IMO skills courses let you understand your style of riding. Have heard from many people different things about how you should ride etc, that includes even well known PRO racers from videos.

But oh boy how wrong can you go from all that advice. Better get proper skills course and understand every aspect of your riding, only from that basic core knowledge can you progress further. It would work out the same as building a house on a solid ground, but would you build it on a sand? All advice given by riding buddies isn’t intended to make you worse, but can go so very wrong as some people pointed out. Most people give you advanced tricks etc or something that works for them, but you as a rider without knowing basics just can’t grow in to it.

You may clear jump 6 out of 10 times and think you have iron balls according to your mates) but what happens after your luck runs out?

Skills courses give you understanding of basics and then you will build on that and be consistent to hit that jump 11 out of 10 easy without no fear but with confidence and smoothness.

Many qualified instructors will teach you good skills, obviously they have different styles of how they do it. You just can’t go wrong, but do check them … as some aren’t that good.

That’s what I means about corners being more important. Being able to take corners at speed and float over rough stuff is a lot more useful skill to learn than doing doubles.

geda, your not alone in that. many people want to learn cornering skills as they feel that’s where they lack technique. its a simple fix to jump/drop in comparison 🙂

STW glitches [edit]

I’ve been on a few different skills courses.
The main benefit I got (aside from finally managing to do small drops – thanks Tony!) is that the one-to-one tuition really helps you to analyse how you ride and what you do in certain situations. The number of times I’ve ridden down a trail and wondered why something didn’t feel as smooth as I wanted it to are countless. Skills sessions help you to identify things you are doing wrong so that when you’re riding you can see something coming and use what you’ve learnt to ride it better. They also help you to see where your strengths are, which definitely helps with confidence!

GEDA – step away from the keyboard, you sound like a complete idiot!

Cheviots are full of jumps, drops and steep sketchy riding, as is Sheffield.

Skills sessions help you to identify things you are doing wrong so that when you’re riding you can see something coming and use what you’ve learnt to ride it better.

I think this is the main thing for me. I knew I was doing something wrong but wasn’t really sure what. I think that now I’ll still probably mess up at some point but at least I’ll know why and hopefully next time the same thing won’t happen 🙂

One word, one man, Jedi.

He really is as good as everyone says.

(or his mind control powers are just a bit too powerful)

🙂 My point is not that you can’t find stuff if you look for it. It is that you don’t need to do huge jumps and drops to be fast or skill-full or to have a good time. It is one of the least useful skills for being fast. I have kids to look after so I would rather concentrate on other stuff.

GW – You got some kind of problem? Bit sensitive?

please stop?!!

😥

What?

A big +1 for jedi from me too, but there are negatives!

What tony taught me was not so much technique but a state of mind, confidence & commitment are key. Half arsed or tense approaches nearly always end in pain.
Problem is that as you grow, attempt and master bigger drops and jumps you eventually run out of two things, one terrain, local riding spots become tame and non challenging and then you have to start looking further afield for the next adrenalin kick. The other thing is bike, you realise before long that your previous 100/120/140/160mm of travel isn’t enough and you want to step up to something capable of taking bigger hits so you can search out the next big hit….
Im not sure what ends the cycle but my guess is plaster and an ambulance.

Tony is like a can of red bull, seemingly expensive for what you superficially get – but he really does give you wings!

Highly recommended.

Ian

Ps @ Tony: Demo8 inbound 😉

Can anyone recommend a 1 day training course for less that £250 that can get me fit?

WCA strangely I’ve just set up a one day fitness course for the princely sum of £249. However there is a no money back guarantee.

TSY – If it doesn’t work I will sit on you. does the course include donuts and beer?

Sorry donuts are on the banned substance list.

Course price includes beer, lardy cake, pork scratchings for trail snacks and a hearty fulll english breakfast to start the day. Wouldn’t want anyone running out of energy whilst I spend the day talking you through my theories.

Hia mate,
I have tried a few classes and I think Chris Ball at DirtSchool is your man. He himself is a great trainer, I think it’s down to the individual trainer’s personality, myself. I tripped to Glentress for his one-to-one twice – from Brighton! Chris just seems to know what to say rather than showing you his own magic skills and expecting you to be able to copy him as many trainers do. The DirtSchool DVD is pretty good too, you get an idea of what he does and also it’s good for prep. if you decide to make the trip.

