“Supporters of Labour and other left wing parties are convinced they have the moral high ground and that any disagreement is inhumane, as a result any confession of Tory support is shouted down and abused.”

A significant portion of right wing policy has the ultimate aim of making the rich richer. Unless there’s a magic money tree somewhere, that means they aim to do so at the expense of others, which is pretty morally reprehensible.

If that’s not cause for quite correctly claiming some form of moral high ground, then I don’t know what is.

Given the number of studies highlighting that those of a right wing disposition are on average educated to a lower level, I might also accept ignorance rather than a lack of empathy for defending Tories.

A significant portion of right wing policy has the ultimate aim of making the rich richer. Unless there’s a magic money tree somewhere, that means they aim to do so at the expense of others, which is pretty morally reprehensible.

Well, there actually _is_ a magic money tree. Now that no-one is on the gold standard anymore, the Bank of England (and all other central banks) are essentially magic money trees, backed up impressive looking buildings, the paraphernalia of a modern nation state, and trust. Deserved or otherwise.

Amazingly, it seems to have worked tolerably well.

i.e. it’s perfectly OK to be right wing.

i.e. it’s perfectly OK to be right wing

Yes, because printing money has never caused any problems for anyone before 🙄

Just because someone shares some beliefs with UKIP or the Tories doesn’t make them inherently evil,

Not evil, just prejudiced and lacking in any empathy.

UKIP believe in both leaving the EU and nationalising British Rail – I suppose that makes Corbyn a **** as well?

UKIP believe in both leaving the EU and nationalising British Rail – I suppose that makes Corbyn a **** as well?

Nope. It just further demonstrates your inability to comprehend all the facts associated with a discussion point. Sadly not surprising.

Just had a chat with my neighbour about the election. He said they were all clowns. I suggested it better to vote for a clown who at least wants to do good things…

Well, there actually _is_ a magic money tree.

True, but in the fairytale tradition, magic comes with a price 🙂

A significant portion of right wing policy has the ultimate aim of making the rich richer. Unless there’s a magic money tree somewhere, that means they aim to do so at the expense of others, which is pretty morally reprehensible.

If that’s not cause for quite correctly claiming some form of moral high ground, then I don’t know what is.

Given the number of studies highlighting that those of a right wing disposition are on average educated to a lower level, I might also accept ignorance rather than a lack of empathy for defending Tories.

Chapeau zokes 😀 with your self righteous arrogance, you single handedly demonstrate why so many people don’t want to engage with more left wing politics or those who peddle it.

Oooh it’s like tennis as taxi returns the compliment using right wing self righteous generalisation and arrogance!!!

I’m impressed.

Oooh it’s like tennis as taxi returns the compliment using right wing self righteous generalisation and arrogance!!!

A little bit perhaps. But the point I’m trying to make is when someone says.
“Torys mostly make money at others expense.
Because they supposedly do the left has moral high ground.
People vote Conservative out of ignorance.”
The reaction of many people who aren’t already committed to the left is, WTF where’s this guy coming from and switch of, the message however good it might be gets lost.

A significant portion of right wing policy has the ultimate aim of making the rich richer.

That’s not exactly it. The right wing thinks that people should make money according to their own ability to do so. And if you are bad at making money, then that’s your problem – try harder. They hold this principle dear. Now MOST on the right appreciate that some people have trouble with this but they place a higher priority on allowing people to keep their cash than the left do; and they are more likely to let the poor deal with it themselves rather than bail them out and get them dependent on the state.

The upshot of that though is that it does indeed make it easier for the rich to get richer, and the poor do get poorer.

The reaction of many people who aren’t already committed to the left is, WTF where’s this guy coming from and switch of, the message however good it might be gets lost.

They have switched off long a go. Selfish, prejudiced people with zero empathy don’t tend to suddenly change just because they see a good argument against how they have been living.
For example, even in these threads, when direct questions are asked on why right wingers think it is right to punish less fortunate people they don’t have much to say.

but they place a higher priority on allowing people to keep their cash than the left do

Well, almost – they certainly place a high priority on the rich keeping their cash and also the cash of poorer people. A recent illustration of this principle in operation was the London garden bridge project – perfectly designed to funnel tax payers’ money into private pockets.

