If I am assuming that you are trying this 'lifestyle change' to lose some weight, then maybe knocking the puddings on the head for the foreseeable might be a good idea?

Fair point, and if there isn't anything permissable then they'll be shelved appropriately. I'm just considering whether there is anything that is permissable, because I can't think of it.

do you need a 'pudding'?

Growing up my mum always put a desert on the table. When I started cooking for myself, I stopped – and I only have something sweet when I want it, not automatically. Course, when I want it can be very frequently sometimes, but I've also figured out that a sweet tooth is a habit that can be broken.

The more sweet stuff you eat, the more you want.

Need. No. But I 'like' something small and sweet after a meal. Even if it's just a piece of fruit.

Seriously – I'm not trying to be difficult or anything, I'm just wondering if there is something that fits this category that I haven't thought of.

Even if it's just a piece of fruit.

Now way! You've been bad and you have to suffer 🙁

Barnes, you're being silly. iDave didn't say fruit was BAD, just that it's not on the diet.

tojv – I find coffee after a meal can often replace something sweet.

Or just mtfu and get out of that habit…

iDave didn't say fruit was BAD, just that it's not on the diet.

but without any reason that I could see…

fruit is bad

kill all fruit

death to mangos

destroy clementines

don't ever eat anything sweet from a tree

strive to life a live free from the wise disapproval of sfb

Simon, does this irritating habit of concentrating on the detail, while totally missing the overall picture extend to your work?
Do you work from home voluntarily, or did your employer ask you to?

but without any reason that I could see…

Did you come right out and say 'what's the theory behind this plan, iDave?'

Do you work from home voluntarily, or did your employer ask you to?

Lol 🙂

Need. No. But I 'like' something small and sweet after a meal. Even if it's just a piece of fruit.

have a grape.

but without any reason that I could see…

Yeah, cos that way leads to arguement, proof, etc, etc and a debate that you're gagging for to exercise your wiki-gene.

habit of concentrating on the detail, while totally missing the overall picture
Exactly !.

I'd have thought that a good thrashing on more than one occassion would have indicated to SFB that he would be better served spending his time elsewhere.
of course, I was assuming a bare minimum of intelligence could be relied upon.

Sadly in SFB's case this may not be true.
😉

S

I think he's off shoving another dictionary up his @rse.

Simon, does this irritating habit of concentrating on the detail, while totally missing the overall picture extend to your work?

ahem, I'm a programmer, irritating detail is all there is 🙂

strive to life a live free from the wise disapproval of sfb

do you mind? It's not me that's the fruitophobe :o)

I'd have thought that a good thrashing on more than one occassion would have indicated to SFB that he would be better served spending his time elsewhere.
of course, I was assuming a bare minimum of intelligence could be relied upon.

Thrashing ? I wish 🙂 Do you recall the thread about levels of intelligence a couple of weeks back ?

Did you come right out and say 'what's the theory behind this plan, iDave?'

I did ask "why no fruit?" right at the beginning, but answer came there none

vinnyeh – good loss for the first week. It's about the same as I had and is due in part to fluid loss from reduced carb intake. It is however, very important psychologically and is a great boost to carry on.

4 weeks are up for me tomorrow morning (my plan is virtually the same as idaves) and I'll post up loss to date after I weigh myself when I get up.

Got to be honest though, chips, chocolate and all the other snack crap I can do without but I really miss rice and pasta. Roll on my 'free-day' on Saturday 😐

I'm only 3 days in and struggling. So tired. I am eating a 3 egg omlette with veg in the morning, salad/pulses for lunch and soup or veg stir fry for dinner. I don't eat meat, so substitute something veggie/quorn.

I train in teh gym for around 45 minutes a day, and cycle around 20 miles per day to get to work and back – and a couple of sessions kickboxing and squash a week as well.

I don't know if it's all in my head, but I am really feeling knackered. Legs are loads heavier than usual. I have just scoffed a bag of walnuts, and had a soya protein shake to sort myself out…but can't help but think I need some carbs 🙁

I train in teh gym for around 45 minutes a day, and cycle around 20 miles per day to get to work and back – and a couple of sessions kickboxing and squash a week as well.

