At some point next year I think I might convert my Longitude to hub gears (it’s currently dinglespeed). My usual tactic is to work out what I want and then patiently sit round waiting to pick up the necessary bits, but in this case I don’t know what I want so I’d better start figuring that out.

I’m not too fussy about gear configuration; I’d like it to cover roughly 24-70″ so a 300% range or thereabouts, but I don’t care about how big the jumps are: even a 3-speed covering that sort of range would be viable.

I tend to like Shimano hubs (LX/SLX level and above) for the durability and serviceability of bearings, although I don’t know how easily serviceable the gear hubs are (the dynamo hubs aren’t trivial). I don’t have time for maintenance these days so fit-and-forget is my only major criterion other than price. That said, it’s unlikely to see heavy use.

Likely to be used with drop levers if possible.

There seem to be quite a few Alfine models and probably some other things I’ve not considered, like Sturmey Archer.

Anyone able to give me a bit of a steer?

Thanks

alfine / nexus 8 is a 300% range. Very reliable hubs and servicing is easy – its an annual oil bath. Drop bar shifters are an issue tho

Jtek do a bar end shifter for alfine

So, the SG-S7000 then?

The Jtek lever looks a bit… hmm… and £80 for a single bar end shifter?! Flinkin’ blip! Mind you, looks like Microshift do one for £40 which is less hair-raising (though if I hadn’t just googled the Jtek I’d probably think £40 for a bar end shifter was a bit steep, hey ho).

I’m not too fussy about gear configuration; I’d like it to cover roughly 24-70″ so a 300% range or thereabouts, but I don’t care about how big the jumps are: even a 3-speed covering that sort of range would be viable.

Something to be aware of is that – with the probable sole exception of Rohloff – your 24″ low gear will require a chainring and sprocket combination which exceeds the manufacturer’s torque limits on the hub. Typically the minimum ratio is something like 2.1:1, e.g. 42/20. The loss of the warranty on the hub might not be a concern to you (especially if it’s second hand), but the limit on the ratios presumably exists for good engineering reasons and implies that ignoring it might shorten the hub lifespan or result in sudden catastrophic failure. I guess the usage and rider might have some impact on that, e.g. a spinner vs a masher and also the total weight of rider, bike and luggage.

That said, I myself am planning on fitting a chainring to a three speed which is below the manufacturer’s limit, and I think that is not too unusual: Dutch Bike Bits sell 33 tooth chainsets here specifically for people who want or need to do it, and I am hoping that the simpler 3 speed hub is better able to tolerate it than a 7 or 8 speed. I believe Malvern Rider has already done this to his Batavus and he has not mentioned any problems when he posted about his bike.

The gear calculator website shows a warning of high torque in red text when you choose unsuitable ratios, for example here with an Alfine 8, so you could have a play with it to see what gear options are available. Obviously choosing a smaller wheel size, e.g. 26″ instead of 29″, will give (slightly) smaller gears.

alfine 8s do not have a torque limit do they? I have run mine on very low gearing with no issues

Something to be aware of is…the manufacturer’s torque limits on the hub.

Good point. Something I knew about (having once bought a Rohloff) but had kind of forgotten about.

A quick google suggests Alfines have a 2.1:1 limit, so, firing up Sheldon, it looks like the minimum on a 29×2.1 tyre will be just over 30″. Perhaps not ideal but should be workable, I think. (The top end is a fairly unnecessary 94″…)

Getting my ideal gear range would mean exceeding the torque limit by about 20%, which is probably a bit much. Maybe.

Thanks.

Something to be aware of is that – with the probable sole exception of Rohloff – your 24″ low gear will require a chainring and sprocket combination which exceeds the manufacturer’s torque limits on the hub

yes, but we’re now half a decade or more into proving that the Shimano torque recommendations are basically bobbins, numerous people have exceeded them massively with basically no warranty issues either. I’m pretty sure the docs says ‘recommended’ anyway, not an actual limit/do not exceed.

I think it’s one of those ‘on paper’ issues that you can basically ignore in the real world unless you’re 16 stone, and hauling a trailer load of crap uphill, standing on a 20in gear, and doing that every day.

Drop bar with Alfine is limited though, it’s either the expensive JTek, find some old versa shifters, go Di2 or use the microshift. FWIW the Microshift shifter is a decent option, it works fine, feels good and longevity wise seems to be acceptable.

The bearings are easy enough to service, not really any worse than a normal C+C hub, and equally as reliable if looked after.

There are some decent options from Sturmey now for disc use, but be careful when comparing that you’re not looking at one of the ones designed for small wheels (the * speed I think?) where 1st gear is direct, and everythign esle is overdrive meaning wacky chainring combos required and less than ideal.

I’d go for the Alfine 8 speed though, very reliable, more so than the 11, and also less picky about setup than the 11, although you do still need to pay attention to decent cabling and adjustment with the 8. As long as the range is sufficient for your use I’d always suggest the 8 over the 11.

(I have an A8 on commuter, A11 on MTB, and had another A8 on MTB)

Right, so, what gearing are people actually running on Alfine 8s?

Mine came on a genesis io id and IIRC as standard was 32 / 18. I ran it as low as 26/20 at the strathpuffer, now running 36/20 on an ebike

Depends on your use….

For my MTB when it had the 8 speed I think I was using a 34t chainring with a 20t sprocket, somewhere there abouts…that was with 26in wheels.

On the Commuter I’ve got 39×18 and that’s fine for urban use with occasional trailer hauling.

Start whacking numbers into the gear calculator and compare with your favourite derailleur setups until you’re happy.

