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That old VOX organ guitar of mine has comfortably outstripped inflation.
The buying price was way too low. And I think the selling price was way too high. Got to have got it right for once.
@plumber have you found a second L2M yet?
Why does age make any difference?
This is true. The guitar I spent £120 on 25 years ago (MIM Strat) is worth three times that now.
Also true that what it's worth is a hypothetical figure and only really important if you're looking to sell or if you need to replace it. I have a Rickenbacker 330 that's probably worth quite a bit more than I paid for it, but it's going nowhere in the foreseeable...
Why does age make any difference?
I'm feelingless like I need enough gear to fill out the NEC these days.
I have the Boogie still in storage but a Boogie MkIV with the 1x12 EV has to be loud to get the power amp distortion.
I should sell that now they're going for silly money and buy another small valve amp.
My 25 watt valve combo is loud enough for most gigs I'll ever amble through again and if I need more a powered speaker like the Line6 L2m will more than suffice.
More often than not I have to turn down my 20W THR if anyone else is in the house trying to do other stuff.
TBH really a Line6 Helix or Helix LT with a powered FRFR speaker is pretty much the ideal on any level other than old school nostalgia for me.
Guitars are different though. Really want one of those mega cheap Harley Benton Teles to play with. They seem to be the current equivalent to entry level Yammy Pacifica's back in the late 80s.
EDIT. Just trying to think of any indoor pub gig I've made noise at over the last 20 years where the DT25 at full volume wouldn't be pushing the levels of what is legally acceptable with the rest of the band making sound as well.
I've considerably slimmed down my gigging rig over the years. Used to be such a hassle, there was always a buzz, or a dodgy lead.
Now I have a smallish 1 x 12 cab, small head (and I'm looking at those Vox MV50s, so even smaller!), one guitar, and a Tech21 Flyrig instead of a pedal board.
Especially now as I play keys and guitar in a band, so in addition to the guitar stuff I have a stand, keyboard, laptop, and a few other bits.
I even went for a while in my old band of DI-ing a Line 6 Pod and relying on a monitor for stage sound, which was great 90% of the time, but not so good if the venue's monitoring was crap 🙁
I had one gig at a large Bristol venue, in front of about 3000 people where the monitoring was so bad no-one could hear what was going on. It was intensely embarrassing, and I may have told the sound engineer he was a see you next tuesday. Not my finest moment!
I'm a sax player (who guitars on the side) and I can state with authority that no band member other than the guitarist likes a big guitar amp 🙂 if you really insist on a amp with a ton of headroom then please don't crank the amp during the gig (and be careful with the volume on the guitar also) because it's the reason that the horn players overblow and the keyboard player can't hear anything out of their monitor and the singer loses their voice..
[and breathe] I know that lots of guitarists appreciate this too, but ThatPedalShow do create a false position using SuperReverbs and TwoRock 50w and Plexi's and cranked AC30s even though they caveat it during the videos.
Sometimes the monitor mix is a nightmare on gigs but often as not it's a result of some kit issue (dodgy patch bays, those unintuitive digital desks that are suited for DJ in a bar not a proper venue, worn out wedges, odd acoustics in the venue that create deadspots) rather than just an engineer that is rubbish. The majority of engineers I've met are decent, hardworking and underpaid.
[EDIT]
Ajatom that's not a pop at you, just a general thought
Sometimes the monitor mix is a nightmare on gigs but often as not it’s a result of some kit issue (dodgy patch bays, those unintuitive digital desks that are suited for DJ in a bar not a proper venue, worn out wedges, odd acoustics in the venue that create deadspots) rather than just an engineer that is rubbish. The majority of engineers I’ve met are decent, hardworking and underpaid.
I know that, I've done a fair amount of sound engineering in the past, including a spell as the monitor engineer for a band.
I've had to use my fair share of shite kit!
I know quite a few people who still work (well, they've not worked for the last year:-( ) in live sound, and most of them know their stuff and are really conscientious.
It's the ones who can't be arsed that annoy me.
We played at Boomtown a few years ago on one of the medium size stages (1500ish crowd) and the engineer appeared to be having a nap during our gig!
Well, fitted my Brandonwound Wide-range pups in the Tele deluxe. The Brandonwounds are lovely. Gonna pop a 500k pot on the bridge, and a 0.022 cap to brighten it up a little.
Still can't get the fret buzz away with a normal/low action.
