…..the opinions of outsiders on the subject of N.I and our troubles.

Well that’s the whole point – it was never “your” troubles. And Brits are anything but “outsiders”. Britain has, and always has had, direct responsibility for the situation in NI. And British public opinion has always been absolutely crucial with regards to the behaviour of British governments.

Sadly too often and for too long British public opinion was hugely uninterested in the situation in NI which resulted in consecutive British governments following policies which did little in improving the situation.

I remember at the height of the Troubles a poster which depicted a map of the British Isles in which Northern Ireland had a mouth on its east coast that was speaking to the UK, the UK had a huge ear on its west coast in which was firmly placed a very large bottle cork, the slogan on the post said “the UK isn’t listening” which nicely summed up the situation imo.

ninfan – Member

Continually crying foul over, for example, the Loughall ambush or Gibraltar killings, whilst in the same breath defending the murder of Airey Neave, Mountbatten, or the Deal or Hyde park troop bombings as legitimate targets is just ridiculous though

There’s a few things going on there though. First of all, well, that’s one of the plus sides of being a terrorist isn’t it, you don’t need to worry about the moral highground, a state has to be held to a higher standard than a terrorist. So it’s not an even playing field at all. There’s no moral equivilance.

Second… There’s the old “work with the system you have while trying to change it”- it’s reasonable to be in favour of a full amnesty/truth and reconciliation approach, while at the same time saying “but we don’t have that so we’ll act accordingly. It even becomes a legitimate persuasion tactic- if you can make the lack of an amnesty sufficiently difficult for the other side, they’re more likely to offer it.

ernie_lynch – Member
“the UK isn’t listening”

you could debate whether it wasn’t listening, or that information was carefully managed.

He’s to be released shortly.

I heard Peter hain is calling for the arrest of the Paras that killed all those unarmed civilisns on Bloody Sunday. If true, things are getting interesting.

There’s a few things going on there though. First of all, well, that’s one of the plus sides of being a terrorist isn’t it, you don’t need to worry about the moral highground

You forget, the IRA were not terrorists, they were a legitimate army fighting a legitimate campaign and only attacking legitimate military targets.

At Loughhall they were engaged in an open armed attack, at Gibraltar in preparatory acts for an attack (despite not identifying themselves as such and therefore carrying no right to combatant status) – according to their own claims they were combatants under the Geneva Conventions and thus legitimate military targets themselves.

They can’t ride both ponies!

I heard Peter hain is calling for the arrest of

What, he thinks that people should just be arrested for the sake of it despite there not being any new evidence? Just a couple of weeks ago he was saying there should be no more prosecutions at all, now he wants tit for tat arrests just to send the right ‘message’?

Funny that he doesn’t appear to be calling for the reinvestigation of certain unsolved bank robberies though…

Thankfully there is plenty of evidence to convict the Paras – hopefully we’ll get justice for this massacre at least.

hopefully we’ll get justice

we?

Yes “we”, the common man in the street who supports the rule of law and likes to see justice prevail.

ninfan – Member

You forget, the IRA were not terrorists, they were a legitimate army fighting a legitimate campaign and only attacking legitimate military targets.

No, I just ignore things that are total bollocks.

ninfan – Member
You forget, the IRA were not terrorists, they were a legitimate army fighting a legitimate campaign and only attacking legitimate military targets.

Tell that to the people of Warrington.

Amongst nearly 2000 civilian killed by PIRA. Maybe they forgot who they were at war with.

Yes “we”, the common man in the street who supports the rule of law and likes to see justice prevail.

Indeed. We would apply the same justice to both sides.

Murder is murder, even if you support one particular murderer. Or does your “we” only see justice for one side?

If there were murderers on either side, let justice prevail. If those murderers are now politicians, so be it.

100% agree. Murder is murder – i have declared support for no one

So, would you agree that

nearly 2000 civilian killed by PIRA.

is also a massacre?

Absolutely – is that a problem?

If there were murderers on either side, let justice prevail. If those murderers are now politicians, so be it.

Would you forego peace for your desire for justice?

None at all, just wanted to know your standpoint! Which is pretty much spot on for me!

Cool – so we are agreed Murder is murder, wether committed by a freedom fighter, terrorist or a British Soldier. I feel progress has been made tonight 🙂

Just been driven off in a volvo.let the trouble now begin

Why what’s wrong with a Volvo ?

craigxxl – Member
Amongst nearly 2000 civilian killed by PIRA. Maybe they forgot who they were at war with.

quite a loose definition of term “civilian” you seem to be using there! 😆

So, its OK for the British Government to send soldiers who too part in Bloody Sunday to court to be tried but its not OK to do the same to Adams for his wrong doings?

There’s more blood on that mans hands than all the Bloody Sunday soldiers hands 10 times over, if what they did was wrong in the courts eyes that is….

ernie_lynch – Member
Why what’s wrong with a Volvo ?

press conference starting now on bbc news 24.

Yeah in Gaelic. Doesn’t he know that the official language in NI is English ?

EDIT : Now in English 🙄

How DARE he speak Irish.

Good point 33tango…….perhaps that’s what this thread needs – people to post in Gaelic. That would be constructive, wouldn’t it ?

Whats This forum got to do with Gerry Adams speaking Irish?

You’re posting about it?

What do you mean?

You’re posting on this forum, about Gerry Adams speaking Irish, are you not?

You made the point “How DARE he speak Irish” I assumed you thought that speaking Gaelic to an English speaking audience is a good idea. Did I get that wrong then ?

Speaking Irish is not a crime AFAIK. He is a grown man and speak whatever language he wants.

Anyway it’s all fairly academic as most of the press conference has been in English and all the questions and answers are in English. Speaking Gaelic was obviously just tokenism to impress people.

Or for ppl to try and cause an argument 😉

Speaking Irish is not a crime AFAIK.

And someone said it was ? 😆

He is a grown man and speak whatever language he wants.

Of course he can. He could give a press conference in Chinese, if he can speak it. But would you not expect people to challenge the usefulness of doing so ?

Not a crime but your reaction was one of horror! I just wanted to clarify it that he is perfectly entitled to speak it. Wether or not it is useful to you is a moot point 🙂

good statement and answers I thought. very much still focused on peace.

It’s a bit like using mystery initials and codewords to describe people in a STW thread.