I want the carbon HT pro jobbie – went in and spoke to the bod on duty who , when I explained I wanted to pay with the grand cycle to work voucher plus £300 cash, said they can’t do it, has to be the proper value of the bike, £1,000 max.
I then went to 2 LBS’s down the road who were both more than happy to do what I wanted on a Trek and a Cannondale respectively.
Are all Halford’s so strict on this or did I just find the local jobsworth? Seems strange that they are willing to lose £1,300 worth of business when others are’nt?….

We just got cyclescheme where I work and the guidance we were given stated that we could not pay the difference on bikes over £1000. The bike had to be £1000 or less.

So I would say that Halfords are playing by the rules.

I would guess that an LBS will knock up a ‘special’ invoice, stating that the RRP is £1000, and get a bit creative on accounting for the balance.

I think you are right – perhaps with Halfords being a big outlet they have to be more circumspect. Shame though as no-one would know – the alu ht pro looks exactly the same and is a grand – they could invoice for that, I hand over the £300 and ride off on me carbon – job’s a good ‘un 😀

The LBS gaffers both said they would ‘get around it’ no problem, so it looks like they get the money then. Shame as I fancied the carbon but the Trek 8.7 looks good for the same money and the LBS is the winner then – stuff Halfords.

so you pay an extra £300 for a bike you dont actually own?

cyclescheme really doesnt seem that attractive anymore.

so you pay an extra £300 for a bike you dont actually own?

this. If you leave the job or the company goes bust you have to give the bike back.

your LBSs are more amenable to committing fraud than ‘halfrauds’ oh the ironing.

so you pay an extra £300 for a bike you dont actually own?

That’s precisely why Cyclescheme won’t let you top up over the £1000.
You don’t own the bike, you rent it – so if you pay extra, ownership of the bike isn’t clear cut.
I would think the risk of your extra £300 is down to you – if the most likely scenario is that you’ll eventually keep the bike, then you don’t lose anything. If something different happens (ie. you have to give the bike back to your employer) you lose £300.

I’m just about to get one myself and like the fact that you don’t have to buy the bike after the year is up – you can just keep “hiring” it for nothing for another 3 years, then it’s yours.

[edit]Although I know most people on here wouldn’t dream of owning a bike for 4 years!

I think the issue about paying towards it is ownership. Your employer owns the bike for the duration of the lease period.

There is no legal obligation for the employer to offer ownership at the end of the lease period. It could get rather messy if people start contributing to the capital cost of the bike if it ever came to a dispute.

EDIT: Beaten to it above

The company has been going since the 1800’s and is making record profits – check.
I am going to be a lifer there – check.

Others at work who have used the company scheme have never so much as been contacted about the bike at the end of the term – they just keep em. 8)

The £1000 limit is not set by the bike shop..Your employer sets the limit for the bike you choose..

‘Employers who have their own Consumer Credit Licence Category B (consumer hire) can allow employees to request Certificates of a higher value. Alternatively, employers wishing to increase the Cycle to Work Certificate value can apply for their own individual Consumer Credit Licence from the Office of Fair Trading’

Taken from the cycle scheme website, so it’s worth checking with your employer on this, you may be able to apply for a voucher for the full £1300..

We had a memo at work to say new rules are being drawn up, that allow an employee to apply for a voucher up to the gross monthly salary he/she receives.. (so again, if your gross monthly salary is £1300 or above, you can apply for that amount) ..this is something to do with complying with the credit services agreement, I can’t find any link though..

I do see the problem though – I was pretty ignorant of how it works tbf – so it would seem that Halfords are playing it straight and my LBS’s are just being ‘flexible’. I’m happy enough to lay out the extra for the above stated reasons though and I realise it’s at some small risk I suppose. I’ll forget the carbon then.

Thanks Arch – that’s interesting and I will chase that up with my company HR.

Others at work who have used the company scheme have never so much as been contacted about the bike at the end of the term – they just keep em.

ooh, tax fraud too.

This thread is getting more exciting. Do name and shame 🙂

Fraud seems a bit strong

OP’s not trying to steal or benefit any further by the “bending” of the rules. He’ll take the risk should his employer go bust etc he’ll loose his extra £300. but in reality will that happen? probably not no. If something happened with work he’d probably finish payment for the bike in a lump sum and have to pay some of the money he was hoping to save and keep his bike. If they did take it back they’d be better off and the OP would loose out but that’s his risk.

So the “Deal” the op gets wouldn’t be as good as hoped but not over RRP. He won’t gain, the company won’t loose nor will HMRC or the LBS.

Cyclescheme was created by the government to increase cycling as an activity, I’m pretty sure the OP will ride his bike and might even commute on it or another bike.

That’s a damn sight more than the majority of people where I work who just got a bike cheap which has barely been ridden let alone to work!

ooh, tax fraud too.

I don’t think so – they’re just continuing the lease 😉

speaking from bitter experience of the government changing the rules after i’d signed up, your’e better off just buying the bike you want on 0% finance. You pay for it and its yours, rather than you pay for it and then have to pay on a sliding scale of its value to own it

i bought my lapierre in 2010 and it still doesnt belong to me, next year i can pay 5% of its value and then it will legally be mine, absolute joke

Cheers 29’er – I must admit fraud is the last thing on my mind – I just want the best bike for the money I’ve got available (£1,300 with C2W scheme).