I get fret buzz from the 9th fret up.
I've a little relief, and a high action at the saddle, and the action at the first fret is about 0.7mm.
I've levelled the frets twice now - and wondering if I'm doing it wrong!
I'm getting the fingerboard totally level, as measured by a notched engineering ruler, and levelling with a levelling beam from Crimson, with some 350 grit double-sided taped to the beam, and finished with 2500 grit on the other side.
Then polished with 3000 - 10,000 mesh, and a final polish with felt on a dremel.
What could cause the frets past the 9th to be higher than each other?
Rickon,
I'm not an expert, but is there a neck shim in there? might be worth taking it out if it is, otherwise I'd take it to a luthier. I'm not an expert so might not be 100% correct
Got the wee Vox MV50 today.
Soundwise it's pretty decent. Sounds great with my Les Paul, a bit meh with the Strat.
A 3 way tone control might have helped.
Volume wise it's definitely got some grunt. Plugged it into one half of my 4x12 at 8 ohms (so 25W output) and it would be loud enough to be heard over a drummer. And a metal drummer at that, none of you namby-pamby stuff!
Not quite sure if the sound quality holds up at high volume.
Doesn't clean up well with the volume pot on the Les Paul. Neck pickup is a P90 with a tone rolloff mod on it so normally works really well.
Will do some further testing to see how it takes pedals and need to try it out in a jamroom too.
Will also try running the line out into the power amp section of my Orange OR100...
So, potential is there.
£79 though!!!!
I get fret buzz from the 9th fret up.
I’ve a little relief, and a high action at the saddle, and the action at the first fret is about 0.7mm.
Is the buzzing worse when you bend a sting. Has the neck got a twist in it? When you measure you action do you capo at the first fret and measure the action at the 13th? I have 1.4mm on the top E measured that way and it looks huge with the fingerboard camber but in reality it is quite low.
It sounds like you have done everything right and I’m at a loss to suggest anything more than the excellent advise already offered here by others. Maybe that action at 1st first fret is a bit high, mine is probably a lot lower than that, but it is an LP style guitar...
Actually, thinking about it what happens when you capo at the first fret? Can you lower the action and get i5 feeling better? If so it sounds like it could be that nut being a bit high.
Got the wee Vox MV50 today
Do did mine 😎
£79 is a proper bargain imo. Even if I don't like it (and I do so far) I'll be able to sell it on at no loss.
The gain on full is really heavy, and running it through my 1 x 12 8 ohm cab, it's definitely loud enough to gig with.
Surprisingly good clean tone on low gain/high volume too. The single tone control gives a good range, and the mid boost on the back is a nice idea.
Sounded really good with my homebuilt Musicman/Tele mashup with it's active EMG pickups.
Tele wasn't quite as nice, sounded ok, but they're quite cheap pickups, and heavy gain isn't a Tele's forte anyway.
Next up is trying out my PRS, and my Tech21 Flyrig 5 for some reverb and see how it sounds playing with the tone and gain on that.
Also I'll try it through my 2x12 cabinet, which (I think) is 2 X 8ohm speakers wired in parallel, so 4ohms. Which should be very loud!
Which model amps did you go to? I like the idea of the boutique one as I mentioned above.
I got the high gain one.
Gain range is actually very usable across the whole spectrum.
Portability is ridiculous:
The power supply is bigger!
I wonder if any of the good PSUs like Voodoo Labs or whatever could power it.
Actually, thinking about it what happens when you capo at the first fret? Can you lower the action and get i5 feeling better? If so it sounds like it could be that nut being a bit high.
I reckon you could be right. I've got a couple of spare tusq nuts, I'll sand down the current one and see if I can lower the saddle action and increase the relief a little.
I'm keen to get it right, not just so I have a Tele that plays awesome, as well as sounds awesome, but so I develop my skills!
Have you checked the frets are in properly and none are lifting?
If you have a fret loose it can get pushed down when leveling then pop up again after.
a feeler guage is handy to test by trying to slip it between the shoulder of the fret and the fretboard
What could cause the frets past the 9th to be higher than each other?
