Labour Party problems

So I don’t think we need to be too concerned with his moral judgement.

But that should at least feature in the BBC article shouldn’t it. This is where its getting well out of hand.

You’re bloody joking. Sacks is a frequent contributor to R4 Today “thought for the day”.

Well here’s a thought, Lord Sacks – shut the f up about what Jeremy Corbyn did or didn’t say and let us know what you think about your pals killing children, health workers and journalists.

I don’t know why people are thrashing around on this, everyone knows what Corbyn is, his views have changed little over 40 years of campaigns on lots of issues which have all been essentially anti-establishment.

The sad fact for the non far left labour members is that your party is lost. Corbyn is the British Trump, he has said lots of unpleasant things, associated with lots of unpleasant people but is completely unrepentent and makes virtue of his gastlyness.

The great party that has achieved much over the years is now essentially on the way to being a personality cult and the home of people whose ambitions causes have nothing to do with the person stacking shelves at Tesco or on long term benefits nor the self employed or ambitious working class.

Nothing can be done about this, the expenses non declarations, the accidental/ unfortunate  anti semitism, the useful idiot for terrorism, the hatred of NATO the promotion of hostile regime media outlets.

Why?

It is already priced into his popularity and is attracting the fringe of the left to adopt the centre left party of the establishment as their own. For every long standing member who leaves in disgust, at least one more member of Corbyn’s cult joins. If you don’t read the Morning Star then Labour is going to be your party (although it would be useful if you didn’t read it too closely)

Tribal politics puts you in hock to these “fellow travelers” whilst they ignore you with the distain of those who “know” better than you

Every long standing Labour member I know likes Corbyn, is glad he took over and thinks its the “Blairite” Labour MPs trying to get rid of him who are **** up the Labour Party.

Don’t let the facts trouble you, bnd. On every international issue Corbyn has been proved right – the latest illustration being Theresa May’s visit to Robben Island. Corbyn was arrested for protesting apartheid, but for the Tories Mandela was a terrorst.

DrJ “Well here’s a thought, Lord Sacks – shut the f up about what Jeremy Corbyn did or didn’t say and let us know what you think about your pals killing children, health workers and journalists”

Bravo.

Well done for conflating the opinions of a British born Jew with “pals killing children, health workers etc.”

I’m assuming you are referring to Israel but last time I checked being born on Britain doesn’t automatically make anyone an Israeli cheerleader, likewise being born a Jew here (or anywhere else for that matter ). In further breaking news, not all Jews support Israel either.

Here’s what the ex-chief rabbi gets up to when he’s not comparing Corbyn to Enoch Powell

The context you missed Rob Dixon

Maybe, just maybe this might be the start of something positive…..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28939350

This seems to have slipped under the radar somewhat but I have been following this since it was announced last week, so fingers crossed. I do wonder why we haven’t heard any comments from any of our glorious political leaders?

Every long standing Labour member I know likes Corbyn, is glad he took over and thinks its the “Blairite” Labour MPs trying to get rid of him who are **** up the Labour Party.

Yep, include me in that as that is my view on it.  I like what he stands for and what he has been involved in over the years but he does need to move aside and let a front man take over who can take advantage of the tory mess and spin stuff up a bit to get the people that should be voting labour and would do better under a labour government to actually realise it.   No easier time to do that than at the moment.

No easier time to do that than at the moment.

Not really. I’m pretty sure the plan is for him to complete party reforms and win an election in order to prove that the policies have a mandate. In this way he can step aside safe in the knowledge that the party will once again be a party of the left for the forseeable future. If he leaves now, it will revert very quickly back to the centrist neoliberal tory-lite party of the Blair years.

I’m assuming you are referring to Israel but last time I checked being born on Britain doesn’t automatically make anyone an Israeli cheerleader, likewise being born a Jew here (or anywhere else for that matter ). In further breaking news, not all Jews support Israel either.

We’re not talking about British Jews, we’re talking about Jonathan Sacks, who has form as an apologist for the  excesses of the Israeli government.

Maybe the start of something positive

Or not

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/aug/30/trump-aid-cuts-hitting-palestinians-hard-agencies-warn?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Maybe the start of something positive

Or not

Trump is an utter weapons grade ****. Thankfully your linked article is covering a completely different agreement, so hopefully the 2 aren’t mutually linked or dependent.

The proposed ceasefire in the BBC article is a positive step and it would be criminal to not hope it is the start of a lasting ceasefire in the region that could possibly lead to a peaceful solution. After all that’s what we all want isn’t it?

