one with much less travel, but then it might not be built as strong as youre into the light XC racer market not the trail market.

Sounds like you like HT more than FS. Why spend £££ on a new FS?

Ride your hardtail? Ride more demanding terrain?

Unless you go to fort William and inhospitable cycling holidays then orange 5 is dull. I find lots of people buy bikes they would love to ride rather than bikes they will ride. A little like a woman buying a dress she can't fit into but promises herself she will get into it and go to the ball

If were honest most of use don't use our full travel and could have lighter frames. Britain has some wonderful rides, just most of us don't use them often enough to warrant an all mountain bike

For similar damage limitation to the Five, but with more zing and pop the new Cotic Rocket is getting very favourable initial feedback. Or get a burlier hardtail?

International Richard think you have hit it on the head, what did you get when you sold your five?

Bagstard, ride the hardtail all the time, I think its more the guilt f having a bike that I very rarely ride that bugs me.

Crashtestmonkey, your right there are plenty of lightweight 120mm bikes, but they are all fairly light weight. Why spend £££, well I have £££ worth of bike that I never ride so I guess thats why.

blue pig.

fast, simple and fun on the downs, but get loose and it gives you a good kicking without throwing you off.

perfect for me. best bike i've owned for exactly the reason you mention. got bored on FS.

oh and it cost me £150. and hasn't broken.

value. simplicity. awesomeness.

Bagstard, ride the hardtail all the time, I think its more the guilt f having a bike that I very rarely ride that bugs me.

Same for me I think. I only really bought mine for a trip to Whistler but now feel like I should still be riding it! It does help with confidence but there's not much use for 7" of travel when all you ride (apart from special trips away) is Woburn.

I bought a Blood instead of a Five, haven't looked back. Let my heart rule my head, fantastic decision 🙂

what colour brake levers to go with blue pig? 😀

tracknicko, sounds like the Decade Virsa I have, perhaps I should get rid of it and get something more boring, so I enjoy the five more...

I've just swopped my 5 for a santa Cruz Butcher , climbs well and doesn't feel too big a bike, but will be more maintenace in the end 8 bearings instead of 2 but I wanted to change after 2 years on a 5 ,
you can still xc on a big bike just needs a bit more effort.

Ride some more technical terrain!

Agreed with International Richard. Had a Five, great bike, perfect for me on my annual trip to the alps but took a lot of the difficulty out of the trails where i do 99% of my riding so back on a hardtail. You get more beaten up but its easier to achieve that sketchy on the edge of control feeling more frequently and that is where the fun is for me.

I disagree that big bikes like the 5 are dull on tamer trails, and think its a hoary old myth, but if you (and IR) don't enjoy the experience of the 5 and enjoy the HT, sounds like you should consider selling the 5 and either banking the money, or upgrading your HT.

I have a Dialled Alpine which is an absolute hoot and brings out the 12yr old in me. I also have an Orange Alpine 160 which is bigger than the 5. It comes into its own on big holidays (Alps, Rockies, Spain, India...) but I also enjoy riding around my local trails (Chilterns, Woburn etc) and dont think it feels remote or sterilised. As you disagree it sounds like big FS isnt for you. Sell it, end the guilt and celebrate the HT!

I sold my Five on the basis I preferred my blue pig!

before you throw a load of money at a frame try some different tyres. On less demanding terain my transition bandit is fantastic with a pair of specialised renegade 1.9s. sooooo fast and looooooose. If not the frame you want is the transition double.

Buy a penny farthing or move to the lake district

IMHO, the Five is perhaps the perfect bike for the technical terrain from whence it cometh. (eg "sweary northerners" Calderdale slow-tech stuff).
If I was planning to ride a moorland singletrack, I'd leave my Five at home and take the Rockhopper out instead.
As ^^^ they've said, why not find some more challenging terrain to appreciate why predicatable and reliable are good qualities.

I guess I'm suffering from a combination of bike and location disillusionment. Having lived in North Wales last year, and moved back down south in September.

I need to move house, not change the bike...

It does seem an odd statement by the OP. Why would you want an unpredictable bike? 😯 It's about the type of terrain you ride and you don't have to go to the Lakes or scotland to find difficult to ride places. Try finding more challenging lines/obstacles locally? 😀 (edit..think I've just repeated what folk have already said..sorry)

OP, I know exactly where you are coming from.