Taxi – I understand your point and to be fair have some sympathy. I guess I’m just suggesting it’s a two way street. Every time a right wingers uses “lefty” as an insult it tends to make me categorise them and prejudice me against their views. This is one of the reasons there a few people on here could try and suggest the sun rises in the morning and I’d want a secind opinion. (For similar reactions see also use of remoaner, remaniac etc) I just discount their views because they started so badly.
And yes I refer to Brexies.
For what it’s worth I probably am a lefty, but you’re only allowed to call me that if you’re one too.
Why am I a lefty? Because I’m ok under any UK government (within reason) – white, male, well-educated, healthy and reasonable affluent – so I see my contribution being to make sure no one is left behind.
Paternalistic, condescending? Possibly – but better than the more “I’m alright Jack” selfish posture that would lead me to the right.
Do I think right wingers are bad people? No
Do I believe in enlarging the pie as well as dividing it more fairly? Yes
Was Tony Blair a huge disappointment? Well if only he hadn’t taken us into an unnecessary war, no, but on balance, yes

Agreed re Tony Blair, probably the best Prime Minister to date if you discount war, PFI , bedroom tax, WCA , Sanctions and the embryonic form of the welfare reforms we see today, and an artificial housing bubble propping up the economy

He did a lot for poverty and particularly child poverty though – just on the stats, it might have happened anyway.
The current bunch have rolled that back.

The right wing thinks that people should make money according to their own ability to do so.

And also groups of people who are just lucky through birth and conditions. That’s where it grates for me.

An interesting adjunct to this is everyone even the rich are happier in more equal countries – so although the rich don’t want to be taxed more actually taxing them more and redistributing wealth makes them happier.

I knew you had trouble with this empathy thing, but didn’t realise it was that bad. You appear to be confusing “upset” with “amused” and it’s only “disparaging” in your own mind. We established long ago that everybody to the left of you (ie 99% of the population) is a “leftie” – you presumably think I’m one, and I’m still way to the right of centre.

Though there is something to this criticism of supporters of left leaning parties – not all of them, though there are significant numbers on here. They also fail in empathy, because apparently they can’t understand how it us possible to be bothered about other people, reasonably intelligent and still vote Tory. Sure the ultimate aims of many in control of policies of the Tory party, and certainly the vast majority of its donors are enrichment of the rich, but that certainly doesn’t go for plenty of people who vote for them.

An interesting adjunct to this is everyone even the rich are happier in more equal countries – so although the rich don’t want to be taxed more actually taxing them more and redistributing wealth makes them happier

They be happier because they’re less likely to be turned over at the cash machine or be a victim of a household burg or sheding, getting thier 5 grand whip nicked..

They also fail in empathy, because apparently they can’t understand how it us possible to be bothered about other people, reasonably intelligent and still vote Tory.

No, frankly I can’t. Even a cursory analytical appraisal of current Tory policy means that either there is a lack of comprehension of the implications of those policies, or they’re comprehended perfectly well by people who at best just shrug and carry on not caring.

And fwiw taxi, all you did was try to turn the argument round on me. I note you didn’t actually refute a single word of my argument.

Well, almost – they certainly place a high priority on the rich keeping their cash and also the cash of poorer people.

Still disagree. The plan isn’t actually to take moeny from be poor. It’s to let people do what they want. Well of course, a lot of rich business people want to exploit the poor, but the Tories think this is just how it has to be. If you’re being exploited then you need to stop being so useless and fight back. They think this is fair, everyone can fail or succeed on merit.

Yup, that’s what I was aiming at by calling Tory voters murderers and enablers on the Corbyn thread, Zokes.
Hyperbole, absolutely.
But ignorance couldn’t be used as an excuse as despite the hyperbole, links to deaths and death statistics were provided which were linked to Tory welfare reform, so the only conclusion I could come to is as you state above.

A heartless analysis, Mol, but probably nail on the head.

Well of course, a lot of rich business people want to exploit the poor, but the Tories think this is just how it has to be. If you’re being exploited then you need to stop being so useless and fight back. They think this is fair, everyone can fail or succeed on merit*.

*Merit – or place of birth, postcode, parents wealth, luck etc.