I do find it very odd that neither May nor Corbyn have made a statement on a possible ceasefire but the UN’s Ban Ki-moon makes a very good point…

But in a statement via his spokesman, Mr Ban warned that “any peace effort that does not tackle the root causes of the crisis will do little more than set the stage for the next cycle of violence”.

STFU – the rallying call with the greatest momentum in modern politics.

he does need to move aside and let a front man take over who can take advantage of the tory mess

No doubt that’s the plan ASAP and as after the leadership election rule changes they made in April (IIRC) Corbyn can happily step aside in the safe knowledge his successor will be from his wing of the party.

I suspect the hold up is identifying a suitable successor. Finding an MP from his wing of the party with leadership qualities and no history of saying/doing metal things is nigh on impossible. I get the feeling their Wing of the parliamentary party is pretty much Diane, John, Jeremy and Dennis. They need someone at least 30 years younger who hasn’t got a lifetime of saying stupid things behind them.

So unless someone can name an appropriate Momentum friendly MP who could take over I’d assume Corbyn’s stuck in the job until suitable candidates are brought in as new MPs which really means after the next election, and that assumes the next election is a good few years time – it could be called next week in which case would there be time for deselections and to line the right candidates up? (…and all this raises the interesting question, are there *any* youngish “70’s style militant” types who are also articulate and media savvy? It could be like finding an intelligent, articulate flat earther –  there might not be *any* suitable candidates to parachute into safe seats for the top job.)

But yeah, 100pc agree with your point, Corbyn’s job is done and Momentum would happily let him off the hook as soon as a suitable candidate came up. Nobody would be more relieved to be gone than Corbyn.

That BBC story is 4 years old

<div class=”bbp-reply-author”>verses
<div class=”bbp-author-role”>
<div class=””>Subscriber</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=”bbp-reply-content”>

That BBC story is 4 years old

</div>

My bad, not sure what happened there.

Labour need to find someone who isn’t an MP yet but has all the qualities to get people behind them, spin stuff up against tories etc,. then get them into a safe seat.  They really need to get a lot better at playing the politics game.

Just don’t pick an orange coloured ‘businessman’ whatever you do.

No doubt that’s the plan ASAP and as after the leadership election rule changes they made in April (IIRC) Corbyn can happily step aside in the safe knowledge his successor will be from his wing of the party.

The “democracy review” carried out by Katy Clark, Jeremy Corbyn’s former political secretary, is expected to propose three changes to Labour Party rules:

• Labour leaders on local councils to be elected by local party members rather than councillors

• Candidates for party leader to need nominations from 5 per cent of Labour MPs rather than 10 per cent

• The representative of Labour MEPs on the party’s national executive to be abolished, before Brexit in March

Imagine the damn nerve, insisting leaders are elected by party members as opposed to those already at the trough.

I take it you’re not from Glasgow then? Could have done with those changes a couple of decades ago.

Better at playing the politics game? Despite Corbyn look at their share of the vote and compare to previous Labour leaders, look at their share of the growing demographics segments, look at how they understand and use social media effectively,,look at how ruthlessly they crush debate and look at their brilliant strategy for Brexit. Theirs delivers positive result.

Its the other parties not labour who need to know how to play the game. Labours are up there with the very worst of them. The Tories are miles behind

Despite Corbyn?  Seriously?

No doubt that’s the plan ASAP and as after the leadership election rule changes they made in April (IIRC) Corbyn can happily step aside in the safe knowledge his successor will be from his wing of the party.

Imagine the damn nerve, insisting leaders are elected by party members as opposed to those already at the trough.

As you can see, I made no comment on the merit of the changes, and certainly didn’t suggest that they were undemocratic.

How about despite the increasingly desperate attempts by the RW media to discredit him with more and more lame stories which do nothing more than expose how scared they are of him.

They really need to get a lot better at playing the politics game.

You have got to be kidding, they’ve just completely taken over one of the two biggest  UK Political parties and within 2 years ensured it will never change back! I’d like a single example of any person or organisation in UK History who has played the politics game better than Momentum.