Do you mean the frets get taller as measured from the fret board or do you mean the action gets lower? If it's the former that's really odd. If it's the latter it's the angle the neck is set at and that's easily fixed with paper shims as suggested a few times over the past few pages. I don't know if this helps but I've measured the action of the fat E string on all the frets as best I can by eye with a steel ruler on a Tele with a 10-12 compound radius neck. Played normally it's fine but dig in hard and it will buzz:
.5mm
.6
.7
.8
1.0
1.2
1.3
1.4
1.5
1.7
1.8
1.9
1.9
2.0
2.1
2.1
2.2
2.3
2.4
2.5
2.6
I've also got a Strat which is really low at 1.7 at the 12th and only 1.8 at 21, but it isn't buzz free. Raising the saddles .5mm (which will raise .25mm at the 12th) is on my to do one day list
Edit: Having measured I realise that the Tele would benefit from tipping the neck back a tad. The next time I restring it I'll add a slip of paper so there's less difference between the 12th and 22nd. It's obviously warped slightly since I built it.
Thanks Edukator - I can't find the talk about using paper shims - where would I be shimming?
More than willing to give it a go!
In the neck pocket. When everything else is set up correctly - nut height, neck relief and action at the 12th - the action between the 12th and 21st fret will increase only marginally. If it decreases (which can cause buzzing) you need to tip the neck forward so add a 1cm wide slip of paper in the open end of the neck pocket. If it increases too much (which result in an unnecessarily high action on the last frets) add a 1cm wide slip of paper in the closed end of the pocket. I've even had to use cardboard from a Kellogs box on one guitar which was way out.
IIRC corrctly you can buy wedge shaped wooden shims from Stew Mac, I've always made do with bits of paper. Stew Mac did a vid I think I'll have a look.
Edit: I haven't watched the vid so have no idea if the guy is using them correctly but you'l get the idea:
Having never had this problem as I've been lucky with bolt on necks I had to draw it out on a bit of paper (AKA Adobe Illustrator) to get the geometry clear in my head. It made a few things I'd heard quoted recently make a lot more sense. Every day is indeed a school day.
Paper shins should indeed be your friend. It wierd how extra neck relief can make the problem worse not better as you lower the action to compensate for the extra neck curve. Ita all interconnected.
The mini Vox amp worked really well with my boost, drive and fuzz pedals. A pleasant surprise!
Excellent. That's one of the few things the THRii doesn't do well. Light overdrive is ok, anything more is just wrong.
Now then, guitarists.
I haven't weighed in on this thread before (I don't think...) as I'm sort of a lapsed guitarist, having pretty much just done the odd bit of acoustic strumming here and there for the past decade or so.
But. My mate is getting married later this year, and for his "stag do" he had me sit in on a jam session with his band. I had to rebuild my old Squire Strat, and borrow an amp and a fuzz pedal. And it was joyous! Proper grin-inducing wonderfulness...
So I'm quite keen to get set up for electric guitar again.
First order of business is an amp of some kind. I'm quite space constrained, so I like the look of the Orange Micro Dark as a headphones-based practice machine which could scale up to driving a cab for jamming volumes easily enough.
Any experiences of this amp? Or alternatives? I like the idea of having some tube-ness in there, and would like something that will play with pedals...
Ok!
I've sanded down my tusq nut so I now have about 0.4mm at the first fret, consistently. And I've adjusted the saddle so it's a low as it can go without much buzz.
It's much much better. Obviously, intonation is better at the first!
Thanks Edukator - I should have listened right at the start.
What I've noticed is that my strings incrementally go from 0.4mm to 2.25mm at the 12th then they stay pretty much at 2.25mm up to the 21st.
Is the paper shim gonna help with that? have I just got my levelling wrong? Or should I dial in more relief?
I feel like I'm learning, so that's a good thing!😆
Next to no change between the 12th and 21st is normally fine. It certainly won't cause buzzing when you're playing near the nut and with the action at 2.25 should be OK all the way up. If the buzzing gets worse as you move up you could try a single thickness of A4 paper out of your printer at the open end of the neck pocket and then tighten the truss rod or lower the saddles so you get the same action at the 12th (Eddiebaby is right when he says that everything interacts)- I cut a 1cm wide strip and then use a hole punch so it locates on the screws. Careful when you tighten the screws, the originals in Squiers and Mexican Fenders aren't very good and strip easily - I systematically replace them.
When you're looking for where a string is likely to touch and buzz bear this in mind:
Any experiences of this amp? Or alternatives? I like the idea of having some tube-ness in there, and would like something that will play with pedals…
See the posts from @yourguitarhero above. That wee vox amp he has looks superb.
