To infinity and beyond
https://orbex.breathehr.com/recruitment/vacancies/12519

Phil – are NATS looking at redundancies too? When things ramp up we will nreed ATCO’s yesterday!!

Assassin.

I’ll do James Dyson and Boris Johnson for free then start charging

Commercial drone pilot?

Loads of new applications mean that business will boom. But it will be cut throat as barriers to entry are relatively low (compared to ATPL).

But a far better bet than aviation in the longer term.

Other thought I have is building / selling home offices / fancy sheds. There is likely to be a permanent shift in WFH, so reckon this too will be a growth area. And can see big companies bunging employees WFH grants if they start to close their offices. Kerching.

Well currently not a lot 😉

I think you are mistaken. Many of them are working very hard – either in “childcare hubs” or doing on-line learning with absolutely zero training in it. I’m not saying my kids teachers are doing an amazing job of it all, but I think they are doing a lot better at it than I would do flying a jumbo.

I’m facing redundancy at this very moment.

HGV has been in the back of my mind. Anyone want any experience to offer?

I think I’d be happy in the right place to carry on fabricating. Time will see.

Ninja…

I’m a builder, I can lay bricks, plaster, render, tile, do plumbing and joinery, roofing.
The variety of work keeps me interested and constant flow of new products to the market keeps me learning new skills.
I love to see a job through start to finish and the happiness I can see if gives my customers is almost worth the job alone.
Wouldn’t change it for any job really.

Policeman ?.

Snow plow. Driving Kassbohrer/Pistonbulleys*

*may need to relocate.

Policeman ?.

My fall-back if I hadn’t got into uni.
Looking at a friend who is a year older than me and retires from police next year, maybe I should…

Phil – are NATS looking at redundancies too?

Not at the moment.

I’d like to be an actor.

Brian Blessed’s not getting any younger….

Well son2 was hoping to train for his commercial license this year. He’s studying ATPL at the moment just for fun.

What do you like doing? You work in a highly regulated land of order and rules. Is this something you like or would prefer to move from? Do you like people or ideas? Would being around aviation remind you of what you’ve lost? Or would it stimulate you?

There’s a massive shortage of flying instructors and most schools are paying the qualification.

Personally? If I wasn’t doing science and being paid for it, I fancy being a primary teacher. Or a lion tamer. Not a huge difference.

Builder or engineer (as I. Hand on machinest) both working for my self though. I always wanted to be a builder and Think I am a good way there on skills, best at roofing. I don’t have a long list of contacts to help out nor am I any good at estimating.

TiRed – Ive known nothing other than flying, joining the RAF straight from uni, then airlines. My only other jobs were on a turkey farm, vegetable picking, McDonalds and a barman!

I am very much a social creature, and could probably turn my hand to most things. I’m a problem solver/risk manager really and pretty good with my hands.

I feel for your son – timing is everything in aviation, and the £120k required to finance your own training these days is 😱.

I am lucky to have a working wife and made sensible decisions financially, so even if I get selected for redundancy we will get by.

I’m a problem solver/risk manager really and pretty good with my hands.

Then I think you would be well-suited to project management. Complexity, order, problem solving and a lot of personal interaction. Having worked under so much regulation, you would also be ideal in such working environments.

https://www.prospects.ac.uk/jobs-and-work-experience/job-sectors/business-consulting-and-management/how-to-become-a-project-manager

As for Son2, it’s his passion. He’s deliberately not gone to Uni. There will be an eventual upswing in need for pilots in a couple of years. And financially, we are in a fortunate position, but he will have made a significant contribution by saving for two years at LHR. He will never have a final salary pension, or all the perks, but airlines will always need First Officers and Captains. He’s only 19.

Good on him – its still a great job. It is very easy to say “It isn’t what it used to be” but I think that’s the same everywhere. Having a job you enjoy is such a rarity.

Working in an industry transitioning from FS pensions to MP schemes (Im on the latter) the FS schemes have been battered by rule changes and tax brackets recently. A good MP scheme is probably a better bet these days. A simple spreadsheet of career earnings and pension input shows some pretty eye watering numbers as a pension.

I’d retrain as a counsellor. This crisis has clearly shown that way too many people are **** up and need to get their shit straight, and I’m happy to tell them £20 an hour*

*and if you can’t tell my tongue is in my cheek, I’ll fit you in as a priority case.

The early post about train driver on £40k basic, that’s a bit of a yarn – even Island Line are on more than that these days – either that or the person in question actually drives trams or is a ‘depot driver’ (restricted to the confines of a maintenance depot, never exceeds 5mph). Majority are on well over £50k now, with the top of the pile being Eurostar on ~£72k, and domestic being Avanti (formerly Virgin WC) on ~£67k.