Bought a Five two years ago and it has been great for the Alps and trips to Scotland.

I love riding it and think its a great bike, but when I take it to the Surrey Hills/Swinley etc, it is just too easy to ride, and as you say you can just let go of the brakes and it takes care of itself.

So i switched back to a hardtail (BFe) for local rides. Much more engaging and requires me to think more, so seems more satisfying to ride and more on the edge.

Can relate to the guilt. Five just sits in the garage gathering dust for 51 weeks of the year. Seems a complete waste.

Am tempted by the Rocket, but think that it will also see limited use. I just live somewhere where its too flat to justify a FS these days.

However, if I lived somewhere like the Lakes/Wales Im sure it would be my first choice everytime.

I can somewhat relate to the OP.

I have a 6" bike, ride the peaks, it's only when im proper DHing, the alps, wharnecliffe, uplift days and proper DH spots that i get any excitement on it now. On peaks loops, i ride 99% of the time with forks wound down to 115mm, rear shock on firmest compression setting to get any excitement on your typical peaks loops.

Just debating picking up a 100mm hardtail (charge blender) with a poor spec to make the peaks jaunts more exciting.

It's all well and good telling the OP to ride more technical stuff, but generally, rides that encompass the really technical stuff either discriminates people from the ride or doesn't form a good loop. But it is all down to location of course. Sometimes you want to cover ground and have excitement, the two don't always go together.

To the OP, there are a variety of full sus slopestyle frames out there, 100mm of form suspension, however they normally have short seat tubes and poor in the saddle geo.

A trek fuel ex is a robust bike, that maybe a good option?

Old style Trance frame is what you need. 100mm travel in a frame that is heavily overbuilt & rides lovely with a 140mm fork up front.

Old style Trance frame is what you need. 100mm travel in a frame that is heavily overbuilt & rides lovely with a 140mm fork up front.

that's exactly what i had before the blue pig! (trances mk1+mk2/pikes)

was sodding ace, but whilst the frames lasted, the bearings, bushings and shocks did not.

I think what's becoming clear is not that the Five is boring (which what I understood the OP to mean) but that his local riding is relatively tame and no challenge for the Five. It's merely a case of horses for courses. Could just stick a bit more air in rear shock and put propedal on max and perhaps lower forks/firm them up.
For maximum unpredictability stick the stock moutain king tyres back on! 😆

[i]I think what's becoming clear is not that the Five is boring (which what I understood the OP to mean) but that his local riding is relatively tame and no challenge for the Five. It's merely a case of horses for courses.[/i]
Exactly that. I'll never get shot of my HT but nowadays I only use it on local rides (which are pretty tame) I've used it in the Alps years ago & looking back I wonder how I survived! Ok, my 5's a lot more capable than I'll ever be now but It's sooo comfy & at my age I need some cushioning! 😉

Unless you go to fort William and inhospitable cycling holidays then orange 5 is dull

International Richard think you have hit it on the head

Nah, I reckon he slipped and skelped his thumb good and hard with that comment. Theres far more gnarlier places in Scotland than fort flippin william!

I guess what I want is a FS bike that rides like my hardtail, is there such a thing?

Take the wheels and drive train of your 5, buy a cotic BFE (or a soul maybe) sell the 5 frame and fork. build up your cotic out of parts from the 5 and a new fork.

That makes no sense to me,mucky. I drive something that is like a golf,built like a golf,has so many parts the same as a golf and its lasted 3 times longer than the golfs on the road today!

Skoda?

Just that daveagiles is asking for a bike that rides like a HT but is an FS, just get a HT.

A bike that can handle me having a go, not snapping at the first sign of a badly landed jump.

Just sell the 5 and ride your HT. Or ride the 5 and ride it faster! Also this:

For maximum unpredictability stick the stock moutain king tyres back on!

The full sus I had the most fun on was my 2007 Commencal Meta4, I think it was the combination of it's travel, all 100mm of it, the frame robustness (not super light weight as the travel might suggest) and geometry - didn't feel it was too much bike for tamer trails or all dayers, but when the terrain got more serious it made for a lively ride.