First order of business is an amp of some kind. I’m quite space constrained, so I like the look of the Orange Micro Dark as a headphones-based practice machine which could scale up to driving a cab for jamming volumes easily enough.
I love Orange amps and bought one of these as a backup.
I couldn't get rid of the terrible mains hum.
Even had it checked by an amp tech, no joy.
Sounded decent and properly loud, but none of my other amps have done this.
Tried it at a friend's house and the hum was just as bad.
Thanks folks...
@oldtennisshoes that does look pretty interesting too! No effects loop is a bit of a bummer, but if I could find one for 80 quid it'd be a no-brainer I think 🙂
@RustySpanner ugh that doesn't sound massively encouraging. I guess it's possibly a bad unit (such things happen I suppose) but still...
No worries.
Mine was £80.00 secondhand from my local shop.
They took it back and sent it to their tech, who couldn't replicate the problem and pronounced it perfect.
I just took a refund.
I'll try another at some point, because it was a nice piece of kit.
Neither of my other Orange amps had the same issue.
Good luck!
but if I could find one for 80 quid it’d be a no-brainer I think
It's the high gain one, but with the gain turned right down, and volume up it has a nice tone. Not fully clean, but close.
It's a simple little amp, but the controls all have an audible effect.
Gain on full is hilariously heavy 🤘
https://www.kennysmusic.co.uk/vox-mv50-high-gain-compact-guitar-head?source=googleps&gclid=Cj0KCQjwk4yGBhDQARIsACGfAetJaGClJcoPXcQovv7_wOz9u1XfsQ74980vuIOqqZK3b6TaE704jsIaAskSEALw_wcB
/blockquote>Thank you for this! I was scratting around on ebay and not getting anything under 120 quid or so.
I'd forgotten how addictive the electric guitar is. I was playing it unplugged today and trying to make 3 semitone bends with the big fat 11s on it 🙂
So, looking at the MV50 (and now being picky...) it's frustrating it doesn't have an effects loop.
Especially with the high gain version I imagine running a delay/reverb into it won't be great 😐
I wonder whether it would possible to hack one in?
This picture isn't great (I think it's a promo shot showing off the nu-tube thing) but the fact that the tube is on its own board suggests that splicing into the circuit between the preamp and power amp might be doable 🤔
Of course, whether I need another electronics project to ignore/neglect is another matter.
Of course. Someone on YT has done it already.
Rock and roll 🤟
If anyone is looking for a speaker to put into a cab I have a spare 50w 8ohm for free, collect from Manchester.
50W Alnico Gold Celestion 8ohm?
So then, loopers. What about them? I quite fancy one, maybe a band in a box sort of thing to mess about with.
They're brilliant. The basic TC Ditto does more than enough for most folk.
Loopers rock and I’d recommend one highly.
I’ve a Boss RC3, and have since bought an RC10 and a Digitech trio+ for “band in a box” type stuff.
I’ll be selling the Trio+ shortly as whilst it’s great I prefer the RC10. One isn’t necessarily “better” than the other, they’re slightly different things.
As above, plus a few loopers come with drum loops or at least a metronome which I think is worth having as a practice tool.
I’ve got an RC-3 and it’s fine but I wish the drum loops were better. There’s only a few loops and the sound quality is not perfect. But better than nothing.
I’ve got an RC-3 and it’s fine but I wish the drum loops were better.
Thats why I bought an RC-10. Basically it’s a good quality, flexible drum machine and a looper that happen to like be in the same box and can be used independently, but can also be linked & synced.
The drums can also be output via a different jack to the loop so you can have nice clear drums not affected by the guitar amp - either to Hifi speakers or the amps Aux In to bypass the pre amp and effects etc.
@edukator er no, it's a Black Star own brand one, like a vintage30, 12in unused as it came with an HT5R, I think someone bought it to make an extension cab and never wired it up
Loopers are a good idea, I would recommend a secondhand ditto as there are loads about, it will teach you how to make a loop by hitting start and stop right on the first beat of the bar, once you have that down you can figure out what to get next as they can get complex
If anyone is looking for a speaker to put into a cab I have a spare 50w 8ohm for free, collect from Manchester.
@edhornby I'm sure I could give it a loving home if it's still available? I'm up in Ramsbottom so probably not a million miles away.
Cool, thanks all for the replies 😎
I’ll be selling the Trio+ shortly
Hmm... interesting... want to PM me some details?