Slightly OT but should make folk smile in a rueful FFS way.

Friend of mine was out for an Friday evening meal earlier in the year and parked up on a High St parking bay.

A completely plissed up driver smashed in to the back of his car, trashing the rear and forcing the car in to the one parked in front.

Cue a lot of agro with the authorities (Police included)and the car being left in situ over the weekend. When he went back to meet the recovery truck on the Monday, some dozy twunt council traffic womble had ticketed the car.

Possibly understandable you might say, but for the fact that the car only had three wheels on it,had heavily damaged front and rear bumpers and had two very conspicuous ‘Police Aware’ stickers front and rear. 🙄

You do have to wonder at the intelligence of some ‘officials’………..

To be fair mark is driving a vauxhall, that is worth a clamping IMHO

Probably missed something here about the distinction between reputable businesses with paying car parks and ‘hired in’ parking enforcers or clampers.

Most but not all of our city centre car parks are city council run, but what about NCP etc car parks? Or airport ones? Hospitals? Are those ones ‘private’ parking tickets too?

i dont have a car…

On the subject of criminal charges arising from criminal damage of property (deliberately breaking and damaging a clamp),CCTV footage can only be used a corroborative evidence. A person will not be convicted on CCTV evidence alone as it would not stand up and is too easily discredited.

As parking on private ground is a civil matter the land owner can only seek redress by way of compensation. Compensation is to recoup any loss and not for profit. So (in a legal sense)the land owner can only enforce (this would never happen as it is not cost effective)recouping the loss suffered which is at the most the cost of the parking fee.

Our factory is next to a BCA site and we get all sorts trying to park in our yard. Most of the time we catch them and ask politely to leave sometimes it gets a bit heated, I had one bloke tell me I was racist because I wouldn’t let him park there. Since we have had signs up saying we will ticket people we have been getting less attempts. Sometimes we just lock the gates so they cant get their cars back, we have left them lock and gone home in the past.

So yes I do think there is a place for parking tickets and they do work as a deterrent, however I wouldn’t pay if I got one.

Okay, the threatening letters have now started…

Who has ignored them, what situation were you in, what was the outcome?

my most recent letter came yesterday threatening court action, again. this is about my 5th letter, from overstaying in a co-op car park on holiday in cornwall.
i also got another similar one going off for not paying at newquay beach.
i havent replied to either.
the amounts now are at about £190 each!
they can take me to court, but i dont think they will, because i cant pay it!

As asked above are “other” types of car park covered under the “**** off I’m not paying rule”
Such as airports, multi stories and as I asked on the first page motorway services?? Does anyone actually know or is it more STW guess work??

This is what I want to know Wrighty…

I parked outside a friends house in a carpark not attached to their flat… plenty of spaces but got ticketd at 10 to 6 in the morning.

Unless it is from the council or police it is an invoice and they have to prove losses incurred (which is just the parking fee)

I ignored the ones from a shopping centre car park that my missus stayed for just over the 2 hour limit and it went away after 5 letters from solicitors debt collectors. I was advised to never reply as that just drags it out

Look on line lots of stuff about this

This was essentially a private car park for a block of flats… so no fee.

Yeti who is the bill from?

Some parking firm… can’t remember their name. Think they’re based in Birmingham.

As asked above are “other” types of car park covered under the “**** off I’m not paying rule”

It’s anything on private land. The only way they can make you pay is if they can prove you were driving, so either photo or video evidence.

chancing it TSY just ignore them or put you considerable creative talents to use when replying

Yeti
I personally would just ignore it

defo ignore it.

toys – did you somehow know it was going to absolutely pish it down yesterday afternoon?

My intention always has been to ignore it, just wondering if anyone has actually done it… none of the other sites tell of the outcomes of people ignoring it though.

Did it psih down? The weather said it would, so we were all thinking we might only do the morning. but actually my mrs was ill and I was recalled to base. When did the rain start?

At about half 3-4 ish… thunder and everything…

I’m going to try and drum up support for a Triscombe day… sounds awesome 🙂

there’s nothing at all the private company can do about it apart from send you ever more threatening letters in red ink or perhaps a nasty phone call to try and scare you into paying

This is, by the way, bollocks.

The piece of paper which they leave on your windscreen is not a fine. It is an invoice for liquidated damages based on your breach of the terms of the licence to enter the land which you had. It may be enforced through the courts as a civil matter (if their ducks are in a row – which they usually are). The company may get the court to compel the registered owner to identify who the driver on the occasion was. The amount recoverable is not limited merely to the unpaid parking fee. It is not extortion. And so on.