Commencal Meta 4X looks like an absolute hoot if you can find one.

hmmm. i live in the centre of what you might consider decent riding and still find my HT a whole lot more fun than my FS.

i tend to most enjoy trails that are so technical i can barely clean them on a dry day, and tend to fall off about once every 2 rides, primarily as a result of sketchy terrain/over enthusiasm.

just sell the sodding thing!

I've also retired my prophet frame and am considering selling (although not sure I really want to). I don't think it's about how hard the trails I ride are, but how fast they are. A lot of what we ride is relatively slow and steep, so the suspension felt not very useful. On faster, rocky open stuff it's great (although the HT with a 2.4 advantage on the back is pretty damn fun too), but I don't ride that stuff as often and it's hard to justify a whole bike for a handful of rides a year when the HT actually isn't that much of a compromise on those trails anyway.

Can't believe no-one's suggested an Anthem...

The bike shouldn't matter too much - where you ride it is more important

Commencal Meta 4X looks like an absolute hoot if you can find one.

Yep, although apparently not great on longer rides, can't put the seat up far enough etc.

I had exactly the same debate as the OP when I went for a new frame. More travel makes downhills more boring, and uphills harder work. If you're someone like me that doesn't mind a bit of climbing but really lives for the downhills, then my theory is that a lighter, less-travel full sus is faster on the way up (less pain) and more exciting on the way down.

I love my ASR-5 for this reason. At 127mm, I know it's not 'short travel' compared with what we're used to, but it definitely [i]is[/i] compared to most current 'trail' bikes. It's lightweight and it's firm, but it's also stiff and slack so it'll go exactly where you stick it. Yeti call it their cheater bike - it's a whippet uphill but you can thrash it downhill. It's not got all the travel in the world so you can end up getting caught out if you get a line wrong. Not a particularly cheap option but riding isn't a cheap sport.

Buy a bike for the trails you ride 90% of the time. Buying a bike that's overkill for your local trails but would be a bit better if you go to the alps is stupid IMO (buy a separate DH bike).

For years, I've had 2 mtbs.

One hardtail (it's been singlespeed and geared and 2 different frames) with an 80mm air fork and fairly light bits. I've used it on the rockiest & longest of natural trails, at trail centres, UK mountains, Les Arcs and anything else you can think of. It's taken a pounding, is good fun and demonstrates that you can have fun on a cheap and cheerful machine. The current frame being Ex-Binners!

The other bike has been a chunkier hardtail / full-susser at various times. Currently in fully coil-sprung, full-suss, chunky-upright-all-day-all-mountain-heavy-enough-to-keep-you-honest-on-the-ups spec. Its been ridden on many of exactly the same trails as the hardtail. This bike is more forgiving on technical trails.

When I decide to ride I choose which bike I want to ride based upon:

where I'm going,
who I'm going with
what I feel like
which bike is working

eg. For bimbling around a flat forest I don't see any need for a big, full susser, no point having to wait for hours at the bottom of every descent or being very slow on every up.

Choose your battle and choose your weapon.

I still want to have a go on a DMR Bolt but emailed them about where to demo and never got a response. I think it'd be fun to ride but they're really heavy so maybe not one for the climbs.

i like my full suspension bike. I do like hardtails but I would rather spend the money on a cx bike. I can't afford either so for now I will stick to what I own.

I went from rigid MTBs to HTs, to 5" FS, to 100mm FS, back to HTs and then to CX over the course of 20 years. Now I own a HT and a CX

So I've really gone full circle 🙂

The places I ride didn't change, but my bikes did. My purchases were not driven by the trails, but by fashion IMHO.

Love my five. If it bores you ride faster.

have an orange and I take it to big mountains and nothing else
Ride a HT the reest of the time and SS in winter

I have just the one bike (a Five with coil front and rear) and so I use it for everything. It also has supertackies on so not the lightest build but it suits the type of riding I do round Halifax. If I do longer type rides, yes it will be compromised, but I just put up with the fact that it will be a little harder on the climbs than a lighter build. I've built it for the type of riding I do/enjoy the most. 😀

Cheers for the opinions, its been an interesting read as always!

I think I'm going to get on with enjoying my hardtail down here in the south and just think of my five as a bike for things when I go away.

Although, saying that I have been looking at Giant Trances, they sound good...

