His weight is back, as well as dropped- if you look, the front wheel’s already dropping and he’s rotating with the bike. I got the perfect view from immediately behind him 😆 His cog was way further back than mine, just that he put it there about 2 minutes too early, like he’d seen photos of how to drop but never a video.

@Jim, ye of little faith! (super mega bloody slow, though, I didn’t want to ride over the dead frenchman)

Tom_W1987
No, he’s way to far over the back to early on – his body positioning is horrible. That meant the wheel dropped away from him.

The crucial bit to remember, is once your arms are straight, they can’t get any longer!
What i mean by this is that if you arms are locked straight out in front of you, if/when the front of the bike drops, then the handlebars pull on your arms, and your mass gets pulled forwards and over the bars.
And unless you got Mr Tickle arms, there will be NOTHING you can do about it. This is why it’s so important to be properly centred and use a pump(linked to your speed, not the size of the drop) to dynamically unweight the front wheel, just for the period of time it takes for the rear wheel to get to the lip and drop off.
If you start too far back, too soon, it’s only going to end one way. Unfortunately, the more scared of going OTB you are, the more you’re likely to try to get back too soon, and hence the more likely you’ll get pulled forwards and actually go OTB!

Have a look at Northwinds first photo, and you can see, that if the front wheel so much drops an inch, it’ll be pulling the rider OTB!

in the first pic his weight is not properly back.
his cranks are level rather than rear pedal dropped. (which means he isn’t pushing forward with his feet).
and his knees are bent too much. straighter would put his weight way further back.

classic 5:10/SPD poor footwork*

*Oh how I hate skillz course terminology but it’s what folk here understand

in the first pic his weight is not properly back.
his cranks are level rather than rear pedal dropped. (which means he isn’t pushing forward with his feet).
and his knees are bent too much. straighter would put his weight way further back.

classic 5:10/SPD poor footwork*

How much more back can you get, his arms aren’t far from being locked out? That’s way to far back already! How do some of you guys not end up like Michael Schumacher? 😀

if you can’t manual. I wouldn’t necessarily expect you to understand just how far back you can get your weight. if you can manual well. you should be able to hold your front wheel an inch from the ground while rolling. think about how far back your centre of gravity has to be to hold this.

@Tom- the real problem was nothing to do with where his weight was- it was when it got there. He moved back (and down) right back on the woodwork and rode off the edge like a statue so there was no push/weight transfer at all.

All credit to him though, he rode off down the hill despite being completely ****ed.

Who bothers to manual off drops at any half decent speed? That’s a proper point and shoot drop if I ever saw one.

anyone who can manual Tom.
and anyone who can manual well can save a dropped front wheel when being a fanny

Never had to manual a fastish drop as I’ve never approached one that I’ve commited to on the brakes 😛

This’ll do…
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_nOiO8I6K4[/video]

Never had to manual a fastish drop as I’ve never approached one that I’ve commited to on the brakes

I’m too tired to even begin to comprehend what this sentence is meant to mean.
night all.

I can’t comprehend why you’d attempt to manual a drop on anything except really slow stuff.

I mean, even this is slow…and big to boot and the rider only puts in the smallest of input

There’s nothing like the huge amounts of body english some of you are talking about doing.

mtbel
if you can’t manual. I wouldn’t necessarily expect you to understand just how far back you can get your weight. if you can manual well. you should be able to hold your front wheel an inch from the ground while rolling. think about how far back your centre of gravity has to be to hold this.

The difference is between being dynamically balance and being statically balanced. Because your mass is so much more than that of your bike, you can use pumping to unweight the bike transiently (the average weight is unchanged, but you make it “heavy” for a bit by pumping the bike into the ground so that when it (and you) rebounds, it’s “light” for a bit). At some speed, the time you need to complete the maneouver becomes too long for any sensible transient unweighting, and at this point, you must actually centre your combined CofG directly over the rear wheel contact patch. However, again, unless you are Mr Tickle, to do this you will effectively have to shorten the wheel base of your bike, by pushing though with your heals, poping the bike upwards into the classic manual position (also used by trails riders for any time they need to stay balanced on the back wheel).

