Large vertical radiator fell off plasterboard wall

Today a large vertical radiator that was installed before Christmas fell off the plasterboard wall it was attached to.

Luckily nothing or nobody was hurt but it was quite a shock. A valve ripped off and water leaked but I managed to turn the valves off quickly and plug the radiator so there isn’t really any damage from water.

It was fixed using hollow wall anchor bolts. All of these have ripped out. It looks like catastrophic failure of the plasterboard around the fixings. It looks like all of the fixings had expanded correctly and are fully through the board. It was fitted by a reputable local heating engineer we have used before. They promptly came around and removed the radiator fully then reinstated the rest of the system. They were noticably mortified that this had occurred.

Right now I’m not going to dwell on why exactly the fixings failed and want to focus on getting it fixed. It won’t be reattached with hollow wall anchors!

I’d really appreciate some advice on how this can be fixed.

The plasterboard has Celotex type insulation friction fitted between the studs behind it. I think there are two options to remedy this. The first is to cut a wide strip out of the plasterboard between the studs, then cut into the foam and fit noggins of C16 for the radiator to hang off, attached to the studs with angle brackets or hangers. Then reinstate the plasterboard, fill etc before rehanging the radiator.

Another option is to use osb or ply instead of studs/noggin. Not 100% thought this through but I know it’s used for hanging bathroom basins. Maybe replace plasterboard with the osb/ply sheet. Can you plaster successfully over osb/ply?

Please let me know your pragmatic thoughts

Something has just occurred to me. We have only recently moved in here and this radiator replaced a log burner the previous owners had fitted. The flue used to run up to the roof directly past where one of the fittings was, and obviously the other fitting location isn’t that far away either. I wonder if the heat had degraded the plasterboard

Seeing as you’ll already have a massive section of knackered plaster board (I assume) I’d go with the belt and braces option of new noggins personally.

Yeah nog out with 4×2 noggins between the studs which will be absolutely fine for radiator fixings. And patch up the plasterboard.

Edit.  No need for angle brackets or hangers, just screw into the studs using an impact driver, it won’t go anywhere.

Dwangs.

You need dwangs.

This is true as we are in Scotland

I’ve got a bunch of 3 column rads in my house, all are supported with additional feet for this reason, I think when I bought the vertical 2m one from Screwfix it stated any rads over 1.8m had to be fitted the legs?

They get very heavy when full.

Noggins will always be the best fixing in drywall but a couple of spring toggles per bracket  with a decent load rating should hold up a radiator no problem,

Are there any specific hangers or brackets can use for the noggins/dwangs?

it stated any rads over 1.8m had to be fitted the legs?

No legs with this one but I think it is 1.8m. I can use the leg idea though. The framing for the lower brackets could be built up from the stud wall base plate so effectively the radiator would be resting on the floor.

Is this fitted to a timber stud wall then?
Bad workmanship to fit a tall 1.8m vertical rad just on plasterboard fixing, plasterboard itself has a very low weight strength per metre rating.

Now you have a big hole do it properly, fit noggins between the studs where rad brackets are, screwed diagonally up and down into the vertical studs, do not screw through the stud into the end grain of the noggin, then cover with plasterboard.

You can not plaster over ply or osb

Just plasterboard? Wow that to me definitely doesn’t sound strong enough….

Our bathroom has a tall column radiator and I couldn’t believe the weight of it alone without water so not surprised the plasterboard failed, sorry to hear it did though, nobody likes to hear of house projects of any sort going bad. Like our shower tray, 3 trays later it’s finally been ok…. These things happen but definitely sounds like it was too heavy for the fixings

The flue used to run up to the roof directly past where one of the fittings was, and obviously the other fitting location isn’t that far away either. I wonder if the heat had degraded the plasterboard

If fitted to spec that won’t have been plasterboard, it should have been proper non flammible cement board. Which sounds strong, but I’ve no idea if it has the same load capacity as plasterboard.