A Transition Double sounds a bit like what you're after

I would love to have a go on a tr double, looking at it I'm just not sure it would be as fun after dragging up the nth hill as it was after the first.

The tr Bandit looks great to though.

daveagiles - Member
International Richard think you have hit it on the head, what did you get when you sold your five?

Sold the bike 2nd hand to a friend for £1850 after 6 or so months, twas an Orange 5am. I've been on 2 decent cycling holidays, done quite a bit of gnarly stuff too but i'm talking over 10 years.

My bread and butter is a sterile trail centre! Why? cos i've got work, kids and wife with all the joys that come with running them to football practice, homework, overtime and of course some gentle love making. I probably go where my orange 5am would be appropriate about once, twice per year... sad but true

Ride bigger stuff I did an uplift day @ cwmcarn downhill and five coped fairly well, never really missed a beat after 11runs, I was trying to keep up with my mate who races dh on his new foes. Not a chuffin hope really but did overtake some geezer on a trek session. Mwahhh hhhah hhaaaaa.

A 120mm carbon full sus will allow you to really attack technical xc, whilst still be light enough for xc. Especially if you go for carbon, better power trnsfer, stiffer, lighter. Oh yeah. Much faster and more fun than a hardtail on proper trails.

But....to the guys saying a five is dull anywhere but the alps or fort Bill, seriously, drive somewhere. And ride faster. Much much faster.

Love my Five on the right trail. However my iOID gets far more use. It's so much more fun to ride on twisty single track.

Horses for courses and all that.....

blue pig.

fast, simple and fun on the downs, but get loose and it gives you a good kicking without throwing you off.

perfect for me. best bike i've owned for exactly the reason you mention. got bored on FS.

That's good to hear. I might be getting one as I'm bored with my FS bike.

I ride an 08 Trance x2 with a Pike and really like it...but got the feeling my technique was getting mushy so built up a Dialled PA rigid 69er and also really like that. I committed to the PA exclusively for a while and was noticeably sharper when I came back to the Trance.

I fear a Trance may bore you too, they work very well! Try putting a rigid fork in your Virsa (26" or 29") it's odd, but not bad.

Theres far more gnarlier places in Scotland than fort flippin william!

Too true....

If you rode at places like coed-y-brenin then you wouldn't last two minutes on a hardtail! I've started riding the black routes and tbh I don't think you'd get around it on a hardtail without pushing sections. My five is a fabulous bike which gives me the confidence to ride such aggressive terrain. 8)

I miss my inbred for its constant I'm going to die any minute feeling - the five Is far better but a different ride, I can push the boundaries much further now. I'm less mince and more mincecorre on the five. That said I'm off to Wales in a mo and fully expect to eat my words and feel the I'm going to die any minute feeling :/

Sold my Ventana FS last year, trails are much more fun on a rigid clown wheeler. Trying a mates FS the other week confirmed my decision. Loving my riding again, & getting something out of it that I last got pre FS days.
I'd still love a Five though. 🙂

If you rode at places like coed-y-brenin then you wouldn't last two minutes on a hardtail! I've started riding the black routes and tbh I don't think you'd get around it on a hardtail without pushing sections. My five is a fabulous bike which gives me the confidence to ride such aggressive terrain.

I've ridden those on everything from a unicycle, through a rigid singlespeed to a big-hit & they're all fun, all rideable, just different.

Try and get spesh camber on a demo it rides like a hardtail but has the give when the going gets rough i always ride hardtails as neve rode a fs that exited me but the camber is the closest iv come.

If you rode at places like coed-y-brenin then you wouldn't last two minutes on a hardtail! I've started riding the black routes and tbh I don't think you'd get around it on a hardtail without pushing sections. My five is a fabulous bike which gives me the confidence to ride such aggressive terrain

I do hope that was supposed to be tongue in cheek.

Although, saying that I have been looking at Giant Trances, they sound good...

They are good and very efficient so if you find your 5 boring I'd imagine you would find the Trance boringer? Personally I'd just go for a hardtail rather than a shorter travel FS bike. I think if you're going to have full suspension you may as well have loads of it or none at all but that's just me.

if you rode at places like coed-y-brenin then you wouldn't last two minutes on a hardtail! I've started riding the black routes and tbh I don't think you'd get around it on a hardtail without pushing sections. My five is a fabulous bike which gives me the confidence to ride such aggressive terrain

STW Troll Of The Week.