The Southern Yeti – Member

One word, one man, Jedi.

He really is as good as everyone says.

(or his mind control powers are just a bit too powerful)

thanks man 🙂

jedi – ever thought of teaming up with someone called Darth Vader?

He could teach people about road riding*.

*Welcome to the Darkside!

Seriously though GEDA ! What are you smhhooookiin?

It is that you don’t need to do huge jumps and drops to be fast or skill-full or to have a good time. It is one of the least useful skills for being fast.

Your right you dont need to drop or jump to have a good time but I reckon your only saying that as you havent learnt to do it (Yet!!!)

There are loads and loads of au natural trails in places like the Lakes, Peaks etc that feature decent sized drops and jumps in . Yeah you can go round them but having the option and ability to straighten sections out is always faster as is the obvious benefit of keeping all that lovely extra speed into the next bit! Plus dropping a decent sized obstacle onto a nice slope generates LOADS of pace!

As for saying that its the least useful skill I would have to question that? What about being able to double sections up? Gap nasty root or rock bits? Instead of riding right around that nasty looking 4 ft drop what about being able to go straight over it? That is a standard bread n butter technique of advanced trail riding? Not freeriding, not hucking, not DH racing (though it features in all those) but a technique regularly employed by a decent rider on average natural trails. Snowdon? Cut Gate? Most Stuff in the Lakes?

Nick

Before we slate GEDA for being a twunt, he does have a bit of a point. Drops and Jumps are just one part of the skills package that you need to build up and things like riding around a corner quickly is an equally valid skill (and probably used more of the time).

Having said that, boosting off a jump to clear a rocky section while all your mates brake and bounce over it is pretty cool*

*for a shallow minded fat 40+ year old who has only actually managed this once without requiring hospital

GEDA – Member
keyses2 picture is a good example of features you do not ever see outside a trail centre.

Granted you may not see such sculpted features outside a trail centre but I have come across similar shaped features naturally. The majority of my riding is natural rather than trail centres and gaining the skills, through being coached, that enabled me to do the jump in that pic has made a huge difference and improvement in the way i ride my natural local trails. I’ve found that what i have gained from Tony’s coaching applies everywhere i ride.

No your right WCA it isnt the only skill you need and is only useful as part of a broader repertoire, but its still important.

The majority of my riding is natural rather than trail centres and gaining the skills, through being coached, that enabled me to do the jump in that pic has made a huge difference and improvement in the way i ride my natural local trails

Thats exactly what I was trying to say!!!

Natural riding:

Cheviots: Steep yes, need to do big jumps and drop offs no. I would say there are only a few places in the Cheviots where you need those kind of skills unless you decide to ride down the Henhole, Wooler DH track (Never been), Thrunton Crags West side(Not in the Cheviots but I thought I would give you the benefit of the doubt), which I admit has the combination, that freaks me out, of steep and drops, probably be better on a proper dh bike though, and armour and full face. Kidland, DH again so not what I was taking about. I used to ride straight down the steep side of the forest on one of these though: I have found a few drops down some of the gulleys off Windy Gyle but you need to deal with the rough landings just as much as doing the drops themselves.

Peaks. Cut gate.
Maybe my interpretation of rough stuff is your drop offs but the only proper drop I can remember is the one into the gulley going west off the top down into Ladybower which again is more about dealing with a scrappy landing into a ditch than anything else. I suppose there are a few other bits on the other side you can launch off but they are not launching you up in the air so are they really jumps? You are going to be a lot faster going down Cutgate if you are smooth on the rough stuff and can corner well.

Just because I don’t like my wheel getting off the ground does not mean I like going fast. I just dislike the big balls culture that says jumping and drops are where its at.

If you ever are in Sweden or in the Sheffield/Peaks this week I am sure we can have a race to see who is fastest but I admit that I am not going to do any big drops or big jumps.

Luckily I have a five and seven year old so I can excuse myself that I have to make sure I can still earn a crust and can cope with random insults when somebody does not like/agree with what I say.

