mastiles_fanylion – Member

Not sure

Yes, the time gaps from Wiggo to him are a small amount at the first TT, 30 seconds at the second TT and the rest in crash(es).

I think Froome’s doing an admirable job of sticking to the team plan which is based on which rider has the best probability of winning. It’s always hard to say ‘what if’ but it’s quite possible that Froome could be stronger and I think he’s being perfectly reasonable in saying that if next year’s course is more suited to him (which for the 100th TdF, it may well be) then he’d expect Sky to play fair and nominate him as the team leader.

ohnohesback – Member
TdF green beats olympic gold IMO

To cyclists in the know, of course. I think that’s not who Sky and Cav are looking to though. Wiggins is well known because of the Olympics. If Cav wins the RR then in the UK he’ll be remembered for that more than the Green jersey which most people really don’t understand (he won but he finished X hours behind the winner? eh?)

I think he’ll be marked out of the ORR

Quite possibly but there are only 5 man teams so it’s much harder to mark him out and other teams will also be looking for a sprint – Germany for one, quite possible the Aussies. Not to mention that he was the most marked man in history at the World Champs and we all know how that ended 🙂

“he’d expect Sky to play fair and nominate him as the team leader.”

rumours of a.n.other team buying out his contract been rubbished yet ?

My understanding is that the deal is – Cav will work for Wiggins and co for the GC at le Tour, and they will work for him for the gold at the Olympics ? Seems quite fair to me. He will get better sponsorship deals with an Olympic medal in his hand, won in front of 60 million Brits, than he will for winning some incomprehensible jersey in France. (is a jersey all they could afford to give him for a prize seems a bit mean ?)

I wouldn’t count the Aussies out at the Olympics mind, and Froome needs to pick a country, let alone a team.

I wouldn’t be at the Tour De France . .

Excellent, thanks for that, just the kind of image I need on a thread I’m reading and contributing to at work. Nice one.

😐 sorry

I don’t believe that Cav is primarily motivated by money, I used to think he was all about personal glory, but I’m now thinking he’s a team player too.
He’s a legend.

love it when folks that watch 2 weeks of the tour cycling suddenly become expert

this is based on following about 4 Tours de France and the the rest of past two international seasons (Paris-Nice, Giro, Daupine, etc.) – do I qualify to have an opinion?

Sagan has managed to get the green jersey riding on a team dedicated to getting Nibali to 1st in the GC (which they may still do) so he (cav) shouldn’t really have any complaints.

Clicky

Three objectives for Cav in this tour. To win a stage, preferably the Champs Elysées in his rainbow jersey, to help Bradley/ the team where possible and prepare for the Olympics.

Sagan has managed to get the green jersey riding on a team dedicated to getting Nibali to 1st in the GC (which they may still do) so he (cav) shouldn’t really have any complaints.

you know cav and sagan aren’t the same person right? although its a team sport, it does come more than slightly down to the individual…

Cav’s move to Sky works on many different levels. He has already won Green, and may do so in the future again, if the race is structured to allow him to. Even with the HTC team of last year it is doubtful that he could have won it this year, especially with the rise of Sagan. He has won a stage and will be in good shout in the final stage.

Sky and British Cycling are linked, as such Sky will be making sure that Cav is in the right form for the ORR. In the cycling world Green may top Gold, for the majority of the public this is not the case. BC need Gold(s) to keep the funding coming in. Sky need BC to keep developing cyclists.

Cav also gets to have a go, with Sky support, at the classics and the other Grand Tours. While the TdF is rightly dominating our TV, there is more to cycling than just the TdF.

Froome is different. Assuming that Wiggins wins this year, then he will be the team leader for next, Froome must know that. Froome is doing well because the team built for Wiggins benefits him as well. For him to be a team leader he needs a team. If he moves, then the rest of the team are as important.