Any one that rides coed-y-brenin on a hardtail must be some sort of riding god 😉

ha ha!

next!

Transition bandit, Whyte T120, Yeti ASR5, Trek EX8, Santa Cruz Nickel. Loads of full suss bikes that have less travel, more pop and still strong enough to handle Alpine/Scottish/Lakes/Dutch cycle paths. Unless you are doing 10ft drops and huge doubles it's still just trail riding surely?

It sounds like there's no need to get the 'hardcore' short travel, as you're not hitting stuff hard enough to warrent it (please don't take this wrongly, even orange reckon that most people on a 5 should be on an ST4)
A friend and myself often ride together around the southwest. He's got a 5, I've got an Anthem x1. We swap bikes every so often, and find that the 5 really does need something pretty hairy to become fun (and by hairy I mean something far more difficult than I've found at a trail centre), however, when you're pushing, it really is a huge amount of fun. The Anthem is better for all day riding generally, as in it'll climb better, be less effort to ride along the flat and be [i]almost[/i] as much fun on the decents, but you've got to get the line right as it'll bite when you try to plough through/over everything in your way.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the 100mm xc machine is better for the style of riding I do, and the 5 would be better for the mental, alpine descents I'm not really good enough to do justice to, but that doesn't stop it from being one hell of a bike, oh, and really quite sellable second hand!

+1 orange blood

it makes no sense (more bearings, less travel, chopper angles) but is so much fun. a bit of a go-er if you know what i mean

Come on 'fess up, rupertpostlethwaite has got to be the troll-alter-ego of one of the regulars on here. But who?

The comments on here about CYB and those on the "sweary northerners" vids, just subtle enough to hook a response. 😆

Yep, agree. Says he rides a five so could actually be one of the sweary northerners?

Old thread I know but recently been round this conundrum with my garage of bikes (2007 Spesh Stumpy FSR 07, 2000 'Dale F1000SL and 2011 Boardman HT). Spesh not enough fun for me and too many pivots needing maintenance, Dale F1000SL was too XC for me and the Boardman was OK (apart from having a BB30). Wanted something a bit more fun though but didn't really get the use out of FS like the OP. Always had a weak spot for a good HT.

So I took the parts off the Boardman and put them on a Santa Cruz Chameleon.

My skills are less than my ability to pick up speed so a 26 HT is excellent for me (riding in the South): fewer crashes... Despite not being a 29er or carbon or FS (or all of the above) like most bikes I see on rides, I always have - shock horror - loads of fun on it. Just needs a type 2 rear mech now and potentially lighter wheels.

Another one for the Blood.
Decided that now that mine is a bit battered I would get it resprayed and all the bearings done and refurbish it generally - much cheaper than a new bike for my birthday. I bought it originally because I love hardtails but they do end up being a bit limiting in some circumstances. Also have a Soul, a rigid and a downhill bike for uplifts and keeping up with the kids but most of my time is on the Soul or the Blood depending on where and with whom I am riding.

I'd say keep the 5 and ride faster. You can achieve that "on the edge" feeling, just at a far higher point to point speed, as well as having option to hunt out steeper terrain!

Early Hemlock. 100mm rear with 160 front.

I'm in a similar boat at the minute. I have a 6 month old Nukeproof scalp with the unbelievable cane creek DB shock bolted on it but in the 6 months I've owned it I've used it twice and now I don't race anymore there is zero point in me owning it so as painful as it will be to see it go, go it must. Plan is to try and swap it for a beefy burly short travel slope style type bike. After riding the YT play last week I realised that for proper fun on the UK's fairly tame downhills this is the sort of bike that wins.

Higher speeds = bigger accidents
Steeper terrain = bigger accidents

It's the same as many things, cars, motorbikes etc., sometimes what you want is fun that is accessible. Genesis Grapil is worth a look.

Orange Five is the future. Embrace it. Enjoy it. Dont let anyone tell you to sell it.

I love my Five even though i never ride it.

But it looks great in the garage.

Getting a CCDB for mine, so it will look even more rad in the garage.

Love the alps comments 🙂 Weekly riding was generally more tech than the Alps back up north.

Would also suggest other manufacturers are available who make a different style of bike.