The correct position is that there is plenty the private companies can do to recover the money from you, but they usually don’t bother because it’s too expensive. Funnily enough, a whole multimillion pound industry is not based on an assertion with no basis in law. The true position is substantially different from what a million idiots on MSE talking about Magna Carta and the ECHR say and which gets replicated across t’internet like a million bar rooms.

This is, by the way, bollocks.

The bit of your post after that statement?

The amount recoverable is not limited merely to the unpaid parking fee.

The courts appear to judge otherwise – hence why it’s not generally worth them pursuing. All they can claim are damages, which if there is a standard fee for parking usually comes down to the unpaid fee. They certainly can’t charge for the costs incurred in chasing you.

Funnily enough, a whole multimillion pound industry is not based on an assertion with no basis in law.

Maybe not – but if everybody knew the law (and they all actually kept within it) it wouldn’t be a multimillion pound business.

One could, of course, “know the law and keep within it” by not parking longer than you have permission for. Just a thought, like.

The courts appear to judge otherwise

They don’t, you know. Liquidated damages don’t have to be based on actual loss in a particular circumstance. The whole point of agreeing liquidated damages in advance of a breach of contract is that you don’t have to sit around incurring further costs working out what the loss was.

What makes it uneconomic is the expense of court fees, lawyers, delay etc. It’s much cheaper to hire debt collectors (letter-sending machines and call centre agents) than it is to hire lawyers to actually litigate every claim – especially when the claim is only a hundred quid or so.

They don’t, you know.

Go on then, give me an example of the courts agreeing with the “fine” imposed by a parking company rather than something rather closer to the normal parking cost.

Whoa, whoa, whoa… there was no ‘fee’ or anything… but it was a rather empty car park for some flats.

but it was a rather empty car park for some flats

which means their ‘losses’ are exactly zero.

The company may get the court to compel the registered owner to identify who the driver on the occasion was

the whole point is that they can’t do this. even the police can’t when you get speeding fines, they are just allowed to give the points to the registered owner to get around this problem whereas private companies can only ‘invoice’ the person who parked the car.

Okay, the threatening letters have now started…

Who has ignored them, what situation were you in, what was the outcome?

We have.

Had about 6-8 letters. Opened the first couple, binned the rest. They stopped.

That was Aldi carpark in Farnham, Surrey, BTW

some interesting replies here but I think reality would be slightly different.

we had one of the worst private claimping companies in the Uk in southend, one which was the subject of a Watchdog episode – LBS Enforcement.

What happened was you park in bay marked no parking (whether at local garage, private flats, back of shops etc..) before youre even out of your car youre blocked in by the clamper – clamp goes on immediately and you are charged in the region of £4-500 for a release fee… For those of you now thinking I wouldnt let this guy touch my car, the guys that are doing this are ususally found working the doors of east end and glasgow night clubs in their spare time, they also dont listen to arguments – if you dont pay the fee within the allotted time (usually around 20 minutes) it double or triples because theyve called out the van to tow your car, so yhose of you nipping off to get an angle grinder, the car wont be there when you get back. Call the police – its a civil matter, the signs are up, they’re there with the agreement of the landowner, nothing thy can do. Obviously once your car is towed excessive storage fees are applied.

Many people took the company to court, most however lost as they were parking illegally in the first place, those that one tried to claim their money back from a company that had no assets other than a desk and a chair in a portakabin (the clampers were all self employed).

It was a very slick quite well thought out operation, which worked just bordering of inside the law.. Before the comapny was wound up it owed in excess of £20k to claimants not one had seen a penny and I doubt they ever will.

As far as I know becasue of this particular company the law has no been changed and this type of operation outlawed. But it always amazed me how many people went onto the local paper’s website complaining theyd been clamped when there were huge great signs warning them…

At the end of the day if you dont want a parking ticket dont park where youre not supposed to…

that’s a interesting story and highlights why the law is being changed to stop clamping companies.

has nothing to do with parking tickets though.

This is, by the way, bollocks.

The piece of paper which they leave on your windscreen is not a fine. It is an invoice for liquidated damages based on your breach of the terms of the licence to enter the land which you had. It may be enforced through the courts as a civil matter (if their ducks are in a row – which they usually are). The company may get the court to compel the registered owner to identify who the driver on the occasion was. The amount recoverable is not limited merely to the unpaid parking fee. It is not extortion. And so on.