Personally, I think that Sky have him lined up to be the team leader in a couple of years time. Could backfire, but he can see what they have done for Wiggins and could do for him. Also he will be probably be be the team leader in the other grand tours.

“this is based on following about 4 Tours de France and the the rest of past two international seasons (Paris-Nice, Giro, Daupine, etc.) – do I qualify to have an opinion?”

are you the OP chatting shit ? or someone else entirely.

you know cav and sagan aren’t the same person right? although its a team sport, it does come more than slightly down to the individual…

I’m not saying they are, and Cav is still the faster sprinter by quite a way, Sagan has managed to get the green jersey without a lead out train so it is possible to do without a team working to that aim.

nice acknowledgement from Wiggins

I’m not saying they are, and Cav is still the faster sprinter by quite a way, Sagan has managed to get the green jersey without a lead out train so it is possible to do without a team working to that aim.

not for cav it isnt.

My money is on Froome taking out Australian citizenship in the next few years.

Sagan has managed to get the green jersey without a lead out train

Different type of rider, different wins. Sagan’s much better at being in the breakaway than Cav, and hill climbing. There are green points available for every stage afaik not just the bunch sprint ones.

not for cav it isnt.

really ? he may well have had four wins by now, 1 crash, 1 misjudgement and if he was in the position behind wiggins instead of Edvard (or better still tucked in behind EBH).

are you the OP chatting shit ? or someone else entirely.

😕 someone else.

My money is on Froome taking out Australian citizenship in the next few years.

I’ve said elsewhere Rabobank might work well for him; they’re one of the few teams with a budget big enough to buy out his contract, they’re in desperate need of someone who can actually win things instead of being an orange dot down the road from the leaders/crashing, and I’d expect he already speaks a bit of Dutch (OK, Afrikaans) after spending his teens in SA.

Andy

Was a bit pants that no one chased the break yesterday but it wasn’t Sky’s job to, it’s more GreenEdge and Lotto couldn’t be bothered with the effort when the reward was far from guaranteed. No way should Sky have chased with the Pyrenees coming up.

Pretty sure Cav knew he’d be on his own this TdF and outside of the first week and Paris he’d be on domestique duty, unfortunately the first week didn’t go as planned due to crashes.

I’m a bit worried about his conditioning for the Olympics now though – I know Boardman keeps repeating that riding the entire TdF is the best prep he could do for the Olympics and ofc Boardman has forgotten more about training than I’ll ever know but surely the way he’s going now he’s not even really sprinting. Long TdF stages might be the ideal base for the long Olympics RR but surely he needs to keep the fast-twitch muscles going as well, if he were contesting intermediate sprints and the finishes then that might well be enough but he’s given up on that and won’t be trying again until Paris – so he’ll have done 2.5 weeks of just steady hard miles. He’d have been better off in a training camp with sprints mixed in and maybe the Tour of Poland, although I’m guessing he would have preferred the TdF option :p

ohnohesback – Member
TdF green beats olympic gold IMO

To cyclists in the know, of course. I think that’s not who Sky and Cav are looking to though. Wiggins is well known because of the Olympics. If Cav wins the RR then in the UK he’ll be remembered for that more than the Green jersey which most people really don’t understand (he won but he finished X hours behind the winner? eh?)

+1

TBH I think Sky are focused on a much longer term set of goals, a rolling 3 year-ish plan, and keeping their jerseys in finish line and podium pictures in both cycling and general sporting media…

Its a long term integrated plan and built around pushing several big names (with BC support) into the public eye rather than just one face…
The fact that Froome, Wiggins and Cavendish’ names all get kicked about when talking TDF/ORR is sort of testament to that.

They’ve seen the benefits of dominating Track
and are modifying that model to suit a road team and it seems to be working…

Building a 5 man ORR Sky/BC squad around Cav’ could work it all depends on how well other national cycling bodies/sponsors have worked and planned together, its a gamble and it needs that lead rider to get a bit leaner and of course not tear his legs off on the tour, and look what we’ve got, a steady pared down Cav’ playing his part in the team, but not picking up injuries or knackering himself over in france.