I’d be replacing an entire sheet of whatever the board is with something like OSB then painting roughly over it before fitting the new rad. Doesn’t need to look good if it’s hidden

I fitted a couple of vertical column rads with no legs to dry lined walls about 6 years ago.

The are specific bolts that are designed for specifically this job. They go into the brickwork but allow considerable weight to be hung offset from the wall.

Whoever fitted yours are showing cowboy tendencies.  They  used [very much] the wrong fittings.

I’d be questioning if the flue is insulated and if not consider what flammable & heat affected materials might be within its reach.

Can you plaster successfully over osb/ply?

You can definitely render over it, just staple mesh up first.

You can also plaster over wooden lintels in the same way, so in practice, “yes”

Noggins will always be the best fixing in drywall but a couple of spring toggles per bracket  with a decent load rating should hold up a radiator no problem,

our heating “engineer” insisted on additional studs (noggins) for a big vertical radiator.  It weighs something like 50kg empty, and will be well over that when full.  It’s not the toggles that will fail it’s the plasterboard the clamp to.  4 toggles MIGHT hold that weight fine but it seems like you are plasterboard is structurally shit.  A rad that size falling off a wall at the height they are could easily injure someone.  Radiators can bumped, banged, stuff hung on them etc -,even if it was fine on day 1 I would be worried that abuse would work a fitting loose and then stress the others.

I have 2 of these 1.8m tall 3 column and 5 column  rads on hollow stud over brick  and it never occured to us to use hollow wall fixings.

Ours are wall anchored into the brick behind the stud void.

I’d only consider secured dwangs for fitting these . Lots of weight little ones 30kg plus water

Turns out a Dwang is a Noggin. Not sure which name I prefer the most?

It weighs something like 50kg empty, and will be well over that when full.  It’s not the toggles that will fail it’s the plasterboard the clamp to.

Especially if some fool decides to get drunk and swing from it. Come on, it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Dwangs.

You need dwangs.

Turns out a Dwang is a Noggin. Not sure which name I prefer the most?

When I were a lad ,a Dwang was used to describe a tap holder.  😉

A large iron lever, used by blacksmiths for screwing bolt-nuts; a tap-wrench

Eek!
No advice.on the wall modifications, but I would probably look at the option of adding feet to take some of the load.

I’ve got two large flat panel radiators sitting in the garage soon to be installed in our extension. One is 1800×400 and the other is 1800×550 or thereabouts.
Was gonna go solely for wall hanging but I’m now gonna contact the plumber, builder and rad company to ask advice.on whether I should use the optional feet.

This is on solid brick wall, but maybe better to go for belts & braces.

Remember in brick a brown number 7 will hold 85kg. In plasterboard it’ll hold 8kg.

Toggle fixings dependant on brand show between 30 Nd 150kg in 12.5mm board.

In brick you can also use  anchor bolts which are 400kg load rated in brick (brick dependant). That’s what mine are up with.

I’ve stripped off the plasterboard at the base. Stud spacing is 800mm centres.

For the base I’m going to build a frame up from the base plate of the wall with 2×4. Currently debating with myself for the best orientation of the timber

Long side vertical will be stronger(?) but less depth to screw into. Short side vertical will mean screws for the brackets can go in deeper. Or I could double up… maybe that’s the answer

Stud spacing at 800mm centres is wrong, should be 400 or 600, and I bet there aren’t enough screws in each sheet either.

Just put some vertical studs in but flat where the brackets are to give more option of finding the fixing.

Ok this is what I have now

There’s a 50mm frame which the plasterboard is on. This appear to have 800mm spacing for at least 2 studs. This frame has 50mm celotex in it. Then there’s the actual framing of the building behind that, the stud in the centre. This stud location is good news as it’s exactly central to where the radiator goes so I can attach back to it and the studs in the front frame…. as long as what I use for noggin/dwang is 50mm

Timber frame construction with block work on the outside like this is common in Scotland. Wasn’t expecting the extra 50mm frame inside but it staggers the insulation at least

I would build a tee shaped support. Central column with 2 cross bars mitre joint at the height you want to scree the new fixings in to .
The outside each tee could sit on a block flat screwed in the srud . To give huge load support

Are there any specific hangers or brackets can use for the noggins/dwangs?