The correct position is that there is plenty the private companies can do to recover the money from you, but they usually don’t bother because it’s too expensive. Funnily enough, a whole multimillion pound industry is not based on an assertion with no basis in law. The true position is substantially different from what a million idiots on MSE talking about Magna Carta and the ECHR say and which gets replicated across t’internet like a million bar rooms.

So why haven’t I been taken to court yet for the £18k+ I owe in parking charges?

there’s nothing at all the private company can do about it apart from send you ever more threatening letters in red ink or perhaps a nasty phone call to try and scare you into paying

This is, by the way, bollocks.

The piece of paper which they leave on your windscreen is not a fine. It is an invoice for liquidated damages based on your breach of the terms of the licence to enter the land which you had. It may be enforced through the courts as a civil matter (if their ducks are in a row – which they usually are). The company may get the court to compel the registered owner to identify who the driver on the occasion was. The amount recoverable is not limited merely to the unpaid parking fee. It is not extortion. And so on.

The correct position is that there is plenty the private companies can do to recover the money from you, but they usually don’t bother because it’s too expensive. Funnily enough, a whole multimillion pound industry is not based on an assertion with no basis in law. The true position is substantially different from what a million idiots on MSE talking about Magna Carta and the ECHR say and which gets replicated across t’internet like a million bar rooms.

Sorry Konabunny you’re wrong. The piece of paper is marked as a penalty charge notice and as such is an unlawful representation of losses.

Very few PPC’s take people to court, its HIGHLY unlikely they would win as they can’t fine you.
and yes it is a multimillion pound industry with no basis in law, it is a massive scam

Do you run a PPC by chance??

Liquidated damages don’t have to be based on actual loss in a particular circumstance.

I did a bit of research and it appears that in E&W law the amount of the liquidated damages has to be “reasonable” – something the charges they ask for clearly aren’t.

Boardin bob must park where the hell he wants 😈

Boardin bob must park where the hell he wants

Nope. I park on my own land. Some idiot from a PPC thinks he can ticket cars on my land.

I had a couple from “Parking Eye” from being at Fistral Beach, Newquay.
The letters from them are headed “Parking Charge Notice”, not PENALTY charge notice.

Nope. I park on my own land. Some idiot from a PPC thinks he can ticket cars on my land.

That’s hilarious. I really, really hope they try and sue you at some point.

Parking Eye

Yes thats the one I had, look em up on the interweb moneysaving expert had a forum about them.

Ignore, they are trying it on

So why haven’t I been taken to court yet for the £18k+ I owe in parking charges?

Who knows? Perhaps because it’s not worth it for them; perhaps because their data isn’t organised enough to realise that one person owes them enough cash to actually be worth suing for once; perhaps it’s because they’re not actually in the suing business, just the “writing letters and hoping people pay without having to sue them” business.

aracer: I can simply point out that your position has already shifted from being that the car park management companies can only claim the cost of the unpaid fee to now accepting that the car park management companies can only claim a “reasonable” amount in liquidated damages. With your fine critical reading skills, I’m sure you’ll appreciate the difference. If you really want to get into it yourself, start with Dunlop v New Garage and follow the stream of cases from there.

But already we’re a long way from “if it’s not issued by the Council then YOU DON’T HAVE TO PAY!…there’s nothing at all the private company can do about it…extortionate parking charges that are totally unreasonable yet completely unenforceable” which, I suppose, is progress.

I have some inside info on this. The parking eye type.

The business model is involves sending threatening letters based on data supplied by DVLA. There is a flaw in the business model where they send an ‘invoice’ to the registered keeper but it they can not ‘fine you’ and they will have difficulty proving who used the car park. The person who parked is liable to pay not the registered keeper. There I also a stretch of existing law where they would have to argue that there terms are enforceable as, in parking there, you accepted them, (you will notice the importance of signage in these car parks) but this has never been tested in court and the operators will not want to test it.

The operators are reliant on people just paying up as if these ever go to court there chances on minimal.

My lawyer friend is advising people to write back to the company stating only that you were not in there car park at the time they claim. Make no reference to the car or anything else. This is your best bet on stopping the letters but they will probably keep coming however it is highly unlikely you will end up in court.

edit: apologies for my horific english its friday and im out of here.edit