Yeah, I did 😉 34×20 would be near enough spot on for me, I think. Maybe even 36×20. (14 stone masher, FWIW.)

One thing to bear in mind… there are two version so of the 8 speed, and the shifters go in different directions!

The 500/501 models shift ‘backwards’ to normal, ie: the rapidfire levers work like a rapid-rise mech, thumb for harder gear, finger for easier.

The 7000 and 700(11s) models shift ‘normally’.

It’s not so much of an issue with the bar end shifters, but it is worth considering if you’re picky. And I’ve not actually ever tried either the Jtek or MS options on a newer 7000 series hub, I assume they’d work but I don;t know for sure as part of the reason shifter options are limited is that the pull ratio doesn’t match any existing systems. I don’t know if the shift increments are linear though so there’s a slim chance the bar end shifters for a 500/501 series hub might not work correctly with a 7000 if they’re not linear, unless of course it’s non-linear by symmetric if you know what I mean.

Someone hopefully might contribute to confirm if they do work with the 7000 series.

we’re now half a decade or more into proving that the Shimano torque recommendations are basically bobbins, numerous people have exceeded them massively with basically no warranty issues either.

That’s useful to know. I was aware that Rohloff has reduced its minimum ratio to 1.9 based on its experience of its hubs in use over the last 20 years, but Shimano don’t actively publicise the minimum ratios for their hubs in the way that Rohloff does.

The 500/501 models shift ‘backwards’

Gah. This is the sort of obscure nonsense I need to know. Thanks.

It might be worth looking at some of the hub gear/Alfine 8 threads on the Cycling UK forum. One poster on there in particular, Brucey, appears to be the fount of all knowledge concerning hub gears. See for example this thread on internal corrosion in an Alfine and the question of hub seals and lubrication.

Brucey is the fount of knowledge on just about all obscure technical matters 😉 He’s like an unsalaried Chris Juden (of course, CJ himself now fills that role more literally, but somewhat less actively).

Brucey is the fount of knowledge on just about all obscure technical matters

Yes, I was amazed at the level of detail and knowledge in some of those hub gear threads.

Given some of the posts on there about Shimano hub seals (or lack of them) and problems with internal corrosion, I would be very tempted to have a go at drilling a lubrication port in any new Alfine 8 hub that had not yet been built up into a wheel. That seems to be the best way to keep the hub in good condition, i.e. regularly lubricate to flush out water and any small metal particles with the excess lubricant via the (poor/missing) seals, rather than the annual dipping of the innards in an oil bath as recommended by Shimano. One of the reasons why I choose 3 speed instead of 7, was that according to one of Brucey’s posts it should be possible to lubricate it in situ via the hollow axle (in the absence of such a lubrication port in the hub shell), and I need to buy some semi-fluid grease and a syringe at some point to try it.

Yeah, drilling seems sensible as long as it doesn’t end up with swarf in the guts 🙂

Which 3 speed do you have?

Yeah, drilling seems sensible as long as it doesn’t end up with swarf in the guts

Well that’s easy, take the guts out before you drill the shell 😉

Well, yeah, if that was a quick process then I wouldn’t need to drill a hole 😉

it is a quick process to remove the cluster. Takes me about 1/2 an hour to do an oil dunk.

Which 3 speed do you have?

Nexus.

Bez – Member
Right, so, what gearing are people actually running on Alfine 8s?

Currently 28:23, and have done for the last couple of years. That’s on a 26” wheel and this is the 501.
Re. lubrication – I use Rocol Aerospec 100, which is a semi-liquid grease, used in linear actuators in aircraft and as hub reduction gearing lubricant in the Bombardier Q400.
Seems ideal for the Alfine as it stays fluid at low temperatures but it’s not so inclined to migrate past the (crap) seals as something like ATF is.

Does the new 8 speed (with the right way round shifting) have the same cable pull and intervals between gears as the old one? In other words, will my Zerode shifter work with the new version but the right way round?

Does the new 8 speed (with the right way round shifting) have the same cable pull and intervals between gears as the old one? In other words, will my Zerode shifter work with the new version but the right way round?

Gearing ratios and steps between them are the same, but the CJ rotates the other way, so as mentioned above I can’t confirm if the shifter will work, I suspect not as the docs seem to suggest you must use a 500/501 shifter with a 500/501 and a 7000 shifter with a 7000.

I think this is because the steps are non-linear and thus if you run the wrong shifter it’ll miss the index timings for the pawl lifts in the hub, might only end up affecting a couple of gears but could make those gears unusable and damage the hub. If they were linear or are non-linear but symmetric about a centre point then the shifters would be interchangeable

Althoguh Jtek and MS simply list their shifters as ‘8 speed compatible’ so either they haven’t update the description or Shimano are fibbing.

Since I have one of each type of hub I really should check for myself, but I’m really really lazy…

Also – You bugger! I’ve been after a Zerode shifter, or even plate to convert my own SRAM shifter for ages!

amedias – Member
– You bugger! I’ve been after a Zerode shifter, or even plate to convert my own SRAM shifter for ages!

I wish I could help, but I’ve only got the one index plate. If I hadn’t retired from toolmaking I could have replicated the one I have but unfortunately I don’t have the means anymore.
I’ll keep my eyes open and give you a shout if I come across anything.

I think I’m running 34:20 on my full suss 26″ mtb…now I’ve weaned myself off a granny ring its very rare I wish for a lower first gear.

Or perhaps its 34:22, whichever, its way too cold to go fumbling about in the garage to check 😛

Thanks Andy, I do still keep my eyes open but they don’t seem very common 2nd hand either.