The lasting trick is the same as the “American Dream” You can all be successful, please ignore the minor issues around the fact you will never be able to afford to consider expanding your chances but you could.

We could also judge people on their actions, plan A create a problem then you are able to propose an unpleasant solution to the problem you just created.
The current government has demonized immigrants, the poor, the judiciary and others so far.

They also fail in empathy, because apparently they can’t understand how it us possible to be bothered about other people, reasonably intelligent and still vote Tory.

Correct – given the harm they have done I fail to see how anyone with an ounce of empathy could vote Tory.

They think this is fair, everyone can fail or succeed on merit.

If they believed that then there’d be a 100% inheritance tax, a ban on any private selective funding for education, and a ban on private healthcare for anyone using money that they hadn’t earned themselves to pay for it. All these things favour families that already have lots of money and can pass it on to their children so that they may be advantaged. This leaves those without rich parents at a disadvantage for no reason other than that their parents were poor.

Do any forumites who are left leaning, actually feel insulted when the term “Lefties” is bandied about?

I know I don’t, I find it laughable that someone would consider the term mortally wounding to my psyche or ego!

ulysse – Member
Do any forumites who are left leaning, actually feel insulted when the term “Lefties” is bandied about?

It’s normally about the point where rational discussion has failed and it’s a pre flounce moment from the poster to divert attention from their deeply flawed argument again. Genuinely raises a smile these days as I’m mostly a very centrist politically.

As pointed out above, I’m not even particularly left leaning and find it quite amusing. It’s even more amusing now it’s been clarified that it’s an attempt to be disparaging.

and back on some sort of topic….


I think that is called a swing…. with 2 1/2 weeks to go can they make more slip ups?
The other thing with votes like this is momentum (not that one) there are people in the middle who will vote with the tide as it were, not bothering to step up as the result is already decided. If it tightens then things may change on that. Add in what might increased voting among young people it isn’t settled yet.

Do any forumites who are left leaning, actually feel insulted when the term “Lefties” is bandied about?

Not really. It’s like an attempt to insult someone by accusing them of being caring and compassionate of others.

Pretty similar to calling someone a Tory when you really mean “odious cretin”, which of course Tory is synonymous with 😆

oh and a wonderful who said it quote on the BBC

“The biggest threat to every generation in this country is getting Brexit wrong.
“Get Brexit wrong and we get everything wrong – from looking after our elderly to paying for our children’s education.”

Answer in here

In light of that MWS, my revised definition of Tory is “incompetent hypocritical odious cretin singularly lacking in self awareness”

It is, an entirely unsurprising one too. My flabber is still gasted that the Tories either didn’t realise what an electoral landmine that was, or were so arrogant that they didn’t care.

Add in what might increased voting among young people it isn’t settled yet.

That is indeed an interesting one. I’m yet to see any evidence there is a real effect there, but given continual reminders on social media (I have several under 30 FB friends, so doing my bit) there might be this time around. Not only that, but I suspect the dementia tax thing might result in some older people still being Tory voters according to the polls, but not bothering to vote on the day.

<spoiler alert for those who want to guess mike’s quote>

The truly bizarre thing there is that even if I didn’t trust Corbyn to run a bath he would still be preferable over a “bloody difficult woman” regarding a negotiation where the other side holds most of the cards. Of course such comments are playing to the diehard Brexiteers who still think we can dictate the terms of the negotiation with the EU. Even assuming we still leave under a Labour government (which still seems most likely) I’d bet my house on us securing a better deal under them.

The Mail in a nutshell “Voters even prefer May to Maggie”- amazing, how could anyone be more popular than Maggie?

I wonder how many Labour people are looking at themselves just now and thinking “Wonder what would have happened if we’d actually worked with Corbyn?” Maybe the Tories would have been running a tighter ship if they felt more challenged, of course… But after all that’s happened, to be where they are now must come as a shock. Or maybe they’ll be thinking “Phew, if we hadn’t worked so hard, we’d be winning”

Brexit. Lets take our country back, was tossed about freely in conversation.
What could be more “taking the country back” than Corbyns vision of taking the railways back from the Dutch Germans and French, taking Royal mail back from George Osborne’s best man, taking Electricity back from EDF….