May I ask how you became a more sturdy individual doing all that exercise?

Incidentally I am also on day 3. Have scaled back some exercise just for the first week while my body adjusts….and by scaled back I mean couple of bike rides. Next week going to be banging on with resistance training and biking/running so will be interesting to see what occurs.

I put on weight easily – and I am getting older so it seems harder to shift.

Don't forget you can have one day eating a bit more vicariously….for me it will be tomorrow. Going to treat myself to some porridge…..oh has it come to this! 😈

May I ask how you became a more sturdy individual doing all that exercise?

exercise is rubbish for controlling weight because it stimulates the appetite and a huge amount of effort only uses up a small amount of food. A single Mars bar contains enough energy to lift an average sized person about 200m vertically with 20% efficient muscles which is the typical figure – further if your muscles are more efficient 🙁

I don't know if it's all in my head, but I am really feeling knackered.

Right, I expect flaming for this, but traditional wisdom is that you need carbs to exercise. So if you are doing a lot of exercise as part of your lifestyle, you need to eat carbs. Plus, if you tend to put on weight then my guess is that you could be like me, someone with lots of fast twitch muscle fibres which aren't so good for burning fat and need carbs to fuel them (so I'm told).

I don't think I'd be able to manage on the iDave diet whislt trying to ride a lot, which is why I'm not doing it.

exercise is rubbish for controlling weight because it stimulates the appetite and a huge amount of effort only uses up a small amount of food

Careful Barnes. Not all exercise is the same. Not all exercise stimulates appetite. You can cycle and burn up 800 calories an hour which, if you did a 5 hour ride, would theoretically (in your simple calculations) allows you to eat 16 mars bars and still break even. However it's a lot more complicated than that for the reasons discussed ad nauseum on here. Your body needs different energy sources for different metabolic pathways. Plus, there's the energy required to repair and restore your body after you finish exercising, which is significant.

Have you learned nothing?

exercise is rubbish for controlling weight because it stimulates the appetite and a huge amount of effort only uses up a small amount of food. A single Mars bar contains enough energy to lift an average sized person about 200m vertically with 20% efficient muscles which is the typical figure – further if your muscles are more efficient

Pish. A 10k run takes me about 40ish mins, so hardly a huge effort, and going on conservative estimates that would be 500ish calories burnt. Say i am eating 2000 calories a day that is 1/4 of my daily intake burned off to allow for either more food if maintaining weight or to create a deficit if I am trying to lose weight.

So I would say exercise works just fine for me and only runs of 13 miles or more would warrant a bit more extra food to keep the body fuelled up.

The first 3 days are a big shock to the system as it adjusts to the lack of carbs. This is why only moderate exercise ie. walking is recommended for the first 4 weeks of the plan I'm following. The combination of low carb and low to moderate intensity exercise is reckoned to be the most efficient way to preserve muscle and burn fat.

To quote "Walking also promotes the development of mitochondria, the body's fat burning furnaces"

There, that'll get Barnes scurrying off to Wiki 🙄

Your body needs different energy sources for different metabolic pathways.

it's the other way round, different foodstuffs are metabolised different ways, but apart from the trace thingies they can all supply energy

Plus, there's the energy required to repair and restore your body after you finish exercising, which is significant.

how many calories of repair per calorie of effort ?

If you eat fat, does your blood sugar go up?

A 10k run takes me about 40ish mins, so hardly a huge effort…

well that's a pretty good time for a 10k, well the ones I've taken part in which are cross country /trail.

my results get me in the top 10% of runners and you're quicker than I am.

here's a couple of results…
Swinley this year 40mins would put you 6th, I came in 24th at 45min…
http://www.racetimingsystems.com/public/results.aspx?raceid=1188

Highclere 2008 would put you 18th/400+ with 40min, I was 28th at 42min on this one…
http://www.newburyac.com/Highclere_overall_2008.htm

it's a pretty big effort for me and I'd struggle to beat those times. I don't how much quicker a 10k road run is, I've never done one.

