Gravel – All City, Bombtrack or Surly?

My last post was about a 29er conversion, and according to your answers, I realised that a proper gravel bike would suit my needs better. I mean, I’d like to have one bike which I can carry on my car’s roof, and I can use it on the roads, path and even trails of the Dolomites, Alps… or just for everyday training without terrain limits. I have a MTB, CX, and road bike too, for racing purposes. But I have lower back problems, and don’t want to use skinny tires off-road, and the ages of road racing on high pressure gone for mee, too.

I’ve found three steel frames for my purposes: All City Monsoon, Bombtrack Hook EXT, Surly Midnight Special… any thought about that? Or other suggestions?

Thanks!

Steel you say: https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Rondo/HVRT-ST-Disc-Steel-Road-Bike-2019/K0UP

Don’t know about All City, but Bombtrack and Surly always look expensive for what you get

All-City Gorilla Monsoon

Bike review: Bombtrack Hook EXT

Surly Midnight Special – Modern Classic

Might help you out! 🙂

Have you saw Ribbles steel offering. Looks a nice bike to me. Good value too for the complete bikes.

I have always though surly were a but pricey and heavy for what you get.

Depends why the ones you mention suit you. Specialized have the Sequoia and AWOL, Marin do the Nicasio and Four Corners. Genesis have the Croix de Fer and fugio. Ridgeback have the panorama. Some of those might need different tyres but stock bikes rarely come perfect right out of the box.

The Surly seems quite different from the other two to me.

The All City thing looks like a proper monstercross bike, given it takes massive tyres (650bx2.4″s in the pic!)

The Bombtrack may be quite similar, clearance for proper MTB tyres again, may be a bit lighter with the carbon fork.

But the Surly Midnight special is far more of on-road orientated from what I can tell. Sharper geometry, with a steep head-angle on larger sizes (73deg on the 56cm frame) with shorter rake.

#cromolyolly had some good suggestion there, that’ll likely be a lot cheaper. You could add the Kona Rove to that list too, and the Jamis thing (Renegade may be).

Thanks for the suggestions!

I’m thinking about trying the more cushioned 650 tires, but I’d like the good old 700, too… 😄

These frames are in the same price range, aren’t these?

… and I could use my existing 29er wheelsets in the Surly Midnight Special, with the adapter for the frame.

No more AWOL, Specialized have dropped it for 2019.

Shame, it was a much more versatile bike than the Sequoia, cheaper and didn’t have any stupid ‘standards’.
Pretty much the same weight too.

Great mix of practical finishing kit as well.

Does it have to be steel? By the time you’ve stuck some fat tyres on it you’re not going to feel any benefit from a little deflection in the frame and it opens up your choice considerably

I have a surly karate monkey, I wouldn’t call it heavy tbh, although my arms may have been ‘recalibrated’ by lifting an ebike.
I haven’t spent a fortune on lightweight parts either, so i just reckon it’s not actually heavy.
The frame and fork are extremely well finished ime, and I’ve been involved in the bike trade for decades.
Definitely not cheap though, not even close.

Oh, yeah, good call Lego. The Kona Rove is a nice bike – maybe up there in terms of what you get for the price but nice. There’s a couple of other Konas that could fitting the bill to. Iirc Norco do a steel Search.
Didn’t know that about the AWOL, that’s a shame.

To the OP. Most of the I ones I mentioned will take a 700 by mid 40s or more, it was one of my parameters – which means they will take a 650 by 2 and a bit? In fact I think someone on here has a Panorama with 650 x 2 ish on it.

My personal favorite, and one I’d like to own is the Croix de Fer. Relatively good value for a 725 Reynolds tubing and apparently well-regarded.

+1 for Kona Rove ST. Add a dropper & it’s surprisingly capable off road.

You wouldn’t believe what I rode to get here.

You’ll just have to use your imagination.
Stupid links. Give us back the preview button.

