging!

It was the post about disposing of broken members of our society that I was questioning, but using the term ‘mongs’ really **** me off. I’d rather be over sensitive than a ****.

Re: acting like animals-we ARE animals. Our behavioural characteristics are that of our particular species and we have our own societal code. But we’re bound by the same laws of nature that all other animals are. We’re not special.

A neuroscientist would say differently, higher order species have lots of similarities to human behaviour but in other ways we are quite different. Of course we have unconcious primal desires, but to say that we are no different in terms of behavior to a hyena is to be as blind as those who think we above the animal kingdom.

Barnsley,

I see. I think serial murderers and rapists would class as broken. Maybe I wasn’t specific enough.

I also accept I have some unconventional views. Doesn’t make me a psychopath however. Nor an animal rights fanatic either.

Why are they broken? I thought you said that we are no different to animals.

Rape, serial killing…it’s all natural and has been encouraged by evoloution… rape and serial killing is an evoloutionary succesful pathway. Ducks gang rape each other, going by your logic…why shouldn’t we?

Anyway, more importantly I need to go ride 🙂

barnsley, you really need to calm down.

I don’t think Barnsley needs to calm down.