I get £40K a year.

I get it for being in charge of an Intensive Care unit, no car, no perks, working nights, working three weekends out of four.

Oohh matron!

My Mrs is often in charge of a HDU & she’s only on 27K! hows that work out? Or did you mean your’e a manager of an IC unit?

It sounds like your company has a policy of employing everyone in a level above their capacity.

Yep, if someone managing a sales team brining in millions has to ask for management advice on a relatively obscure bike forum, they really, really shouldn’t be in sales management. Sorry if that’s rather harsh, but it is true.

Look – the OP realises the situation hasn’t been handled well, he doesn’t want a character assassination, just some sensible suggestions on how to deal with it.

My Mrs is often in charge of a HDU & she’s only on 27K! hows that work out?

I think it’s because she’s a lady. 😈

That’s £40K all in; including nights, weekends, etc. Band 6..

Look – the OP realises the situation hasn’t been handled well, he doesn’t want a character assassination, just some sensible suggestions on how to deal with it.

With all due respect, shouldn’t the sales manager already be up to speed on this type of thing, it’s not that hard.

“This chap has come from a competitor with 20 years experience, he’s no newbie to this game.”

This is your problem, he’s a dinosaur and is doing what he has always done in his comfort zone. KPI’s are there for your protection as much as the sales guys. If they can’t or don’t understand this, it forms part of their basic employment contract for my guys. Any of my guys would have been taken down disciplinary by now unless there is a valid reason.

I support everyone as far as i can, but ultimately there is a job to do. He’s paid as a professional, so you expect this in return. Manage him out of the business or you’ll suffer as a result, unless you have no other option but to keep him.

Manage him out of the business

I’m not up to speed on the latest business lingo, so what exactly, this dinosaur is wondering, does this mean?

Chicken wire, concrete… You get the picture..

It means make him want to leave, but try not to get sued for constructive dismissal. And it is a ****’s trick. Luckily, most people who sink to trying it are bad at it.

So it is constructive dismissal then.
Surely the solution should be positive.
1st meeting to identify what is going and why.
Address these problems and then give it time to see results.
Maybe the employee feels there isn’t enough support or training, maybe the micro management makes them uneasy or even something else entirely.
2nd meeting to assess progress and offer more support to achieve results, I mean both sides want a positive result don’t they and the employee has 20 good years behind him or the new company wouldn’t have employed him, no?
IIRC this would then lead to the third meeting which would be D-day, at which point the training/support/environmental improvements will be in place in which case the employee goes on as a valued employee to enjoy a successful career or another, more suitable position is found for him.
Simples.

…which should all have been done a long, long time ago.

more suitable position is found for him.

Police commissioner ?

…which should all have been done a long, long time ago.

Well, yes, but c-g is having a downer on negative posts and it’s not to late to start the process. Better than spouting on about KPIs and dressing up constructive dismissal. 😉

Well, yes, but c-g is having a downer on negative posts and it’s not to late to start the process. Better than spouting on about KPIs and dressing up constructive dismissal.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Yes, ok, point taken.
Better to do it right a bit late rather than do it wrong now. 🙂

Geordie mick in your profile you give your full name also your location, so easy to track down the company you work for isnt it, i think a new job may be on the cards for you .

But thats just my opinion and it seems a few others share the same view.

Better to do it right a bit late rather than do it wrong now.

I’m quite interested in how the guy has been successful, and I assume successful, for 20 years then suddenly gives up. The other side would be interesting to hear.
As for being a dinosaur, I aspire to being a dinosaur. 😀

It seems to me that if you just sack him with little or no grounds then he has to fork out £20,000ish, which he probably hasn’t got, to try and gainsay you through a tribunal. The world is run by fascist capitalist scccccccc afterall….so just sack everybody….and don’t worry your pretty little head about it.

And make sure you sack your solicitor and all. He/she sounds useless.

Sack yourself…..then you won’t have to worry anymore

40K a year and you say he broaght in over £300K sales last year? Sounds like he is making the company money so whats the problem

40K a year and you say he broaght in over £300K sales last year? Sounds like he is making the company money so whats the problem

I imagine they work to quite tight margins in wholesale. I should think a reps costs a company somewhere in the region of 70k a year to run.

If he can do the job, but can’t be arsed, manage him out of the business on conduct.
If he can’t do the job, throw in some training and get rid of him through capability.

Good luck also with advice on a public forum !

So glad I don’t work in sales any more. it’s like selling your soul to the devil while he rapes you, your mother and your wife (in no particular order) without cleaning himself in between.

I’ve just emailed you a shameless plug for the HR consultancy that my wife has recently set up. We’re fairly local to you too.

So it’s taken twelve months to figure out that this guy is not up to par? How did he pass the probationary period stipulated in his contract of employment?

Micro-managing the guy and breathing down his neck could easily backfire. You also have an obligation to allow a third party (nominated by the employee) to attend the disciplinary meeting too – it might pay to make him aware of this, especially if you suspect he’s susceptible to stress.

Perhaps setting him a turnaround target as other posters have suggested is the best way forward? If you meet with the guy every few weeks during this time forward, you might be able to help him figure it out. After all, he’s got twenty years experience, you might even make a model employee out of the guy. But you do need to explain to him that you’re trying to help him to improve his performance.