Cav’ can still target 2013/14/15 TDF glory but i think the value of an ORR gold in terms of his Public exposure and value for sponsorship/endorsements cannot be underestimated…
The boys gotta shift anti-dandruff shampoo and TV subscriptions to the masses at the end of the day and an olympic gold will do that far better…

yeh really.

cav has the best jump in the peleton. no doubt about it.

but despite being though of as a sprinters jersey, its an accumulation of points rather than pure sprint stage wins. ergo greipel is a LONG way off winning it, depsite winning 3 stages already.

as said above, if you have whole team working to defend it, and a tour that is better designed around the green jersey finding its way onto a pure sprinter then it will be his every time.

IMO it should be a strong man’s jersey rather than a stage finishers jersey, and thus it fits sagan/hushovd better.

If I were Cav…

Well first off I wouldn’t be in the slightest bit bothered what a bunch of guys on an internet forum were spouting out about me having “lost it” or “choosing the wrong team” etc.

Cav has IMO done absolutely the right thing. He had lots of help last year at the World Champs, and is essentially repaying a debt this TdF to Wiggins and team Sky, but also going some way to overpay it so he is still owed a favour as such (which they will repay him) by working their asses off to get him the Gold at the Olympics.

People watching from afar lose sight of just how much cycling at that level is a team sport. Imagine if there was no peloton, and the Tour was one enormous 3 week time trial where everybody had to ride on their own… The prospects don’t bear thinking about, but you’d be lucky if you had a dozen finishers (or even a dozen starters for that matter!). The Tour is what it is cos it’s all about the tactics the teams use to get their important men in the right place at the right time. For instance, you don’t see the likes of 17 time TdF rider George Hincapie moaning about not getting his turn, despite the fact he helped Lance Armstrong to 7 victories, Evans to 1, and has done a huge amount of work for many others in his time.

Cav has done a sterling job this Tour, he was unlucky on a couple of early stages that he could have won but got caught up in crashes just short of the finish line, but he was never trying to contest the Green Jersey this year even from day one. The Green Jersey really isn’t as important as a lot of people make it out to be. It only attracts the same prize money as the Polka Dot Jersey (which we Brits don’t seem to give a toss about as no British man is going to win it!) which is 25,000 Euro’s. Not bad but that’s only the same as 3 stage wins at 8,000 Euro’s a pop. The overall TdF win carries with it 450,000 Euro’s, 2nd place (which Froome looks as good as certain to take) brings a strong 200,000 Euro’s. Basically the Green isn’t that important at all, it’s certainly nothing like as important a prize as an Olympic Gold.

And you can forget about how important the TdF is in the real world, regardless of your ambitions, an Olympic Gold medal is practically a meal ticket for life! That’ll be worth a hell of a lot more to Cav in the grand scheme of things than another Green Jersey (he’s already proved himself once, and can do again next year and the year after etc.). Any person in their right mind would shift their priorities based on the possibility of what essentially being setup for life could do…

I like the fact that sometimes it’s a sprinters jersey and other times it’s a ‘strong man’s’ one – makes it more interesting IMO.

I like the fact that sometimes it’s a sprinters jersey and other times it’s a ‘strong man’s’ one – makes it more interesting IMO.

agree with that actually. just think im ultimately (jerseys aside) more of a fan of the roulers than the pure sprinters.

Cav is working for the team just like the members of the Sky squad did when he became world champion, being part of a team means you make sacrifices for each other, I’m sure Sky will give Froome the opportunity to win the Tour next year, Wiggins has already admitted he is probably a one Tour win rider.

mboy i think i agree with your general sentiment (i.e. this year is olympics year for cav so he isnt too arsed about other competetions) but….