I’m not suggesting the LBS or anyone else defrauds the HMRC, I would hope and assume that it is still done ‘above board’ and the only one that stands to lose is me? Or am I being a tad naieve here.

the issue is that your employer is allowing employees to avoid a tax liability by not asking for an ‘end of term’ payment for the bikes.

It’s not a big deal but it does breach the terms of the cycle scheme.

rbr it is a bit of a joke system, but also good when you look at the tax you save on the bike. The only problem I can see with it is if I wanted to sell the bike in the next couple of years. Pretty sure I won’t to be honest, so no probs there. I assume it is designed to stop employees becoming part time bike dealers? snaffling a brand new bike for 40% (or whatever it is) less then selling it straight away for a profit every year?

… you pay for it and then have to pay on a sliding scale of its value to own it

You don’t have to buy it. That’s part of the attraction for me. After a year I stop paying, but still keep the bike.

… you pay for it and then have to pay on a sliding scale of its value to own it

You don’t have to buy it. That’s part of the attraction for me. After a year I stop paying, but still keep the bike.

This. Exactly right.

Anyway – the upshot is I now have a better understanding of where I stand. I might wind my ambitions in a bit and stick with the grand limit – and I may not. That damn Trek leeps luring me on though..grrr… 😡

Unless you’re a +40% tax payer you’ll save very little.

If you want the carbon Boardman, just go a buy it – even Halfords have deals. Or work out exactly what you monthly cost will be and go see an LBS with that number plus £300 for the deposit.

You can make a payment after the 12 month lease period has finished to take full ownership of the bike (18 or 25% of the RRP depending on value)

You won’t save much though overall on the RRP by doing that – about £70 on a £1000 bike.

@ mlucas666 correct

or!

You can leave it on their books for 3 years and pay 5% there’s your saving there> I’m not a serial bike (or job) swapper so maintain and ride my bikes for years.

I can’t really see any down sides to not “technically owning” it in my situation. I don’t think I’ve ever got the receipt out for the bike I didn’t get on cycle scheme and look and it with a warm glow

On a slight tangent, but do you legally own a bike if you purchase with finance, during the finance period?

No – don’t think you do – it’s lease to buy is’nt it? so the bike only becomes legally yours when the final payment is made – up til then you are officially leasing it with an agreement in place to buy it.

A slight tangent, but I know of some ‘big firms’ in London who allow their employee’s up to £5000 on cycle to work, so all the suits can go get posh pinnarello’s and such like.

Mlucas666, yes you do. You’ve just taken a loan out to pay for it.

Robbonzo, if the firm has a consmer credit license, the limit it up to £6k.

Its one of those Naughty banks.

I can’t say “I feel” or the “bikes feel” any different before or after I officially own them.

How many of us actually own our own homes?
I’m pretty sure if I stopped paying the bank each month I would not be living in my home this time next year

sorry but I’m really not getting the issue personally, each to their own though.

Has anyone actually been visited by the Bikes to Work police?

mlucas666 – Member
You can make a payment after the 12 month lease period has finished to take full ownership of the bike (18 or 25% of the RRP depending on value)

You won’t save much though overall on the RRP by doing that – about £70 on a £1000 bike.

Not quite right.

Example

I am a 40% taxpayer.

I got a £1000 bike, and paid 80 odd quid per month before tax.

The 12 months are up and my company has made me an offer. Either I give them the bike back and walk away, or I keep the bike.

If I keep it, HMRC calculate that the bike is now worth 25% of original sale price, and that by giving me the bike the company has conferred a benefit to me which must be taxed. I must therefore pay 40% of 250 (= £100) in tax. They will take this off me by adjusting my PAYE code, so I have saved 40% of the bike’s value, plus some NI contributions,and by the time I’ve paid the extra income tax on the final value I have bought a brand new Cube Peloton Race for £620.00. So, not much saving there.

Someone will now come along and say that you can save more by buying in the end of season sale, but Peloton Race Cubes were sold out three months before they were shipped to the UK, so no one will be discounting any of them by 38% and then giving interest free credit!

A slight tangent, but I know of some ‘big firms’ in London who allow their employee’s up to £5000 on cycle to work, so all the suits can go get posh pinnarello’s and such like.

Not just big firms, my firm buys the bike (of my choice) and I can use it for free 🙂

DezB – Member
… you pay for it and then have to pay on a sliding scale of its value to own it

You don’t have to buy it. That’s part of the attraction for me. After a year I stop paying, but still keep the bike.

your scheme must differ from mine, the purchase price of my bike was divided into twelve so after 12 months i HAD paid for it. then i got told i had to pay 40% of what it was worth to keep it. ergo it is cheaper to buy it on 0% finance

Scapegoat – interesting, but you are 40% taxpayer so the system will obviously be more beneficial to you as a result. I was referring to the basic rate which is more relevant to a lot of people.

I’m unclear as to why the market value is factored into your PAYE code. Normally it’s a single payment to secure ownership and avoid becoming a Benefit in Kind.

mlucas666 – Member
Scapegoat – interesting, but you are 40% taxpayer so the system will obviously be more beneficial to you as a result. I was referring to the basic rate which is more relevant to a lot of people.

I’m unclear as to why the market value is factored into your PAYE code. Normally it’s a single payment to secure ownership and avoid becoming a Benefit in Kind.

Just got the email the other day. HMRC calculate that I owe them £100 in tax and will adjust my code so I can even pay that off over the year. I hate to use phrases like “I won’t even miss it” as that makes me sound arrogant, but I’ve got to admit it’s a pleasant surprise given that I’d expected to pay the £100 out of December’s paypacket.