Some berms I go round allow me to keep my pedals horizontal, so as always, depends on the terrain

It’s not to do with the terrain as such (For pedal/ground clearance) but about finding more grip to go faster. Motorcycle racers do a similar thing by weighting the outside peg, it’s a well proven 2-wheeled technique. But it does feel very foreign and odd when you first try it, I’ll give you that. 🙂

PP – if you’re referring to road bike racers, they don’t have a berm to support them going round. So they must keep the wait on the outside, so their tyres give the best grip.

But you can also load up the tyres and drop your CofG without dropping your foot…

Some corners you can just ride round without switching your feet about all over the place.

You can still weight the pedals without switching your feet

Foot dropping: I find this helps tip the bike without tipping the body, because the inside thigh doesn’t entangle with the saddle and the inside foot is raised and almost unweighted. When I don’t do this, I’m inclined (pun) to lean with the bike and weight the inside a bit, sometimes enough to slip the tyres. Foot dropping/tipping works lovely on longer flat turns, but it’s surely not “the technique” for all turns.

PP: I’m interested to learn what is wrong the the “attack” position (I prefer to think of it as the “Ready” position)?

Even the best riders get instructor training from more experienced trainers. There is a network. So – even the best known skills trainers have incorporated ideas about coaching from other coaches.

I use the feet-switching technique specifically for switchbacks. If you have your outside foot forward on the approach to a switchback, this sets the hips pointing into the corner and makes the whole thing a LOT easier (IME). In most cases I agree that outside down IN the corner itself works best.

Feet-switching is far from mandatory though, and many argue that it’s too much to think about.

Instructors will also have much to learn from riders who aren’t qualified/famous people…

There are many riders who would be of equal skill level (if not higher) than the ‘instructors’.

Personally, I wouldn’t want someone trying to change my riding style – mine works for me, and has done ever since throwing a leg over the top tube years ago… 🙂

Having said that, I do have high regard for coaches who take the time to help those who feel their skills could be developed more.

PP: I’m interested to learn what is wrong the the “attack” position (I prefer to think of it as the “Ready” position)?

A well worn debate, often turning into ranting! FWIW, I also prefer a term like “ready” to a word like “attack” – I know it is only a name, but if you are talking to a novice rider who is open minded it isn’t helpful to imply that the trail is the enemy!

The two schools, in relation to “attack” position, are those that like head and torso somewhat forward, elbows out and pre-loading the fork – versus the other school which prefers relaxed back into the middle of the bike, wrists and heels down with neutral weight on the ‘bars. In the second model you ride the bike with foot-weight much more. Both these clearly do work – it’s just that the latter technique is better for more people more of the time (in our experience).

Looking where you want to go, ’round’ the corners is the biggie IMO.

Everyone here probably does this automatically – it’s fundamental and something you learn as a beginner. But the difference between not doing this, when you’re starting out in the sport, and doing it is night and day.

EDIT, crossed posts
I see you’re perfect and don’t need to learn and would rather pick out odd words in my sentences in an effort to appear better.

FFS! where did I say I was perfect? or don’t need to learn anything? or want to appear better? I’m simply trying to make you see how flawed your advice has been.

What context would you like me to put foreward for you to argue with next?

doesn’t sound like you understood the meaning of the word “context”? (in the context I used it in ;)) let me try to help.. whatever you ride you’ll very rarely find corners/features on trails exactly the same as each other and to find the best/fastest/safest way through you can simply choose to blinkerdly say something like “oh.. I read on a forum that Oustide foot should be DOWN, inside UP…. not forward and back.” and go with that. or you can actually go out and find the best way for you. learning involves thinking, planning, practice, comitment and often trial and error. You can do this on your own itl you are happy with the results, more scientifically with timing equipment or even video or through a coach/helper. I’m absolutely fine with all the choices available – Not sure why you seem to think I’m not TBH 😕

There are many riders who would be of equal skill level (if not higher) than the ‘instructors’.

Very true. A great many riders would be faster than me, and have more tricks. But teaching riding is completely different.

PP – if you’re referring to road bike racers, they don’t have a berm to support them going round. So they must keep the wait on the outside, so their tyres give the best grip.

MTB trails don’t have berms on every corner you know! 🙂
Look what an MX racer does too: Inside foot off the peg near the front wheel (to prop the bike up in a slide) weight foreward over the front wheel (To give front wheel grip and counter wheelies) and the outside foot weighting the footpeg.
As they are going slower than a track bike, centrifugal force doesn’t come into play as much (Which is partly why track racers lean off the inside of the bike and MXers keep more vertical in relation to their bike) so they lay the bike over and keep their bodies closer to vertical, which also adds weight to the outside peg. This adds weight (so it follows more grip) to the tyres. An MTB differs becasue we lack the power (Engine) so we won’t be picking the front wheel up from the cornerapex like an MXer will do, so we don’t need to chuck as much weight forwards, but the principal is otherwise the same: Weighting the outside to add grip means you can carry more speed, berm or no berm! 🙂

you can still weight the outside of a mtb without dropping your outside foot or lifting your inside foot off and if done well it’ll can be quite a bit quicker to get the next pedal stroke in. power wheelie out making Bbbbrrraaapppp!! noises if you want! 😉

Sounds like PP might benefit from a coaching course, paying particular attention to cornering… 😉

😆

and go with that. or you can actually go out and find the best way for you

But what if there’s a better way that just feels wrong? Yes if you’re happy to say as you are that’s great, no problem there. But personally I’m always open to new ideas. My brake set up and riding stye were changed fir me at the weekend. It felt very odd at first but I worked at it because that was what I was there for. I was out last night and although it wasn’t the sort of ride I could practice too much on, things were definitely better, so I’ll carry on.