It’s really not a job to do just for the money though. You really need an interest or you will either get trapped by the salary and hate it, or you will not be able to hack it in the first place. I’ve been a driver the best part of 20 years and I train train drivers for a living.

That fits in with my research. How long does training take?

I’ve no idea what I’ll do at 55 and the fact is that there is going to be a lot of competition for all jobs after this. It certainly doesn’t look good for us at the moment. We are a audio visual company and 95% of our work is out of the country for pharmaceutical clinical trials meetings. How they will run for the next year or so is hard to know but I’ve no doubt that in the long run they will return as face to face meetings, the whole video conference option simply doesn’t work when you are effectively building your international teams, people need to meet. The problem is that we won’t still exist to provide the support we currently do once things return to a more normal set up.

We’ve heard a lot about how people are dying because they are not seeking or able to get treatment for other conditions but there will also be a long term effect of the reducing of clinical trials, the consequences for me aren’t looking great but I’m very aware that it will be costing others their lives.

That fits in with my research. How long does training take?

It should take less than a year. Depending on how much of a backlog of training/shortage of instructors & managers there is it might take up to two years but that’s an exception.

Generally the classroom-based stuff at the start of the training takes the right amount of time, say four months, because it follows a syllabus. It’s when trainees come out for the latter stages (with the likes of me) working one to one for 230+ hours practical handling that it can fall down. Some places are pretty efficient, some really aren’t.

Salary at our place is £22k training then tiered once qualified or after 12 months in training (say if training gets drawn out) – if a trainee starts in January on £22k they might qualify in November, salary then goes up to c.£43k, then after another 12 months c.47k then after another year £54500 full rate.

Once you’ve qualified from being a trainee (‘passed out’) on your depot’s basic routes and traction types there’s usually more training to do to be fully conversant in everything routes and traction-wise that you’ll be expected to drive – at our place that takes a minimum of two years, usually more like 3-4.

From walking in off-the-street to passing out as a qualified but inexperienced driver it’s probably akin to doing it a degree-level course in 9-10 months. I expect trainees at the latter stages of training (when they’re with me) to do an hour or two study every day – in addition to being in work being supervised by me all day driving for full shifts and putting into practice everything they’ve learnt so far.

There are regular theory and practical assessments all through training, and the final competency assessment takes an average of about eight days.

Failure rate of trainee drivers is about 10%. It’s usually possible to tell the ones who will struggle within five minutes of meeting them. Any who fail will get a second chance at an assessment, but there are usually no third chances.

Most companies have ‘stood down’ trainee drivers due to the coronavirus and training is pretty much frozen, so recruitment for trainee drivers has also stopped. There will be a backlog building up but recruitment will probably start again late this year. External trainee driver jobs are advertised and then often pulled within days (or even hours) once the applicant response numbers are hit.

Once you’ve applied you’ll be sifted, successfuls will be invited to a recruitment event and/or driver manager interview.

If you pass that you’ll be invited to psychometric testing. This also includes a structured interview about past experiences of certain kinds and how you reacted in each case.

If you pass that you’ll be sent for a medical once a start date on a course is identified for you. The recruitment process can take many months, railway HR depts are constantly inundated and there’s always a ‘feast & famine’ approach to driver recruitment.

Thanks very much. Who are you with? I’d be southeastern.

Interesting that on the trains you get paid in training, whereas aviation you train on zero money for 2 years without a job, and pay £120,000 for the privelidge !!!!

If you pass that you’ll be sent for a medical

I think you’ll pass 🙂 .

Thanks very much. Who are you with? I’d be southeastern.

Northern (keep it quiet)…

Instructor Drivers here are quite busy and have been for a few years – see reports of driver shortages ad passim.
There have been classes of trainees every few months for years. Usually about a dozen per class, with a mix of different depots the trainees will be based at in each class. Northern have two training schools, one in Manchester and one in Leeds.

Re medicals, they’re fairly straightforward, hearing and eyesight can sometimes throw up surprises though. An entry medical will be ECG, blood pressure, physical mobility, urine check (plus D&A screening urine check), colour vision, visual acuity, hearing, general physical and mental health questions. Periodic medicals are every three years thereafter, every year after age 56 IIRC. Some types of laser eye surgery are permitted by some companies but it’s generally seen (sorry) as being a bit of a risk to your medical status if it doesn’t go quite right.

Medical standards guidance document available from the RSSB site – search for RIS-3451-TOM.

If you work for northern I bet you know a mate of mine hes a driver trainer to…

Darren lives in bolton. Had a stroke a couple of years ago?

Think about risk management in the financial services industry.

