Well if Leave would have been allowed to have had access to the civil service maybe we would have got that. As only Remain had access and failed to make a complelling case based on actual data I can only assume that the data was not helpful to their case

Nah the leave campaign were told many times that the 350mil for the NHS was a lie, but they rolled with it anyway.

If there was one thing that Vote Leave was not interested in it was actual facts and data

People wanted a simple solution to very complicated problems, that is what Vote Leave promised to give them.

Which country can I move all my savings and pensions to until all this sorts itself out?

You can do that now. We had a pension/investment thread recently. I posted up I am (roughly) 30% invested in UK, the wife has a property in France but all her pension/investments are in the US. I have effectively zero investments in Europe ex UK.

about 20% of the voting populace would read the proposal, about 20% of that 20% would actually understand it, and the rest would vote based on whatever their particular favourite media suggests.

As Douglas Adams wrote “there is another theory, which states that this has already happened…”

Kimbers, the original question was about immigration hence my reply. We could have a little wager (for honour if you like) that by 2019 our weekly contribution to the EU budget net of rebate is £350m a week (currently £200m)

Well if Leave would have been allowed to have had access to the civil service maybe we would have got that. As only Remain had access and failed to make a complelling case based on actual data I can only assume that the data was not helpful to their case.

Given that it was an unholy mix of Farage/Gove/Johnson/IDS etc opinions trumpeted by the Daily Mail/Sun/Express vs facts I’m not surprised facts won.

Lying through your teeth, putting the shits up people and then telling them that the only way to make the imaginary scenario go away is always going to be an easier sell than the dry facts of a matter because you can say anything. Just look at any other debate going on at the moment.

if there was a 2nd referendum what could the Yes/No question actually be?

Best of three?

Should we take a blowtorch to each snowflake that demanded another go at getting their own way ?

Don’t disagree, except it wasn’t (and isn’t) legally binding – says so in the actual legislation.

I know, I aksed Chris Grayling about this at a Leave launch event. Myself and a few other people said we didn’t trust the Govt to deliver Brexit even in the event of a Leave win. The SNP didn’t trust Cameron so they got a legally binding agreement. I pointed that out to Grayling too 🙂

Best of three?

Deja vu 😉 (tmh ^^^)

Are you a lily-livered snowflake who doesn’t believe in their country?

ah thm, always a sharper tack than I.

I’m not sure that “best of 3?” is forward looking enough:

Best of 5?

Remainiacs, Snowflake Citizens of Nowhere like myself

Are just trying to avoid taking a big bite of the shit sandwhich that is Brexit.

As I’m not to fond of eating shit, I say we rerun it until the answer is remain and we can get to work making the world a better place.

I’m not convinced another referendum is the way to go, although I hate the thought of leaving the EU.

I think the government either has to have the balls to go for brexit properly, or have the balls to say why they are not going to do it. This fannying around isn’t really helping anyone at the moment.

I’m not sure that “best of 3?” is forward looking enough:

Best of 5?
Why don’t we have a regular opportunity to decide our political direction, by vote. We could hold this vote every four or five years, for example. The whole nation could get involved, and elect based on an archaic system to a house of ministers, who would turn have the five years to prove thier mettle?

or we could just continue with a referendum on membership of the common market every 41 years.

There is the possibility that Le Pen wins in France, holds a Frexit referendum and the EU starts to unravel before we even get the chance to invoke article 50

Fingers crossed 🙂

ah thm, always a sharper tack than I.

Maybe we can all roll down a trail together someday, Surrey Hills or PdS.

I have pointed this out also, plus we have Austrian Presidential re-run in Dec (50/50 tie last time Greens/Far Right), Dutch election with potentially very eueosceptic outcome (Dutch already passed a law saying no new treaties without a Referendum), French in April/May and Germans in October. The picture is very unclear.

I suspect that is why we have not issues Art 50 sooner, and why May has kept our actual plans so secret despite the flack she is getting for it. The noises being made by Trump regards bilateral deals and even UK entering a new NAFTA arrangement are already be making some bottoms squeaky in Germany, and Erdogans threat today to essentially ‘open the gates’ could be Nuclear to the upcoming elections.

Are you absolutely sure?

Are you a quitter?

A second referendum would be futile in that it would simply reinforce Brexit – ‘The 3rd Domino’ – the ensuing rejection of the Renzi referendum in Italy will most likely happen and then Austria – The E.U. is imploding – to advocate it’s survival is to advocate subordination of Europeans’ inalienable rights – Crazy times – that so many recognise these factors – intrinsically a slide towards fascist totalitarianism – but still see it as tangible system – Useful idiots don’t seem to recognise that the more they double down on their Stockholm Syndrome induced folly the more prevalent people’s desire for independence becomes – you’ve achieved noòthing more than furthering a global thirst for independence.

Just out of interest, Where did Weapon of mass destruction Dave GO?

Are you a lily-livered snowflake who doesn’t believe in their country? [/I]

Nah, just someone who doesn’t believe leaving is the right thing for MY country and MY family.

Personally, I don’t think it’ll impact us (wife and I) other than a bit of belt-tightening for a long period – probably up to retirement (early 50’s, for 10 years?)…

But I do think it will impact my 3 adult children and their families, which may then impact us if we need to help them out.

Erdogans threat today to essentially ‘open the gates’ could be Nuclear to the upcoming elections.

and having f***ed off the french, and obviously playing for the electorate, why bother doing anything to stop migrants crossing the channel. shut the border station at Calais and repatriate.

You think that if Le Pen wins in France there’s going to be camps full of immigrants at Calais waiting to cross the channel

There may well be camps of course 😈

Do you want to super-size that?

More seriously if it was round 2…

Knowing what you know now do you want to carry on with Brexit?

There was a lot of bull poop talked and misinformation the worst of which has now been outed on both sides so if there was to be a round 2 I think it should openly deal with that. It would also imo need to be done on a flash basis (no time for campaigning).

There should be No Second referendum because the result of the first one is very clear – We are leaving EU.

Now everyone is waiting for Trump’s first move. 😆

There will be No EU system in future and the question is how soon.

Chewk,still not chipping in for the price of Brexit by helping out the mag by buying a subscription?
Your actions have pushed their costs up.
Come on ,we’re all in this together.

Round 2 question
Yes or no, Should public referendum results be ignored by elected government?

😉

zippykona – Member
Chewk,still not chipping in for the price of Brexit by helping out the mag by buying a subscription?
Your actions have pushed their costs up.
Come on ,we’re all in this together.

What mag subscription? Seriously I don’t know what you are referring to. 😯

chipping in for the price of Brexit by helping out the mag by buying a subscription

Wow.

loum – Member
Round 2 question
Yes or no, Should public referendum results be ignored by elected government?

The round two question should be.

Should UK decide on whether to decide on having a second round referendum with the best of five wining deciding decision on deciding if there should be second round referendum? 😆

This already was a second referendum.

It’s currently one-all.

We need another one for the best of three.

edit – Shouldn’t post what I really think…

flap_jack – Member

This already was a second referendum.

It’s currently one-all.

We need another one for the best of three.

Nahh … we are still on deciding on whether to decide on second round referendum … 😛

First one 1975. I remember it well, same arguments but with integrity and without the lies. And those that actually fought for the country voted IN.

Nahh … we are still on deciding on whether to decide on second round referendum …

I disagree. 😉

edit – Shouldn’t post what I really think…

Your opinion was noted. As many have said, however, opinions are like arseholes….

Tony Benn never fought. Healey, Heath etc actually saw action, as did my parents. All IN.