There was me setting up my account to use this forum – and then I read this. You lot are unbelievable. I know this is the ‘chat forum’ but do you all have to be so boring, vindictive and juvenile? Here you are, talking about someones career in public, not by name but in what is probably a libelous manner – what happened to employer employee confidentiality? And then I read “Everyone working in the public sector is “f*ing lazy”? Thats the most hilarious thing I’ve ever read. If this thread is in any way representative of this forums users… I won’t even bother using my account.

To be frank you need to get rid of him quick. Give him a POGO (perform or go) plan. As said before as give him a minimum a quarterly revenue target and review his plan to hit the target as part of the weekly review. If he’s experienced he will know that the writing is on the wall and will jump before he’s pushed.You need to formally notify him of that his failure to hit his previous target is concerning and the company cannot afford for this to continue hence the need to have a more defined process for analysing his performance.

You need to set targets for appointments, pipeline review (i.e. is he progressing his opportunities) and review weekly. You need to be quite blunt and say that you will be accompanying him on calls, not necessarily all of them but at least a 1/3rd of them, to coach him and identify why deals aren’t happening (also to make sure he’s going on them). Get him to copy you on correspondence with prospects, customers to make sure he’s doing what you expect him to do. He may object but as he’s so far short of target drastic action is called for to protect the company’s position.

to coach him and identify why deals aren’t happening

Nothing like trying to teach your gran how to suck eggs. 😆

If you’re upset by this thread, don’t bother hanging around….

If this thread is in any way representative of this forums users… I won’t even bother using my account.

Um…. lots of people have pointed out (rightly IMO) how unprofessional and inappropriate it was to even start this thread.

he doesn’t want a character assassination, just some sensible suggestions on how to deal with it.

The answer is to go and ask a grown up.

First stop is with the inhouse lawyer, but if they’re not up to the task, then buy in some legal advice. It’ll be awful lot cheaper than this train wreck is otherwise going to turn out to be.

If you’re upset by this thread, don’t bother hanging around….

Probably wont.. 80% of the topics are about ‘old age’ operations people have had, how they can save weight for their ‘race season’ on their on one hardtail or about problems at work. Not my sort of bike forum clearly.

Um…. lots of people have pointed out (rightly IMO) how unprofessional and inappropriate it was to even start this thread.

I didn’t feel I was flogging a dead horse by writing my opinion… so I did. Is that a problem on this forum or?… And if you agree then why is there an issue?

Hmm. This is an accusation that gets thrown around a bit too often on here, but I wonder who else Nukeproofriding is?

See those buttons for “Bike Forum” and “Chat Forum”? You can use those to filter out most of the stuff you aren’t interested in.

Northwind –

Hmm. This is an accusation that gets thrown around a bit too often on here, but I wonder who else Nukeproofriding is?

‘Who else I am’? What does that mean? Anyway, on topic, OP should take this travesty of a post down and quit his job. Do you all work 10.30 to 4.30 jobs in a council office? Apparently all of us in the private sector are lazy feckers and no one seemed to take offence to that, so you must all be on cushy wages with holidays coming out of your ears and no connection to the real world.

I didn’t take offence because I don’t even work 😆

20 years doing the same thing year on year rather than 20 years of business development and doing new things. Sometimes this is a good thing if he’s doing it right, but it depends how those skills transfer to the new job.

My previous post was out of line. You really need to try and help the guy to get him to improve. Generally first year, will always be tough, so point him in the right direction and work with him to see where it goes , he might just need a bit of time to get out the cycle he was in previously.

only read page 1 so far but a few replies…

1) I’ve only been his manager for two months, him bumbling about for last twelve months is because we work for a small family firm who believed that when they took him on they should feel that someone of his age, experience and calibre should be capable of getting out of bed in the morning and doing a days work, without someone having to call him, get him out of bed and chase him out the door.

2) He won’t find it on here, there’s no link to my employer in my profile and this fella has absolutely no chance of finding this.

3)Why should I resign from my job?? I’ve come on here for opinions as the company I work for have left me in a position because their ‘old family firm’ of solicitors have left me in a position where they won’t give an opinion either way. I thought that the plethora of STW armchair lawyers would have come up with something but instead, just like when someone posts up about BMW, Audi etc the envy mongers come out of their cave’s and start getting personal because they got shit jobs and drive shit cars…….

2) He won’t find it on here, there’s no link to my employer in my profile and this fella has absolutely no chance of finding this.

Do you work for an electrical wholesaler?

As a sales manager myself, I fully sympathise, especially if you’ve inherited this guy.

I’d suggest he is suffering standard sales burnout.

Put together a performance plan with clear 2 way objectives and very clear timescales to turn things round, make them achievable goals so you can’t be hit for constructive dismissal, then let it run it’s course.

If you want, I have a number of very good bits of paperwork I use for stuff like this that I can send you.

Oh and check out Sean McPheat’s sales training and management site. Lots of very good resource there.

Let me know if you want any direct advice!

wow– OP– knickers are twisted there, fwiw, i ride bikes, cars are not important, shit job– don’t deal with them–

as for you and your ‘problem’– best to deal with it in a professional manner.