I have thought about this before as there are some really big drops for me in the woods where I ride, 5 foot drops to steep so you drop maybe 12 feet in total. I thought I would get some skills training and then do them though I had to be honest with myself and weigh up the enjoyment/risk and cost of failure and decided that at the moment I really do not need to go there and can have more fun by trying to lay off the brakes as much as possible on the steep bits, get fitter, learn to manual, and loosen myself up a bit.

well fair one mate wasnt having a proper dig havent ever been to the Cheviots except to Hamsterley Forest is that the region?

Though I would defo be up for a race? I take it you live in Sweden but are over here for the mo? I would be up for a race this weekend coming if you want, before you head back its no problem for me to head back up north I lived in Buxton for 4 years so I could use it as an excuse to catchup with some mates!

Something steep though I dont want a pedal fest.

In terms of when you say that you dont want to hurt yourself learning to do bigger drops I can see where you coming from but to be honest cocking it up whilst going really quick is going to be much worse than dropping a straightforward medium sized drop? 😀

Just be aware that there might not be an instant fix that turns you from a wheels on the ground rider , to a wheels off the ground air demon.
I couldnt jump, same as the OP, same age and probable skill level ( I have not ridden with OP so i am guessing ) .

3 skills courses later , still cant jump, drop, manual, pump,wheelie , ride steeps.
There are limits to what everyone can achieve. I have no balls so i still cant jump etc. I cant work if i even break a finger , so thats in the back of mind. Plus Im afraid of pain and look to the danger of it going wrong and hurting like a hurty thing . Then there is natural ability or talent. Training will get you so far , and practise will help , but everyone has a limit and there will always be things that are just not possible , in every sport .
It is fustrating as jumps and drops are built into some trail centers and speed amd flow is maintained by popping over/off them . Unfortunatly its always the chicken run for me
Another fustration is seeing others ‘session’ jumps and drops. Great fun for those that can , not so for those that can’t.

Coaching is a valuable tool , but its not the be all and end all to riding . most people can ride before they go on a skills day, and would still be able to ride if they hadn’t been on one. Alot of people will never go on one (let alone 3) and they can still go out and enjoy riding all over the country.

You weren’t meant to say yes!

And just before someone slags me off just because I can’t do jumps and drops here are some of the stuff I am comfortable doing on my usual ride. Nothing big, my heels should be down but both wheels are off the ground.

But I love the Cheviots doing stuff like this:

jumping/drops is actually not that hard. riding is about enjoying your leisure time.
finding where your are happy is more important than what you do.

Singletrackmind it sounds either … you didn’t want to listen and understand your coach, OR your coach was pretty much useless at teaching or comunicating to you.

Take for example average overweight 40+ man, who was shocked when I suggested to ride public staircase in some area and his average idea about MTB would be as gnarly as going down fireroad in Swinley Forest.

Eventually I somehow managed to take him to Afan ride Y Wall trail, here is the proof of his excellence Video1, then after a bit of teaching here how he progressed Video2 and finally the man easily rode Video3 Black graded trails and all techy feautures in CYB with no fuss whatsoever.

Obviously I am not Jedi, but his influence on me proved that just about anyone can be taught riding bikes. To some it takes 4 hours and some other peeps take days/weeks to learn basic core skills. From there on, you are welcomed to spread Jedi religion.

I ALWAYS say yes!!!! But I dont always win! 😀

Fair play mate, perhaps next time your back we could have a friendly race for cake? In the Cheviots they look sweet!

Those drops are a decent size you painted a picture of a rider who was firmly planted rubber side down!!!!! You look like you have them nailed though you might want to work on your gurn in the second pic! 😉

Ok, been away from the keyboard and just wanted to give a big thank you to everyone for their help, I shall be looking at all the links.
I am sorry if started any arguments, I mentioned jumps and drops as they are something I cannot do – mostly nerve but also skill – I have no wish to be doing 2 metre dropoffs and I want to learn how to go faster both au natural and at centres. Speed over rough ground and cornering is going to be another course …

Alverston park is a def iain1775, I shall take my small boy along as cover ……

So thanks all and see you out there

Singletrackmind it sounds either … you didn’t want to listen and understand your coach, OR your coach was pretty much useless at teaching or comunicating to you.

Yes , you are probably right . Old dogs etc.

All 3 coach’s were hard to understand . I didn’t want to listen to any of them, despite handing over my hard earned cash and taking days off work specifically . All 3 of them were pretty much useless at teaching , because thats what they do for a living, plus i am divvy so find it hard to follow step by step instruction with demonstrations.