Entryism has *never* been made to work this well before. Have a look at previous attempts, including Militant who had a pretty good stab at it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entryism#Trotsky’s_%22French_Turn%22

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>(…and this is interesting too: </span><span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>http://www.marxist.net/openturn/historic/index.html)</span>

They can’t replace Corbyn, no-one else has been on the right side of history on every international issue

If they do at least we know it won’t be John Woodcock and Frank Field, my money is on Chris Williamson

I’d never heard of him but judging by his Wikipedia page Williamson should be acceptable to Momentum. However  his seat isn’t exactly safe. Quite a handicap, unless they just Parachute him elsewhere.

outofbreath – did you not follow politics few decades ago?  Momentum is one of many internal labour organisations and no more effective than most.  Labour has not stitched things up for the left wing – they have reinstated and improved its internal democracy.  Labour used to be a bottom up organisation.  Blair changed that and moved it a long way to the right.  What labour propose now is firmly in the democratic socialist european mainstream and is still to the right of where it was years back.  Nothing corbyn wants to do would raise eyebrows in ost european countries.

Frank Feild anyone?  Been in the wrong party for years.

Nothing corbyn wants to do would raise eyebrows in ost european countries.

I think leaving the EU would raise eyebrows in almost every European country.

Momentum is one of many internal labour organisations and no more effective than most.

Momentum has been 100pc effective in achieving an epic result. Maybe all the other organisations have also been 100pc effective at achieving an epic result.

Frank Feild anyone?  Been in the wrong party for years.

In that case Corbyn shouldn’t be Leader.

Spent the weekend with the in-laws in Wallasey

We only talked about politics once & Frank field is seen as a Tory enabler & friend of rees-mogg, his actions supporting the Tories have upset them, I expect it’s a sentiment shared elsewhere

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/asked-merseyside-labour-mp-voted-14923828

Can we just imagine the reaction if Corbyn had fluffed his lines about his objections to apartheid, overseen the near deportation of British citizens, been unable to speak to a room full of people or paid off a raging homophobe and ethical dinosaur in the DUP?

FIeld has has been in the wrong party, true – he is anti bullying. Militant failed to “get him” before but Momentum finished the job now. Revengeful bullying and intimidation has a rich history (in parts of) the party.

“STFU” or we’ll get you

Yes they have done good job with social media, getting new interest etc,. but they have also lost a lot of people who would be better off with a Labour government.  Go and talk to the average voter who should be voting Labour and you will not get a positive view of Corbyn.

Whereas a figure at the front that people like and who was spinning it up with “Make Britain great again” type stuff would get them more.  Nothing needs to change underneath.

Yep, but he didn’t consign this country to economic harm by trying to cement his own position in his own party by asking a stupid question to a stupid electorate and ballsing it up. So ho hum.

I will vote for Corbyn if he is in charge of the Labour Party because that is how I can most hurt the Tories. I will vote for Mr Claypole from rent-a-ghost if he’s running the Labour party as that is how I can most hurt the Tories.

And I was a Tory voter until last time, so insert your own nose-thumbing gif here if you like. I am not the only one.

Field was facing the strong possibility of deselection, wasn’t he? If you’re not going to be an MP after the next election anyhow, why not have a flounce out of the party at the time of maximum impact?

It’s hard not to be cynical about any of these principled resignations.

He should have learnt from the Tory mega flouncers and got a photographer to capture the moment.

Corbyn fluffs his lines constantly on the various anti semitism stories, who did he   meet where stories, anti NATO stories. The only places he puts in a relaxed performance is Press TV and Russia Today

Jennifer Williams at the MEN is doing a good job at exposing the current state of the takeover in Manchester

lame stories which do nothing more than expose how scared they are of him

Sadly I think it has far more of an impact than you give it credit for, far too many people just believe what they read in the paper and vote based on that.

Field was facing the strong possibility of deselection, wasn’t he?

Google says yes, ironically over the EU, an issue where he is completely in tune with his constituents and the Labour leadership. Funny old world:

He said that during his 39 years as an MP he had “always voted to free our country from the tightening stranglehold of the EU” on behalf of working-class Labour voters and that it was important to do so now.

“For most, if not all, of those votes I did so alongside Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell,” he said “It would have been a betrayal of the principles I have held for my entire political life, had I voted against the legislation two weeks ago.”

dannyh wrote:

I will vote for Corbyn if he is in charge of the Labour Party because that is how I can most hurt the Tories.

May’s govt is on a cliff edge and could fall at any time. If an election were called tomorrow, wouldn’t a vote for Labour put them into bat at a difficult time and hurt Labour? Agree that in the unlikely event this govt runs full term a Labour vote would hurt the Tories.

Jennifer Williams at the MEN is doing a good job at exposing the current state of the takeover in Manchester

Is it similar to the current problem the conservatives have with the right extremists infiltrating which has led to warnings being given by Central Office