Very long story short – I had an interview for an internal promotion in November last year and received a job offer before Christmas which was below expectations. I negotiated a ~6% increase (which was signed off by the department head, hiring manager, HR etc) and this upgraded offer was formally accepted in the new year.

Was due to start the role at the end of last month, but had been chasing a formal contract (wanting everything to be in place before I started) and when nothing was forthcoming was told that the department head’s boss think’s I’m great for the role but they’ve offered too much and wants to reduce the newly agreed salary by 10% – taking it below even the original offer. His further justification is that as a high performer, he wants to ensure I have a proper mentor going forward (something they’ve not bothered to give me in the last 5 years or so – thankfully I have a strong informal network). The company has just sponsored me through some pretty expensive training, and I feel he may be subtly using this as leverage too.

I suppose the question is do I take the hit and feel chuffed that they see potential in me and try and take advantage of that later down the line, or do I stick to my guns? I’m reluctant to go down the breach of contract route as that won’t end with either of us feeling good about life.

edit: To add a bit of flavour, the people I would be supervising in the new role would be paid about 10% less than me if I took the new offer, with 7 years less experience – to me this seems wrong.

I suppose the question is do I take the hit and feel chuffed that they see potential in me and try and take advantage of that later down the line,buy their bullshit or do I stick to my guns?

If they think you’re good, they should pay you what you’re worth.

Hang on, just seen the higher offer had been formally accepted by everyone. Definitely stick to your guns. You all agreed that you’d do the job for the agreed salary. If they won’t pay that salary, don’t do the job.

+1 for what IHN said. It’s pretty simple. Your employer made you an offer (I assume you have it in writing somewhere) and you accepted it. They should stand by their offer.

The stuff about mentoring, training etc is all very nice but it’s not going to put ££££ in your bank account each month (and to be frank it’s the level of support I’d expect pretty much any business to offer).

Stand your ground, be nice about it but be firm. This is an opportunity to demonstrate leadership, negotiation and assertiveness skills. This is not an opportunity to lay down and be a door mat unless that’s how you want to be perceived by your managers in the future.

The company has just sponsored me through some pretty expensive training, and I feel he may be subtly using this as leverage too.

I would suggest that the above is to your advantage, otherwise that money would have been spaffed up the wall. Perhaps he is trying to test your resolve . Stick to your guns

I would stick to your guns for a while. It has been formally agreed.

If this doesn’t work, then maybe negotiate something like a 6 month trial at the 10% reduction and an increase after this period, if you are performing well?

I agree with IHN – it was agreed with dept head. And more importantly HR agreed. Politely but firmly remind them of this.

Seems that’s it’s your boss’s problem, and he’s annoyed *his manager*

I’d be all for being blunt, but you have to work with these folk afterwards!

If you really want to give ground then ask for a contract stating that you’ll get the initial offer now (which must have been approved), and the higher amount immediately the new budget year starts (whenever that is in your company) so giving your boss time to find the money in the next budget.

But bear you’re giving up a pay rise there too so the impact will roll forward into the future years too.

So I’m with sticking politely to the agreement as much as possible, since HR & recruiting sign off too

Definitely stick to your guns. You all agreed that you’d do the job for the agreed salary. If they won’t pay that salary, don’t do the job.

Start looking for a new job, trust in the senior manglement has just been torpedoed below the water line. If you get the originally agreed salary the senior boss is going to be looking for your scalp.

The stuff about mentoring, training etc is all very nice but it’s not going to put ££££ in your bank account each month (and to be frank it’s the level of support I’d expect pretty much any business to offer).

Exactly, they should do this anyway.

The former MrsIHN was once in a position where she’d been offered job by another company, but was willing to stay where she was if they’d match the offered salary. They said they wouldn’t do that, but they would let her change her job title to whatever she wanted. She thanked them for insulting her intelligence and handed in her notice.

counter-offer. 10% over…

“10 % cut? No problem, which day would you like me to work until lunch time?”

If you accept the lower offer now and accept that you’re worth 90% of previously agreed, how long will it take you to “earn” that 10% back? And it’s actually an 11.1% increase on the lower salary.

counter-offer. 10% over…

I like your style.

Thanks all, good to see there’s a consensus. I flit between being thoroughly pissed off and worrying I’m being an ungrateful millenial. Definitely going to stick to my guns.

Agreed on the mentorship – it feels like hot air to me and a joke that he’s bringing that up now and not years ago (a number of former informal mentors have “decided to pursue other opportunitites” over the years, which I have this guy to thank for). It’s also definitely not a budget issue, and tbh the higher offer is the least they can do to bring me in line with higer paid TUPE types who we’ve inherited recently (along with all the other issues that brings).