Have a look at the angle of a normal sized MTB needed to do this (you can’t do it by just moving backwards, unless your bike is comically too small for you (ie a BMX as in the vid up there^^^ 😉

That^^^ is the sort of angle you need to get your combined CofG over the rear wheel centre!

What Max says, who clearly has a better technical understanding of bike dynamics than me.

I wouldn’t attempt. I’d achieve.

I personally find it easier to control the bikes dip in the air from a manual which helps allow me to land more smoothly (especially when dropping using a hardtail or BMX)

Pointless, even if you can do it, you should try and stay as central in the bike as you can get away with during any given situation.

Tom I think you are confusing Max using a lot of impressive words with having a good understanding of bike dynamics.
Max is wrong on a couple of points:
firstly, as I said before, think about how far back your weight has to be to manual with your front wheel only an inch from the ground?
secondly, I can lift the front of my hardtail by simply rotating my weight rearwards (as above) and a slight push from my feet. no front wheel pump required whatsoever.
Your high front wheel manual pic is a really poor example of how far back you can move your weight.

now you are making up rules for no actual reason Tom.

I spent years around the downhill races as my brother was a sponsored rider mtbel, I’ve never once met or ridden with anyone who bothers to manual downhill style drops.

slight push from my feet.

That’s part of a normal pumping technique! It’s still not manualing off a damn drop!

mtbel
Tom I think you are confusing Max using a lot of impressive words for a good understanding of bike dynamics.
Max is wrong on a couple of points:
firstly, as I said before, think about how far back your weight has to be to manual with your front wheel only an inch from the ground?

Is this you mtbel?

😉

More seriously, on a proper, full sized mountain bike, unless you’ve got your stem on backwards, or are wearing a backpack full of concrete, there’s no way you’re going to be able to hold a permanent flat land manual with the front wheel just 1″ above the ground.

(you can on a bmx, because the bike is so much smaller)

I’ve never once met or ridden with anyone who bothers to manual downhill style drops.

Doesn’t mean you can’t. Does it? or is this another one of your “rules”

That’s part of a normal pumping technique!

Not the part being talked about by you though.

More seriously, on a proper, full sized mountain bike, unless you’ve got your stem on backwards, or are wearing a backpack full of concrete, there’s no way you’re going to be able to hold a permanent flat land manual with the front wheel just 1″ above the ground.

Like I already said. You’re wrong!

Seriously!

You amuse me greatly.

but you make it “heavy” for a bit by pumping the bike into the ground so that when it (and you) rebounds, it’s “light” for a bit)

hanging off your bars with your arse as far back as it will go and pushing the pedals away from you has nothing to do with “rebound”. You are effectively using the bars as a pivot and your arse as leverage to push the rear wheel forwards (not into the ground).

I’ve decided you’re a troll.

This thread smells of AWESOME.

Hopefully you haven’t given up on this thread Soap 🙁

Trying to teach the other half something I can do without thinking.
Anything that I’m missing?
Compress front suspension at lip >
As front wheel goes off move body weight back >
Straitening arms until back wheel rolls off.
How did you learn?

Skills course? Not saying you’re a rubbish teacher!! Sometimes its just better getting that input from someone you don’t know and practicing without the audience.

My other half went on a dirt divas jumps and drops course, got a lot out of a female only skills course. Something to consider anyway.

They are on facebook and have a website but I’m sure there are others too.

Most of this second page is bs but the supermarket trolley might be a good shout.
We always try and find a scoopy rock/drop to session but it’s just one element of the technique that’s missing.
Maybe a session with Katy Kard over FoD might be worth it.

back to kerbs.
Try getting her to wheelie off a kerb with emphasis on going off flat to land with both wheels at the same time not mega high wheelies kids with carrier bags on their seats do.
Wheelieing isn’t the important bit at all but at the slow speed she’s comfortable with it’s the only way to stop the front dropping and should automatically make her push the front out and force the bike to stay level using her feet to push aswell.
wheelieing is harder but your up against her psychological fear so don’t tell her it’s harder untill after she can land both wheels flat and is comfortable going fast enough to not need to wheelie and can just push out.