… but if you want steel then this looks like good value

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/rondo-ruut-st-gravel-bike-2018/rp-prod159197

By the time you’ve stuck some fat tyres on it you’re not going to feel any benefit from a little deflection in the frame and it opens up your choice considerably

Agree, I can’t even tell with narrow tyres but careful with that sort of comment as you will now get the princess and the pea types upset.

Comfy, all day, do-it-all bike you say?

Have a look at the Genesis Vagabond. Comes with 700c X 2.1 tyres, and will take up to about 2.3 on the rear and a 3″ (I tried!) on the front.

With road wheels/tyres on I’ve done 100mile sportives, and with a set of 42c gravel tyres on it’s perfect for green lanes, back roads and general exploring.

The kit it comes with is solid and hard-wearing, if not overly light or exciting. But I got mine as an end of year deal for £750, so it makes an excellent base for upgrading.

Soma Wolverine?

According to your answers and my searches, there are 3 ways (if I’d like steel frame, at least):

1., Bombtrack Hook Ext or Rondoo Ruut ST: All the two frames have similar geomerty, tyre clearance. These are on/off-road frames, we could name them gravel frames.

2., All City Monsoon or Soma Wolverine: Let’s call them ‘monster cross’. Bigger tyre clearance, but classic look.

3., Genesis Vagabond, Salsa Fargo: Drop bar mountain bikes for rough terrain. They are a little bit sluggish on road, and maybe looks a little bit odd with skinny tyres. (I mean narrower than 2.0″)

Most of the I ones I mentioned will take a 700 by mid 40s or more, it was one of my parameters – which means they will take a 650 by 2 and a bit?

You can’t assume that. Just because a frame has sufficient radial clearance doesn’t mean it has 2” lateral clearance.

By the time you’ve stuck some fat tyres on it you’re not going to feel any benefit from a little deflection in the frame and it opens up your choice considerably

Absolutely true, although it makes a difference when it comes to the fork. I’ve yet to ride a carbon fork which has the flex of a curved steel fork like the Surlys.

You can’t assume that. Just because a frame has sufficient radial clearance doesn’t mean it has 2” lateral clearance.

That’s true – there might be a tiny percentage of bikes that won’t but due to design tendencies it is tiny so I’m not really assuming, I’m taking an informed guess. Plus for the ones I mentioned, I’ve either measured or read of people who have done it.

? By the time you’ve stuck some fat tyres on it you’re not going to feel any benefit from a little deflection in the frame

I used to subscribe to the theory but I’m not so sure anymore. Obviously it varies from bike to bike but I can feel a difference between some. Chainstay design/construction? Fork feel? Not sure. Remember we are talking about rigid forks here too.

I’ve got one of these on order, seems to tick all your boxes! Great reviews and pretty good value too.

First Look: Fearless Vulture frameset

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I’ve just read the reviews on the fearless and it looks a right bargain. Only I own my Vaya I’d buy one, the Ivory Frameset with tan bartape and seat with tan wall tyres would look lovely

572mm top tube in the largest size… really? If it weren’t for the Americans I’d have nothing to ride.

The Kona Rove is a nice bike

CRC have alloy ones at close to half price at the moment.

Most of the I ones I mentioned will take a 700 by mid 40s or more, it was one of my parameters – which means they will take a 650 by 2 and a bit?

You can’t assume that. Just because a frame has sufficient radial clearance doesn’t mean it has 2” lateral clearance.

Have to say I agree with Bez there.

My Genesis CDF (2017 or summit) clears a 43mm 700c tyre comfortably, but chainstay clearance for a 650b isn’t any better and is possibly less than for a 700c (because the chainstays are dimpled where a 700c fits but not closer to the axle). Same story with an older Kona Rove I had some years back, although the newer ones are designed for 650b+

According to your answers and my searches, there are 3 ways (if I’d like steel frame, at least):

1., Bombtrack Hook Ext or Rondoo Ruut ST: All the two frames have similar geomerty, tyre clearance. These are on/off-road frames, we could name them gravel frames.

2., All City Monsoon or Soma Wolverine: Let’s call them ‘monster cross’. Bigger tyre clearance, but classic look.