The Green Jersey really isn’t as important as a lot of people make it out to be. It only attracts the same prize money as the Polka Dot Jersey (which we Brits don’t seem to give a toss about as no British man is going to win it!) which is 25,000 Euro’s. Not bad but that’s only the same as 3 stage wins at 8,000 Euro’s a pop. The overall TdF win carries with it 450,000 Euro’s, 2nd place (which Froome looks as good as certain to take) brings a strong 200,000 Euro’s. Basically the Green isn’t that important at all, it’s certainly nothing like as important a prize as an Olympic Gold.

the ‘value/importance/worth’ of a jersey/win really has sod all to do with cash…

I’m sure Sky will give Froome the opportunity to win the Tour next year

jesus that’s worth a punt against… what odds can i have on that one please?

(IMO) not a chance in hell that Sky would usurp wiggins following this year’s perfromance.

the ‘value/importance/worth’ of a jersey/win really has sod all to do with cash…

Oh I agree totally

I just added the cash values associated with them to bring some relative “worth” into the picture… For instance, we forget all about the Polka Dot Jersey as no British Guy is going to win it, so to us it’s unimportant. We place a very high importance on the Green Jersey as Cav has for the last few years been in with a shout of it.

I just used the cash prizes to highlight that. For instance, if Froome does finish 2nd, he will earn 8 times as much money in doing so than Cav would have done in Winning the Green Jersey! The Green, Polka Dot and White Jersey’s really are only token prizes, they’re not as important as we make them out to be. Of course, that doesn’t detract from the likes of Cav/Sagan/Griepel etc. who still want to win it, but it’s nothing like as important a a GC win if you get me.

Is it still traditional that prize money gets pooled and shared by the team – as a reflection that an individual might get to stand on the top step, but it’s a team that puts him there?

so to us it’s unimportant.

im not sure who ‘us’ is… it’s not in the news, as (as you say) we don’t have any contenders…

The Green, Polka Dot and White Jersey’s really are only token prizes, they’re not as important as we make them out to be.

I just don’t think that’s true.

finally on the cash thing again…they share the money out amongst the ENTIRE team out anyway. (and i mean ENTIRE – right down to mechanics, truck drivers etc.) its not like froome is playing for a 200k bonus this year, and cav will go home peniless.

For instance, we forget all about the Polka Dot Jersey

It was a pretty big deal when Robert Millar won it, he got quite a few endorsements as a result and they made a TV programme about him

jonv – Yes.

For instance, you don’t see the likes of 17 time TdF rider George Hincapie moaning about not getting his turn, despite the fact he helped Lance Armstrong to 7 victories, Evans to 1, and has done a huge amount of work for many others in his time

Yep, similarly goalkeepers don’t complain about not getting the chance to score goals. Or a more accurate analogy would be Rugby. Forwards work their balls off all match and rarely get the chance to score tries. But they are the foundation of the team and everyone recognises that, good ones are valuable players.

I was going to say that the teams should share out the prize money – glad to hear that they do!

Before Cav won Green last year, he held a press conference and one of his questions to the gathered media (who obviously all been slagging him off for not winning Green up to that point) was “name the previous 3 Green jersey winners”.

It was quite telling that none of the journos could – basically an indication that, outside of the most anal of cycling fans, no one remembers after a year or so.

Certainly to the mainstream media, Gold medals at the Olympics trump pretty much everything else.

I struggle with long sentences so this might have been covered

But Cav stated in an interview last night that he had a team working for him to get the world champions jersey and now he is working to get Wiggins the yellow Jersey in the Tour. It’s a team sport and he is not expecting payback he is repaying the debt for the help he got to get those rainbow stripes.

I think he genuinely wants to see Wiggins in yellow and will do so to his own detriment during the tour.

If I were Cav – I’d be over the moon that my team had the yellow jersey wearer & bloke who looks like he’s going to win the TDF in it…..

There’s no “I” in team,guessing quite a few on here have never been part of a team to understand that …………..

Careful peeps, we’re very close to agreeing with each other here…