I think this is pretty clear cut (not often the case with employment law!)

“Once a term such as annual salary is increased by an implied (oral) agreement, then any subsequent withholding of the extra pay is not only a breach of contract, enabling the employee to sue for recovery, but also an unlawful deduction of wages properly due and payable. Because each month when the additional element of salary is unpaid, this constitutes a breach of the statutory right not to suffer deductions from salary, which are properly due and payable.”

One caveat they may try is if the offer was made by mistake (e.g. they sent you a letter which was meant for someone else) but doesn’t sound like the case here

Is there a clawback for the training if you leave within a certain amount of time?

Classic trick:

Can’t afford to give a pay rose, give a title and responsibility raise instead. Most fall for it, are happy and end up with twice the responsibility, in addition to longer hours.

If you are early in your career and the co / role is growing all good. You can leverage the skills within Conor externally at later date. If you are mid-end career / with family it’s a major con.

Did you agree to the offer and have evidence of this?

If so it sounds like straightforward breach of contract. Flipping it around, if you accepted the offer then demanded a 10% increase because you’d changed your mind how far do think you’d get legally?

reduce the newly agreed salary by 10% – taking it below even the original offer.

I wonder if they expect to “settle” on the original amount.

Honestly, if they’re playing stupid games after agreeing to a salary, I’d be looking to jump ship.

Definitely suggest that you now want more money for being pissed about.

I’ve done this with clients when they’ve tried chipping me on price, always done with a smile but it has actually worked on occasion :-).

To be honest if that was the company that I worked for I’d be pissed off and let them know in polite terms.  They are eroding goodwill of a member of staff that it appears they appreciate.  It might be that once this is made clear they might rethink and double your salary (may be not but you can but hope).

A word with HR to discuss where you stand might be in order, and it will also get a message back to your head of department.

Why they think investing in their business, ie you, should come out of your pocket is beyond me. Many companies think like this, which in turn makes employees look at options elsewhere, thus the company losing that investment eventually, when the contractual cuffs come off.

Well at least you know where you stand with the company – as in they think you have the skills they want, just they are not prepared to pay for it.

Politely suggest they refer to the agreed agreement.

Next question is, can you find the job you want elsewhere on the higher salary ? If not its a case of lumping it at the moment.

Is it accountancy by any chance?

Looking at it from the other side, If I was speaking to someone to try to negociate a previously agreed offer down, I be asking myself what affect that would have on motivation and attitude. Currently you are a high performer in thier own words.

And why would someone 5 years in, and a ‘high performer’ need a mentor? Doesn’t stack up.

And why would someone 5 years in, and a ‘high performer’ need a mentor? Doesn’t stack up.

If his moniker is anything to go by I have a fair idea what he’s doing and what he has been doing.

He probably needs a mentor if he’s spent years in the field and is now progressing into the business side of things. You need the technical background first and foremost but you need brought up to speed on business side -quotes/contracts/managerial skills

Also what he is experiancing is quite coming if it’s the industry I think he is in….. It happened to me when I came back from an international posting and they wanted me back out in Africa as it’s hard to find folk who survive long term out there (id been there for 7 years on and off) They basically made my UK job unavailable after the offer when a new manager came in. I stuck to my guns and said very good but I’m not going back to Africa so I guess I’ll be taking that redundancy you have placed me under. …..btw I have it in writing your honouring my continuous service

I’m still here. That manager is not.

As a high performer I’d be insisting that they honoured the offer or be pursuing other opportunities. Assuming, of course that there is a discrepancy between market rate and what they have offered.

If you accept the situation OP you will be a doormat for the rest of your career at that place.

I suppose the question is do I take the hit and feel chuffed that they see potential in me and try and take advantage of that later down the line

Ha ha, bullshit detector is going off the scale.

+1 for what IHN said. It’s pretty simple. Your employer made you an offer (I assume you have it in writing somewhere) and you accepted it. They should stand by their offer.

Entirely this.

If this doesn’t work, then maybe negotiate something like a 6 month trial at the 10% reduction and an increase after this period, if you are performing well?

Jesus no.

If this doesn’t work, then maybe negotiate something like a 6 month trial at the 10% reduction and an increase after this period, if you are performing well?

I’ve had this suggested to me by someone in the business, but expect this will probably lead to being supressed for longer. Job reviews always seem to coincide with lulls or tough times in the business, funny that.

(I assume you have it in writing somewhere)

Yep, two emails with two salaries, both higher than this new revision!

If his moniker is anything to go by I have a fair idea what he’s doing and what he has been doing.

Right industry, wrong trajectory. I’ve done things a little backwards thanks to the help of consultants largely doing the fieldwork.

Next question is, can you find the job you want elsewhere on the higher salary ? If not its a case of lumping it at the moment.