3., Genesis Vagabond, Salsa Fargo: Drop bar mountain bikes for rough terrain. They are a little bit sluggish on road, and maybe looks a little bit odd with skinny tyres. (I mean narrower than 2.0″)

All that makes sense.

Personally I’d not consider anything in part 3 of that list. They are basically rigid 29er MTB’s with drop bars, so they’ll be slow on the road and if you have back problems you may as well just go for a normal flat bar 29er, which will be more comfortable offroad.

The others all look great, especially that Rondo… Mostly it’s just a balance between speed offroad and on. Provided you get something that can clear a 700x40mm or 650x50mm tyre you should be fine all-round.

My Genesis CDF (2017 or summit) clears a 43mm 700c tyre comfortably, but chainstay clearance for a 650b isn’t any better and is possibly less than for a 700c (because the chainstays are dimpled where a 700c fits but not closer to the axle). Same story with an older Kona Rove I had some years back, although the newer ones are designed for 650b+

Same with my Crossrips and, IIRC, also my Disc Trucker.

Frustratingly I have some hubs and 650b rims I could build up and test it out, but the cost of adding spokes and tyres is a bit too much for an experiment that looks unlikely to be successful 🙂

the rondo is a very nice machine but have a close look at the geometry and sizing – it’s very similar to the NS RAG+ (same company really) that I have which I’d say is a bit more road/cx oriented with a lowish stack height but room for fat tyres.

If you’re willing to move beyond steel then you could look at something like the Whyte Friston and Merida Silex which are more upright – dare I say progressive, MTB inspired designs.

I’ve always liked the look of these:

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

I’m personally leaning towards the Midnight Special as I have quite a bit of road riding to do before I get to some sustained off-road fun, so I’d like something that will get me there, relatively, quickly. Add to that the possibility of fitting some big, supple rubber and it seems, to me, quite appealing. I love the look of the Vulture, Monsoon, Straggler, Vagabond et el but either only being able to fit 700×45 or MTB chainsets puts me off.

The Bombtrack Hook EXT is also tempting but is even more expensive than the Midnight Special (and I’m not sure that I would ever use all those mounts…)

Hook a bit pricey? Oh hello….

Sale!

Also a good place to get a Midnight Special. 😉

Seeing as this thread’s been resuscitated, further to my comment above:

the cost of adding spokes and tyres is a bit too much for an experiment that looks unlikely to be successful

The combination of a £12 box of spokes on eBay and a pair of £5 tyres from Planet X resolved that conundrum, and if there’s anyone out there who gives two hoots about it, it turns out you can indeed get 48mm 650b tyres in a Crossrip:

View this post on Instagram

Of possible interest to @andrewdiprose if no-one else, here’s a pair of 650b tyres in a Crossrip. 48mm Kenda Komforts (purely because at £5 each they made for a cheap test) which measure up true to size on the WTB STi 23 rims. Enough clearance front and back; mudguards obviously no problem; BB lowered from 280mm to 270mm when compared to the 700c Kenda Happy Mediums (32mm on XM319s) which happened to be on there beforehand. Now I’m in a even more of a pickle as to how this ridiculously versatile bike ought to be built up.

A post shared by Bez (@mashing53) on Apr 13, 2019 at 8:08am PDT

Seeing as this thread’s been resuscitated,

Just to continue the update I found the reference to 650bs on a Croix de fer:. It was a picture of a 2014 with 650b and 2″ panaracer comets and a guy who fit 2.25 mtb tyres in but rubbed too much to ride. He was going to try 2″ but never updated the thread.

Interesting thread as these type of bikes do suit my riding.
I am a massive Surly fan and really wanted the MS but budget / VFM kicked in when I saw the Ribble CGR 725 at the London Bike Show.
I ordered a CGR on the back of that. Only covered 40 miles so far and it has ticked the boxes, all except the ‘cool brand factor’ but that lives in my mind as a box to tick, others might not have that burden.

Brother MehTeh