Kev

just a quick heads up for everyone with any interest
i went to see a dietician/nutritionist today.
i was weighed and measured, my bmi taken, which i was worrying about.
my pulse and blood pressure were taken too.

the out come was that my blood pressure was ok, i was overweight as to be expected………..but the most interesting thing was that he told me i was pretty fit and with the plan/diet i was following i would get fitter, and that if you were a fit active person that the bmi thing is nothing to worry about.

i told him about this diet, and he told me it would be foolish to follow a diet with no carbs, even for a very short time.

Barnes, the answer's no.. fat doesn't put your blood sugar up.. meaning that different fuels are absorbed differently by your body and used differently.

AS BLOODY DISCUSSED ALREADY!

i told him about this diet, and he told me it would be foolish to follow a diet with no carbs, even for a very short time.

iDave's diet is not a diet with no carbs, it's a diet with low carbs.

If you eat fat, does your blood sugar go up?

I dunno, but fat is used by the body to store energy and is converted into glucose when needed. A more interesting question is, if you eat sugar or carbs does your blood sugar go up ? If carb digestion is rate limited as I've read, perhaps the liver and muscles can soak it up faster than the digestion can supply it?

well that's a pretty good time for a 10k, well the ones I've taken part in which are cross country /trail.

…my pb is 41:59 on road. Had to slow due to stitch. Most runs are off road and usually clock in around 43….not races mind, so should have been more specific.

i told him about this diet, and he told me it would be foolish to follow a diet with no carbs, even for a very short time.

As mentioned it is low carb as opposed to zero like Atkins. Plus you have the cheat day. I would say it is probably not sustainable, for me personally, but if it accelerates fat loss over a month or so then it's all good.

meaning that different fuels are absorbed differently by your body and used differently.

as I said just up there ^^^
"it's the other way round, different foodstuffs are metabolised different ways, but apart from the trace thingies they can all supply energy"

here's something else that's occurred to me – nearly half of all carbs (ie the carbon) and most of all fats (ditto) leave your body through your lungs 🙂 [assuming you're not putting on weight]

If carb digestion is rate limited as I've read, perhaps the liver and muscles can soak it up faster than the digestion can supply it?

trying to understand this… excuse me whilst I probably talk bollox..
isn't that why we get out of breath and still breath heavily after sudden demands of physical exertion ? …because the muscles demand fuel which isn't readily available so induces more oxygen than we can breath in an attempt to fuel the fire to burn more carbs ?

Kev

Where can i find the details ?

4 weeks in now

Starting weight 16st 8lbs
This morning 15st 4lbs

I feel great and will be even better when my breakfast of bacon, egg, mushrooms and tomato is ready

Day 4 I'll be honest. I feel a bit weak. I think my downfall was throwing in a 24m fast, for me, ride in on Tuesday night. Not much in itself, but probably not helpful while the body is adjusting to different fuel. Still deciding whether to use today as my off day or not. Are people going nuts on their off days, eating loaves of bread, or just having little treats?

Are people going nuts on their off days

Not quite going nuts but a large packet of chocolate digestives disappeared on my last 'off-day'. The key for me is to not have anything tempting in the house, which is fairly easy as I live alone. I also think that you get used to only eating certain things and cravings for the 'bad' stuff gradually disappear.

It should be my 'off-day' today but I'm going to hold back until Saturday as I'm going to Scotland and there is no way I'll be able to resist a black pudding supper + my Mother's cooking and I'll no doubt be forced to go to the pub with my old mates!

Not a problem though as I'll have a protein only day on Sunday to get things back on track and work off some of the excesses on my bike.

Keva, kind of. Apparently rate of breathing is usually controlled by the amount of CO2 that needs to be expelled, although I could be wrong.

I'm told that you need more oxygen to burn fat, so when you start reaching the limit of how much oxygen your blood can supply to your muscles, that's when you start using up more carbs. Interestingly that occurs way earlier than the point where you start breathing hard.

Someone correct me (other than Barnes) if I am wrong.

I'm told that you need more oxygen to burn fat

or anything else without its own oxidant 🙂