Just skew nail / screw them in place.

Seeing what you have now, I think it just needs a piece of wood (any old timber – doesn’t need to be C16 or anything) fixing across the three visible studs, flush with their front face (packed out if necessary) at appropriate heights to take the radiator mountings, then new plasterboard fitted back over the lot. Re-fix the radiator through the plasterboard and into the wood.

The presence of dense insulation board at the back of the plasterboard could have prevented the fixings from expanding properly. In any event it was taking a gamble just using them.

Turns out the 50mm frame the plasterboard is just attached to the 400mm spaced studs behind. It’s not a complete frame. More for spacing off.

So I’m now thinking to cut it out a section of 50mm make the cross piece span three studs. It will need packing out (ideas of with what?)

For the lower brackets these will have to be mounted on some uprights going up to the cross piece (mock up below, uprights will be taller). This is so the feed pipes come out of the wall. The level the pipe are needed at means that I can’t just have a cross piece. There is an advantage in that the weight on these brackets will go through to the floor

It will need packing out (ideas of with what?)

38mm thick cls and 12mm ply gets me to 50mm.
Small ply packers behind the cls on each stud, or face the cls with ply? I think facing it is best ??

Pack out behind.

If you pack infront you reduce the threads that are biting into a singular mass.

Doesn’t need to be ply its purely for packing.

Our radiator is now back onto the wall. The brackets are M8 coach bolted to dwangs/noggins which turn are coach bolted to the timber frame (not just stud work) of the house. The lower wooden supports inside the wall rest on the ground via the wall sole/base plate.

Lessons definitely learnt.

@stumpy01

I’ve got two large flat panel radiators sitting in the garage soon to be installed in our extension. One is 1800×400 and the other is 1800×550 or thereabouts.
Was gonna go solely for wall hanging but I’m now gonna contact the plumber, builder and rad company to ask advice.on whether I should use the optional feet.

Feet/Legs will have to be bolted into the floor, so they don’t just slide or in case they are knocked. You’ll still also need substantial fixings at the top into the wall.

EDIT: also unpack and check them over before you get someone to install. They can easily get damaged in transit. Previously have had a radiator that looked fine until I found something sharp and pointy had gone through the packing and gouged into the metal of the radiator. This was discovered just as they were going to be installed.

@dmorts – thanks for the heads-up. Mine are indeed still wrapped in their original cardboard sitting in the garage. They are so heavy and hard to move, that I haven’t dared touch them since we manhandled them in there.

Thinking about it, I am not sure feet will work anyway with the layout of piping that the plumber has installed thus far, and how he is planning to plumb them in.

I will be asking him what fixings he intends to use to secure them to the wall!

If you can get the box flat on the floor then checking them over is more manageable. The box should open like a book. A torch or phone light will reveal any dents if you look along the surfaces. I didn’t have to take it fully out of the box to check.

Post what your wall type is for the knowledgeable people here to give advice on the plumber’s proposed choice. If it’s wood then I recommend noggins/dwangs!

I’ve just gone and checked the ones we had put in to our extension five years ago. Our builders put in 150mm celotex on the walls, under the floors and in the flat roof when replacing that. On the walls this went straight onto the interior brick skin. They cut out slots in the celotex where the radiator mounts needed to go and screwed and glued in chunks of timber, then used through bolts to fasten. There’s been enough movement for it to crack around where the wood blends into the plaster skim – most likely a result of expansion than anything shifting.

I’m no expert, but I always look for a stud to screw into if it’s a plasterboard wall. hanging anything larger than a small picture frame off plasterboard is asking for trouble and gives me the heebie jeebies.