And to be hitting a decent sized drop into a dowhill bermed corner without even thinking about it on Saturday was a brilliant feeling. There’s a vid on Jedis blog if you want to see what I mean. 🙂

PP: I’m interested to learn what is wrong the the “attack” position

I never passed comment on it. I just giggled. It’s the wording: Why do you want to attack everything? Sounds like MBUK/WMB/MBR buzzword bingo to me! 😉

Sounds like PP might benefit from a coaching course, paying particular attention to cornering

I wanna get a bit more airborne next time. And something steeper. 🙂

Just because someone ‘recommends’ you do something, as they think it’s a better way – does not necessarily mean it is right for you.

What you could do, and this won’t cost you a penny – next time you go for a ride, adjust the levers angle, lever reach, stem height (if you have spacers to move around), seat position, post height, etc. You may find half way round the ride, you’re new lever reach feels more comfortable (read: more in control).

You shouldn’t need someone else to tell you how to configure the bike to your personal settings…

When I build up a bike, I spend at least an hour or two messing around with the setup….

But what if there’s a better way that just feels wrong?

if you want to progress to riding better/faster/whatever sometimes you might need to get used to it “feeling wrong” first. It shouldn’t really be a big deal for someone so “open to new ideas” as yourself 😉

Looking where you want to go, ’round’ the corners is the biggie IMO.

Until I did a skills course I never looked more than a few metres, if that, in front of me. Amazing the difference it makes when you’re not focused on all the little bumps!

an hour or two Xiphon? I generally build any new bike to within my preferred set-up straight away but many small tweaks/adjustments may be made over the following weeks/years. remember the rider changes over time too 😉

Honestly, yes – an hour or two riding round the local woods making minor adjustments (moving in the lever by a mm or two) – and that’s it. The only thing which changes regularly is the seat post height.

When I read that post the other day about the whole wrists bent and changing the angle of your brakes thing, I did wonder just how many people would go off and adjust the setup of their bikes that they have been happy with for years, because some bloke off the internet told some other bloke off the internet to do it.

I run my brakes really quite far towards the vertical; always have done and always will. It works for me and I know a lot of other people who have the same setup, and none of them are what I would call shoddy riders or in need of a training course to be able to jump a 6′ gap. Am I going to change my setup because some bloke off the Internet who felt the need to go on a training course to do a drop off told me to? Nope. And that’s no disrespect to Tony (as I’m sure he knows), as he is helping a lot of people to ride more confidently.

proper technique

is an emotive phrase. There are a set of techniques that can be used to increase a riders speed, on a particular bike, round a particular type of corner, over a particular trail feature, etc. I can’t really see why they wouldn’t work for everyone.

So the answer to my original question is “no” – there doesn’t seem to be a consensus

And that makes sense. Sometimes I switch my feet, when it feels right. Sometimes I don’t! Even for the same corner, in like conditions.

Mind you I’m not exactly an arbiter of good technique.

Blimey, lucky we all have so much in common and get on so well. Time for folk to get out for a ride I think!

mickfairestcyclingcoach.co.ukthis guy is really good: mickfairestcyclingcoach.co.uk

far better than I appear to be at posting links

“In the second model you ride the bike with foot-weight much more.”

That’s what I’ve been working on with my physical game. Really focussing on balancing and pushing through with the feet like a skiier. Stu picked up on my tendency to not keep feet level but drop my back foot, esp when anxious. And since working on this aspect I’ve felt more confident.

All skills are progressive – when you learn something you don’t necessarily learn the ‘ultimate’ way of doing it to start with but learn techniques that give you the ‘feel’. Once you’ve got the feel – once you know what you’re trying to achieve – you can get that in different ways. Skiing’s the same – techniques you’re taught as week 1 beginner are still used at advance level but not in the same way.

You can weight a bike without dropping your pedals but it’s s damn sight easier if you do. Look at really fast pro riders and there are times they’re not but theres still a lot of ‘body english’ going on.

PP, try riding a tight corner/switchback with outside FORWARD on approach before putting it DOWN for the apex. You don’t have to do this, but it helps… a lot!

Yes he’s right about that (the help bit) for two reasons, the first being that if you are on the “low” side of speed at the apex, it gives you the little extra help to keep you rolling (the slower you go the more helpful it is), the second has to do indeed with body placement and weight distribution.
Sometimes I do it sometimes i don’t. It all depends on the trail my speed etc etc. But then everyone I ride with is trying to get me look like a frog (yeah no pun here) on the bike.
Don’t forget peter that motorcycle although relatively similar to MTB are very different in the way you handle them as (and you have said it quite right) their is not ploum ploum for a mtb.

obvioulsy the end should be: there is no ploum ploum 😳