I was trying to put across that for some people its not an easy thing learning a new skill , or having the self confidence and belief that you will not die if you attempt a jump or drop off.

I did a training day with Bob at Llandegla & got a lot out of it.

It was basic riding skills as well as tackling drop offs & we got started on jumps but ran out of time.

Problem was, I didn’t practice what I learnt often enough and have lost what I learnt to a certain extent.
My fault entirely & just a case of not having enough time to get out & mess around.

I think it’s all too easy for those experienced at riding bigger drops to underestimate how hard even seemingly small drops can be for some riders. I grew up riding BMXs and MTBs in the ’80s and loved it but I was neither naturally gifted nor fearless and lived in one of the least gnarly counties in England. Anyway following a long theft-induced MTB sabbatical I started riding again in mid ’09. Early in ’10 I found an excellent posse of local riders who like to ride more interesting stuff than my local area provides naturally which thus fired me up to develop jumping and drop technique. I guess I’m ok up to about 2′ drops, or at least I was… Looking at the drops GEDA’s shown above they’re much bigger than that in total fall and I suspect many MTBers would be scared of them. Of course many wouldn’t either but that isn’t the point! For those intimidated by big (aka small) drops, skills coaching would appear to be a fine way to develop flow down trails with drops. I’m good at teaching myself from books and Mastering Mountain Bike Skills has hugely helped but it’s hard to self-assess your riding accurately.

In a couple of months time I’m going to have the uphill battle of rebuilding my strength, fitness and belief having recently broken my ankle on the bike doing something very boring (cycling uphill less than two minutes from home – bloody ice!) I do know that I’m going to have to get my technique absolutely rock solid before dropping off anything much bigger than a kerb because I am so scared of breaking myself again. The crazy thing is that whilst I could still ride (he looks back wistfully to last week…) if you made every 4′ drop look like a 2′ drop I’d ride it just fine – tidy technique, pretty relaxed. But show me the real height and my confidence would fail and in tightening up my skills would go out of the window.

[video]http://vimeo.com/15098401[/video]

good video, unfortunately he is dead right ….

Nice vid Tony, some good points in there re speed control concentration and commitment. Start small folks and build up, good technique is essential and this can be developed in a safe progressive environment – start small and work your way up with height and distance. I should emphasize it is essential that you can perform a proper American style bunny hop (lifting each wheel interdependently) to jump correctly, that of course includes being able to perform the opening maneuver, a manual. Build your foundations and the rest will flow as will your control and concentration, all elements improve side by side, you will inevitably build you confidence and soon you will commit to trail features. Not to detract from what Tony does but lets make it clear, there are more of us out there who teach in a progressive fashion than you may think. I would recommend Tony UK Bike Skills, Bob at Campbell coaching and Rich Kelly from All Biked Up in the Surrey hills, the creme de la creme of the CTC trained line up, if you fancy a trip to some real mountain bike trails then were based in the Scottish Borders. Clive – http://www.mtbskills.eu All the best and happy riding.

As above. Choosing the right provider can vastly increase the riders skill levels and confidence.

Getting the basics sorted, is of paramount importance, as is assessing each individual.

MBI approved coaches http://www.mountainbikeskillscourses coach from basics to advanced levels. Please see link below Leon MacLean (MBI Appoved Coach) out riding for fun, not coaching :o) There are a lot of good mountain bikers out there. However, a top coach is I feel, harder to find.

http://www.youtube.com/user/scurfhardtv#p/a/u/2/LJm0XVsVPAI

Very true Ray … oddly, the best rider in the world won’t always make the best coach / instructor.

As I think someone said earlier. Getting the basics sorted is like building a house with good foundations, it enables you to progress. These basics are often the areas which make the biggest difference to peoples everyday riding, they’re also the bits which are easily overlooked. Change a few little bits and the positive difference can be quite dramatic.

When you’re riding nothing exists on its own, riding a drop without the ability to control the bike afterwards (perhaps braking, cornering, etc may be required) may still result in a crash. If someone asks for a days instruction in riding drops, we don’t go marching up to the drops straight away. There’s a build up of skills and techniques (mental and physical) to get them there … if there wasn’t then every instructor could just hand out the MTFU speach and leave you to it 😉