Money is good, your experience is transferable in more ways than you think, lots of airline thinking about risk management in the FS industry, that area is growing, not shrinking.

It’s an office/work at home job though

I’d love to be a chuff-chuff driver, but realistically I think I’m going to re-train as a Bernard Manning looky-likey and tour the East Anglian holiday camps.

If you work for northern I bet you know a mate of mine hes a driver trainer to…

Darren lives in bolton. Had a stroke a couple of years ago?

I know DS but haven’t really spoken to many of the classroom trainers for a while, we at the depots don’t normally have much to do with the school these days but I’m glad things worked out for him after what happened when he moved to those ratbags. The trainees I’ve had that trained with him speak very highly of him as I’m sure you’d expect.

Hes a great chap.

Small world really isn’t it.

Back on topic I’m thinking class 1 driving, got the forms done need my medical and away we go. Dont necessarily want it as a full time roll but want a solid fall back.

Digger man.
Bloke round here owns his own small digger a 4×4 and a trailer.
Got all his Site Safety and accreditation for larger diggers and has more work than he can handle.
He may or may not do small jobs for cash on Saturday – depends who is asking.

To stay flying can you work as a pilot instructor somewhere in the world?

Been giving some thought to this as I think my job in the hospitality industry is gone for the forseeable. Not that I’m that bothered, crap conditions and even worse pay.

Looked into retraining as a nurse last year but put it off as I have been out of study for a while so have been doing some short courses to get my tiny brain working again. I also looked at training to be a Physiotherapist but will need to go back to college for that one. Still might do it however.

What about the refuelling services at the airport, I assume you live close. I used to work in aviation fuel supply and always fancied working airside the staff all seemed really happy, that was ages ago though.

If you’re asking on here I don’t think you’ve got a hope🤣

Partner is a teacher. Exactly the same as any (indirectly) government funded job. Starved of resources and funding, poor pay for level of responsibility, horrendous social issues to deal with on a daily basis, infighting with bitter and insecure staff, poor leadership and constant redundancy threats. Classroom Assistants have been first in the firing line leading to teachers struggling with special needs in the classroom to the detriment of all pupils.

Train driving would drive you mad! One of the psychometric tests is to see if you fall asleep too easily.

Postie…..you are just a number in a cash generating privatised business (relative is postie).

Property Maintenance. No qualifications, no certificates, bit of practical knowledge and common sense…..I could work 18 hour days, 7 days a week. Couldn’t believe how much demand there was when I started, still can’t at times. I have work queued up, can pick and choose who I deal with and what work I do. Self employed. The secret? Focus on quality of service. TALK to your punters, tell them what you are doing, explain. Easy money and brilliant!

I’m thinking bike mechanic/coach/guide – or Forestry Commission ranger.
More realistic is probably Facilities Management or something along those lines.

From software to something healthcare related like adult nursing or some other allied health profession. I regret not going for medicine when I was in my 20s and now I’m in my 40s it’s too late for that, but other things in the area appeal to me.

In fact I’m considering this change even without being made redundant.

Have you considered private aviation?

If you’re willing to relocate or work a rotation there could be an operator looking for pilots already type trained with lots of hours. Those jobs are few and far between, and there could be a fair bit of competition at the moment, but you might be lucky.

I also think private aviation will have a bit of a boost in the near future with commercial routes being reduced.

First thing you need to figure out is where you want to live. If you’re willing to do like I did and move from somewhere expensive to the middle of nowhere, then you could potentially cut your bills by some massive amount. Once you’ve done that what you need to earn obviously drops, and a whole world of options become viable. I don’t know where you live of course but its definitely worth considering. Also importantly your lifestyle will adjust to your income. You don’t need a big income to be happy. I used to earn the big bucks in IT and management, flying all around the world at the front of the bus keeping the pilots employed. Now I earn a fraction of that (growing a bike company doesn’t make you rich… who knew?) but Im just as happy bashing about my ‘farm’ I bought in the NE of England (for 1/2 the price of my Berkshire 4 bed) on a 20 year old quad bike I bought as I ever was before. The important caveat to the above is you do need enough income. Im not advocating that everyone could be happy on any amount of money. You need enough to be secure, and see your bank balance grow a bit each month, but you’ll find Im sure, like I did, the drains on your bank account taper off rapidly when the income reduces. You just stop p****** it up the wall.

Just as an aside for anyone seriously considering the above, we have kids 4 & 7 when we moved, and they barely even noticed so I think you can overly worry about the impact of these sort of things on kids, all they want is parents to be there more, and happy. They just get on with making new friends etc. way better than the adults do!

Of course I also should add that the job needs to not only be post-covid but also post-brexit proof.

Might I suggest Bailiff therefore.