Maybe a session with Katy Kard over FoD might be worth it.

MrsDummy went on a women only skills day. They learnt a bit, but they seem to have spent most of the time bonding over just how much they all hated being coached by their partners. It was apparently the common theme, from peope like MrsD who could barely ride a bike up to people wondering if they could safely do the Megavalanche.

Mrs SOAP may be the exception, of course. But a skills course seems to be very important for women in a way that it isn’t necessarily for men.

🙂

on a proper, full sized mountain bike, unless you’ve got your stem on backwards, or are wearing a backpack full of concrete, there’s no way you’re going to be able to hold a permanent flat land manual with the front wheel just 1″ above the ground.

Depends what you mean by ‘permanent’. If you mean forever then you’re correct. If you mean a few dozen metres then with a bit of practice it’s very possible (I do have long arms but then i have long legs too, what with me being long and all – see fig. 1.).

Fig. 1. Long limbs lean longer and lower

It’s on a wall ridey berm thing but it’s the same technique on the flat, on a bit more harder 😉

Manuals are useful for riding off sketchey tree root drops, like this one in swinley forest next to the mod area.

trying to tell your partner how to do stuff is not the easiest. As you can soon become a know it all.
Here’s a vid of her at BPW.
http://youtu.be/P38i9wsk68k
No trolley action going on.

mtbel – Member

I wouldn’t attempt. I’d achieve.

I want this on a motivational poster for the office. Preferably with a picture of someone (Yoda, maybe?) hucking off a huge cliff on a child’s bike. Can any of the photoshop gurus oblige? [mourns the absence of Jamie]

Here’s a vid of her at BPW.

Does she know you uploaded it in the “comedy” category?

Im in the Jeremy Clarkson school of thought.

SPEEEEEEED

I’ve often wondered why we spend so much time on here talking about kit and so little on how to ride, but I think I get it now. Any discussion between blokes about skill/prowess quickly descends into a willy waving contest.

So here’s my take 🙂

Technically there isn’t much too it. All you need to do is stop the front wheel from falling too far before the back wheel leaves the lip. You’ve can do this in two ways; lots of speed (so it doesn’t have time to drop) or some active movement to hold it up for a while. In practice you tend to do a bit of both and the slower you go the more active you need to be.

Now we can (and no doubt will) spend all day arguing about exactly how one has to move in order to stop the front wheel dropping, but that’s not the point. If you are having to think about how to hold the wheel up then you really shouldn’t be riding off any drop that could hurt if you get it wrong. If you do then odds are that you’ll just freeze at the last moment and end up in hospital.

Like lots of things in mountain biking (and life) whether you think you can or think you can’t you are right. So keep practicing those wheel lifts in situations where it doesn’t matter (puddles, sticks etc) until you are totally confident that you can hold the front up for a bike length at any speed, then just go play on some drops. But, whatever you do, don’t ride anything that you don’t want to ride. Life is too short to spend much of it in rehab.

+1 Roverpig, it only took until page 3 to get some proper advice!

In reference to wysiwyg’s picture, clearly no butt over the back wheel stance on the guy who to all intents and purposes clearly looks like he knows what he is up to, certainly more than most of us.

My previous comment still stands rather than keyboard warriors like us lot, the best approach is to go to someone who teaches this day in day out in an environment where you can progress from gentle drops to larger ones. You know it makes the most sense 🙂

In reference to wysiwyg’s picture, clearly no butt over the back wheel stance on the guy who to all intents and purposes clearly looks like he knows what he is up to, certainly more than most of us.

Dude be stylin bro!!!
Ahem.
I’d wager that bike gets pushed out in front a little before he lands.

That’s how I look at it; the bike gets pushed out in front of me at the lip, I catch up with it in the air then place my front wheel in front of me on the ground. Most of the time….