Not in this country unless I move to London or become a mercenary type.

If this doesn’t work, then maybe negotiate something like a 6 month trial at the 10% reduction and an increase after this period, if you are performing well?

Yeah. No.

I might consider that for a company I was brand new to – but not after an offer, and definitely not for a company I’d been at for a while.

edit: To add a bit of flavour, the people I would be supervising in the new role would be paid about 10% less than me if I took the new offer, with 7 years less experience – to me this seems wrong.

Consider that possibly your new manager is saying exactly the same thing, and that’s how this has come about.

they would let her change her job title to whatever she wanted.

Anything she wanted? I’d have taken that. “Yes, I’d like you to change it to ‘My Boss Is A Prick’ please.”

Prestige is a way of getting people to do more work for less money. You boss is playing games. At least you know a little more about his character.

I sometimes get to this point after 2-3 years with a company: if they’re happy with you, then your bonus (if you have one) is reward for past performance. Your salary increase (if you have one) is an indication of desired future performance. Obviously this is dependent on the company’s situation, and yours.

I say this because in the past I’ve been in a similar situation to you, and the guys I was working for stitched me up so neatly I actually changed careers rather than carry on working for them.

I’d suggest: stand your ground, see if there are other opportunities elsewhere, because what’s just happened is a glimpse of a potentially abusive workplace.

Sounds like the OP’s boss is a dick that doesn’t know how to manage people, paying the agreed 10% rise would be far cheaper than the impact of losing them.

How far you challenge it would depend, for me at least, in how strong a position you are in in terms of finding another job. Whilst you would have a clear case for breach of contract if your boss didn’t reconsider rescinding the offer I can him taking it personally and you end up being managed out (it’s harder to prove a constructive dismissal case unless the company are stupid in how they do it).

So I’d certainly say you find the withdrawal of the offer very unprofessional and ask for the decision to be reviewed (including your boss’ boss if needed) but if you’re unlikely to find another job easily in the current climate it would take some balls to start a breach of contract claim if they stuck to their guns.

was told that the department head’s boss think’s I’m great

ask him if he will mind you using him as reference then – you’re not actually going to stay and work for someone who operates like this are you?

I’d ask them how they’d feel if you revised your offer…

Long n short is I’d not accept it and if was forced to my cv would be online by 10am that day

Take your expensive training and go and get a job elsewhere, they sound like arseholes.

Plus millenials are supposed to change jobs a lot 😉

I’ve had this suggested to me by someone in the business, but expect this will probably lead to being supressed for longer. Job reviews always seem to coincide with lulls or tough times in the business, funny that.

You can get over this by having agreed, measurable goals that aren’t in any way subjective written into the contract. In effect “if i do x and y, on 1st May salary increases to £xxk”, or even better “salary to increase to £xxk on 1st May unless X and Y has happened”. That way it’s not a new contract, it’s a clause in an existing one that kicks in automatically.

I think you’re right to feel annoyed and I too would be reluctant to take anything bar the higher offer but do bear in mind that (by the sounds of it) you don’t want to move jobs or move to London. You need a backup position if they won’t negotiate that at all.

I suppose the question is do I take the hit and feel chuffed that they see potential in me and try and take advantage of that later down the line, or do I stick to my guns?

Blowing smoke up your arse and telling you about all the “development” they’re going to give you is fine, but using that as a stick to beat your salary expectations down is frankly just shabby…

If something has been agreed (formally) and put into process, reneging on that agreement at the whim of a more senior manager would make me question the whole organisation: Are people taking decisions they lack the authority to? Or is someone just throwing their weight about because they can and being seen to keep salary expectations low is a “Baller move” in certain circles…

Nah, TBH I’ve been in that sort of organisation…
“Managers” on substantially higher wages quibbling over 4-5% when they know they need to retain an employee whose just had a +15% offer from elsewhere… And you can guarantee they’ll just go shopping for an shiny new Grad, pay them pennies and throw them in at the deep end. The ****!

After watching several very able colleagues leave for greener pastures, I took the plunge and did the same and you know what, it was all much, much better…

I’d look at how you get out.
It’s hugely satisfying pre-emptively turning down the “Counter-offer” you know will fall short of what your future employer has offered you to do a more interesting job…

I’ve skimmed the thread so this may have been discussed, but it sounds like they have someone else waiting if you turn them down.
What are you going to do if you say no?

Did you not get the memo? Apparently you’ve got to be thankful for having a job during 2020/21 so just suck it up. That’s what everyone keeps telling me anyway

On a serious note, stick to your guns or walk away.

Update:

Stood my ground and laid down my argument – one week on it’s all sorted and I start the role next week.

Thanks all for your input.